sahtt

Ever since I bought this car 6-9 months ago, it has had a slight starting problem that has progressively got worse. During this entire time, I have put less than 1,200 miles on it because of it. This includes two round trips from houston/austin, which is 1/2 of the miles alone. It started as only a warm start issue. It's been in 3 different shops over 5 times, all lexus specialists, and recieved many different treatments, and lots of money and TONS of my own time down the drain. All seem to work temporarily, but within a couple days its back to its old self. I've studied these issues intensely and still haven't figured it out. It has completely ruined my experience with this car. I'm a financially independent undergrad student and thank God my motorcycle has kept trucking with 30k miles now. It is not fun driving an hour and a half to work in full leathers in 100+ degree heat in Houston, much rather be in my Lexus but I can't afford to have it towed so it mainly sits. I couldn't be morally sound and dump this car on someone else knowing it may leave them stranded, nor can I sell it at 1/2 what it is worth by being totally honest about it.

Condition: Wouldn't start warm, sometimes up to 2-3 hours. It just cranks and cranks but won't start. Randomly wouldn't start, even when cold, usually after sitting a couple days. Runs like butter once it starts, and otherwise has 0 issues besides normal wear/tear.

What I've done, some directly for this, some just hoping to catch something a little off, some just for maint. since the car isn't moving anyways->

Full timing belt job, water pump, cam seals, crank seal, idler pullies, the works
Fuel/air filter
Replaced fuel pump twice. That's right, an aftermarket brand, supposedly still the problem, so I put an OEM in there.
Redid some wiring around the crank position sensor as well as 'reorganize' the rest of any exposed wiring [done by shop].
New battery, new terminals though one doesn't fit too great.
Had the entire electrical system checked piece by piece and everything was "perfect" except the fuel pump wouldn't pull any amps. Replaced with aftermarket. Ran a whole two times then back to the shop. Wouldn't pull amps again, replaced with OEM. Drove it back to college, won't start now. I did all the above myself with minimal tools [no power], no garage, no training, just out of desperation and determination. Probably other things as well that I can't recall.

I have spent an easy 150 man hours on this car and a weeks worth of nights working DEEP into the night on this car with almost 0 return. Several days covered in gas. Hours bent over getting in my apartment complex getting an unwanted sun tan.

I just bought an acura integra, 1 owner, checked out by a reputable shop, and it started running on 3 cylinders the day after I bought it. I can only hanlde so much. The acura I can deal with, but I need to get this Lexus fixed and sold before I set it on fire or blow up a blood vessel in my brain.

My problem is I don't know who to trust in order to take care of this issue. It's hard to show them and I bet they'll just try to find something* wrong to fix and charge me. I have a sick feeling in my stomach it is on the brink of unfixable and undiagnosible. One of the shop's owner personally worked on my car and was sure it was the fuel pump, which obviously isn't the case. I have much more confidence in him then the often slightly moronic techs at the dealership. My only hope there is that they've experienced a problem like this before. I completely realize it's just a machine and spark/air/fuel, but it isn't that simple when you actually start tearing things apart.

Anything I can do myself? Tow it to the dealer [I've already had nearly 200 in tow charges, an unbelieveable waste of money to someone paying for his own school and working for 10.00 an hour 65 hours/week during the summer] and see what's the most expensive thing they can find somewhat broken to fix? Crash it into a pole [jk I have liability nor do I suggest insurance fraud]? Sell as is for a massive loss and be miserable for 2-3 years? I'm only asking 5400 for the car [theoretically fixed 100%] and would take 5k. It has 134k miles, great body, interior, all maint/fluids done, high end mich's in good shape, and thorough maint. records for the last 7 years.

Argh!

Och

iTrader: (3)

could it be that u just have two new yet defective fuel pumps? can you exchange either one and see if that helps?

Och

iTrader: (3)

Now I'm just guessing, but make sure you get spark. Also, when your car is not starting, try and remove your spark plugs. Maybe they are soaked in gas and you need to dry them out. Of course if they are getting soaked in gas like this means that u have problems with fuel delivery system.

From what you are saying, I dont really get it, do you have two new fuel pumps, and you've swapped them around several times, and each one works for a few days? Or do you keep buying a new one every time?

sahtt

The last shop I took it to said the problems were caused by the fuel pump. I first bought a new aftermarket. It worked a couple times, then the car wouldn't start. Towed it back to the shop, said it was the fuel pump 'still'. Replaced with a new OEM one. Drove it a few times. Now after driving the car from Houston to Austin, it won't start again. It's supposedly a fuel issue.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like you've got 2 defective pumps

crazimofo

yeah definitly got a fuel problem issue on your hands...
something might be causing the fuel pumps to go bad? just a thought...
dont sell it...you narrowed it down already..

RA40

iTrader: (6)

No error codes?

Has any of the shops checked the fuel pressure prior to replacing and after replacing the pump?

Is the ignition okay? Ignitor, coils, wires, plugs? On a past car, when the ignitor dies, all the engine will do is crank. Check the wiring harness to the ignitor and coils for a loose connection or faulty wire in this loom. To check the ignitor you'll need a multimeter. I don't rceall it off-hand but the service manual will have the procedure and it is pretty easy to verify if it is okay.

Check the MAF and throttle position sensors. Lots of issues can be had with the MAF sensor because this all relays back to the FI pooter and ECU.

Check that each fuse to the ECU's (located in the engine bay) is seated properly. Check the ones inside the car too.

Are all the lights on the car working properly?

sahtt

I don't have a multimeter or a service manual for this particular car, but I probably should, I just need to find them cheap. The shop said it was a fuel issue and that I was getting spark. I replaced the fuel pump myself, the shop wanted 375 dollars labor and would only use "their" oem pump they charged me 200-300 for. I did it myself for 119 dollars. The fuel pressure was the issue that got them to check the entire system, where the fuel pump was supposedly at fault. Speaking of, does anyone have a DETAILED write-up of how to bypass the fuel pump ECU? I could never find the old thread.

I don't think the MAF or TPS is messed up given it drives flawlessly when running, but it's worth checking. My main concern is let's say I buy a good multimeter and a service manual, I have almost no spare time as is; but I may not have a choice. I'll check all the fuses too. All lights work properly besides the cluster needles will flicker sometimes when I have the head lights on at night. Not abnormal. I do not believe it's two defective pumps, way too coincidental.

In fact, I'm willing to bet the OEM pump is fully functional and was never at fault.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I've never messed with fuel system on a Lexus, but is it possible to disconnect a fuel line after the fuel pump, and see of the fuel comes out when u try to start the car?

RA40

iTrader: (6)

May also inspect the various vacuum hoses...at 15 years, these begin to become brittle/hard and may develop leaks.

Other fuel related areas looking through the manual:
Fuel pump relay
Fuel pump resistor
VSV (fuel pressure control)

Heat related:
Engine coolant temp sensor

krippled

You replaced too many parts without investigating properly. You used a bunch of sade tree mechanics.

go back to the basics. It cranks doesn't start. well. there are only 3 things why a car will not start.
1.Fuel
2.Electricity
3. Air

go from the cheapest to the most expensive. 2nd diagnose from the source to the end.
1. u replace the fuel pump...did u know if it was broken? did u ever ask and find out if there was fuel coming out of every injector? if yes...then the fuel is making it. if no...then start tracing the fuel system.
2. u reorganize the wirings why? again...did u even look if there is a spark ? if there is a spark + fuel and its not starting ...well no air.

there are very few possibility why a car will not start. There is alot more possibility when a car is underperforming.

here is my tip....look for spark, test fuel pressure, remove all air ducts so that u can see the throttle. t here is no way in hell that car will not start if all 3 are there.

I have a 1991 ls400 Jade Green with 307,000 original. it's an awesome car don't lose hope. Sometimes spending the money with the right guy is worth it. Find a guy that will guarantee his work...NO Start NO Pay!! trust me...just for a brag right...I will fix your car for free!!!

Tammy

Insure the Throttle Positioning Sensor, throttle bore and the Mass Air Flow sensors are clean.

sahtt

There may be only 3 things needed for combustion, but there are hundreds of things controlling those. Combine that with it starting sometimes and running perfect, it becomes much less simple staring into the engine bay.

I investigated as well as just about anyone could who is not a mechanic. I didn't use 'sade' tree techs, one is the owner of the most highly regarded lexus shop in Houston who worked on my car personally. He mostly works on porche race cars, but does lexus/audi etc. other highend brands on the side.

On the fuel pump, did you read what I said? The tech said twice the fuel pump was not working, all the circuitry up to that point was perfect.

The difficult part is sometimes it starts and somtimes it doesn't. Ofcourse if I need to go anywhere, it doesn't start. Once the mechanic gets here, it will start EVERY time.


The car runs PERFECT once started, which it does about 66% of the time I try to start it. Even 99% doesn't mean ***** when you are stuck at a gas station etc.

I didn't reorganize the wiring, the Lexus shop in Austin did, they said the crank wiring was touching the block and 'shorting it out' when the car was hot/warm.

I'm trying not to lose hope but it's just about gone.

sahtt

Well another $120 down the drain. I had a mobile mechanic that specializes in this come work on the car from 9-12am this morning. As usual, I knew about as much as he did, if not more. I should have just bought a multi-meter and an all-data membership and at seafood instead of wasting the 120. It wasn't totally the guys fault, because the car kept starting, and made it basically impossible to diagnose. We got the car warm and let it sit for 15 mins, then it wouldn't start. We checked for spark on cylinder #1 and he says he saw some then didn't, I didn't see any at all. However, this is in broad daylight and I didn't have my face 6 inches away so I'm not sure how visible it is. Never the less, when we put the plug back in it started right up. My theory is while we were doing it the car cooled down enough to make whatever issue doesn't let it start warm go away. Still doesn't explain why 2 nights ago it wouldn't start when it was 65 degrees outside.

We double checked a few things including the fuel pump relay and a few connections. All checked out, but during this time the car was able to start so why wouldn't it anyways. Most of the time we were just trying to get the car not to start so we could daignose better. Once it does start, turning it off and then turning it right back on is instant, no excess cranking, just like a brand new car. He double checked the crank sensor wiring and that stuff, all checked out.

It's a crude balance between getting a decent price for the car, not ripping anyone off, and not throwing more money into it [aka down the drain]. I'm double majoring in Economics and Chinese, NOT automotive I DON'T have anymore time for this!!

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

I'd sell the car, even at a lost because you're already spending more money than you should. In the end, you can probably buy a nicer car with all that money you'll be spending.