Horta

Hey All

Well next time I change my brake pads I will need to change my rotors. My question is, is their any kind of rotor/pad upgrade we can do to our brakes thank will make a Performance upgrade. I am perfectly happy with my brakes, but since I have to change them anyways spending an extra two or three hundred but getting a performance boost may be worth considering. I have heard of some brake upgrade costing in the thousand and I an not interested in that.

I do not wish to change the brake just for looks. I am keeping the stock wheels and you cant really see the brakes.

Thanks
Jerry

ATSOU

Supra slotted rotors.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Jerry,

A number of members in the SC forum have put LS brakes on their SC as an upgrade (the SC comes with smaller OEM brakes) and the LS are larger and (I think) four piston, similar to the Supra TT brakes. Some manufacturers have even started painting the LS430 brakes which are lighter as an upgraded item for the GS, similar to what RMM did with redbadging the Supra TT brakes and selling them as their own brake upgrade.

You can upgrade the following items on your OEM braking system.

1) Use better fluid with a higher boiling point. There are tradeoffs with this in that you have to change it more frequently. Some examples are ATE SuperBlue (I use this) and Motul 600

2) Use upgraded pads like EBC Greenstuff or Axiss Ceramic pads. Better bite. Con is more brake dust & faster wear

3) Upgrade to stainless steel brake lines. Helps solve the soft pedal feel. Maker would be someone like Goodrich, not sure who has applications for the LS but I'm sure they are out there.

4) Change brake rotors to a drilled / slotted (or both) rotor. I personally wouldn't recommend doing this on your LS because of the additional noise that is generated by these rotors. The *theory* is that the drilled holes and slots cool the rotors better, but they make noise and are more prone to cracking and warping than solid rotors. They definitely look much cooler than solid rotors, but if you are keeping your OEM wheels they will be almost completely hidden anyway.

I'd recommend do a bit of digging with the SC guys who may have upgraded components along with putting on the LS brakes.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Couple of threads from the SC forum that show LS brakes with some upgrades as discussed above.

One note that I saw the rotors size of the LS listed in one of these threads (12.42) is smaller than the Supra TT rotors (12.73). Might work with the larger rotor (ATSOU, have you personally done this upgrade) but I would not run out and buy them without more research.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ht=ls400+brake
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ht=ls400+brake

Stefwilli

The LS already has nice size brakes I plan on getting cross-drilled and sloted OEM size rotors.

ATSOU

Dave, if I remember correctly, Lextreme told me about the Supra TT rotor swap.......hmm, let me confirm with him.

ATSOU

Do u know who makes those rotors? I'm planning to paint or powercoat my calipers & put on some cross-drilled/slotted rotors..........that'll look great behind my WORK Rezax II.

ychachad

Great recommendations DaveGS4. In addition, I'd like to comment that I use Valvoline synthetic brake fluid DOT 4 spec, and I have not had to change it any more frequently than regular fluid. There is no gain in performance, just a higher boiling point.
EBC pads are great, dust is NOT as big an issue as you might think. Stopping distance is greatly reduced, and fading is next to nil. Great confidence booster, highly recommended.
Steel brake liknes in theory are supposed to reduce the spongy feeling, but it may NOT be as noticeable in an LS, save the $120. They look nice.
Slotted and drilled rotors are noisier, more expensive, their main function is to release heat and gases, and thereby reduce brake fade. they are lighter as well, and that may make a difference in acceleration and stopping. Warping is NOT an issue as they run cooler, thereby reduce the chance for warping.

Bottom line is get softer brake pads with a maximum frictional coefficient, understanding you may have to change brakes more frequently, and live with more dust. Get the lightest rotor you can buy for maximum braking power. The best (but most expensive) option is to increase rotor diameter, and move the pads and calipers to the outside.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Good points Just a couple of clarifications from my observations and research (IMO)

The higher boiling point WILL get you a significant increase in performance if you ever drive your LS hard enough to feel brake fade. High temps / boiling fluid is a major contributor to brake fade. This usually would be on a track or very spirited driving in the mountains where you're on your brakes a lot. If you don't drive that hard you won't notice this improvement. The Valvoline synthetic recommended above is a great brake fluid, if you go to more of a 'street/track' fluid like the Motul and the ATE I listed are also synthetic but it's recommened you should change it more often because of the difference in absorbtion (they get 'wetter' faster) if you are driving hard on a regular basis. The ATE for example has a boiling point of 530 degrees vs 500 or less for the Valvoline, BUT its much harder to find in stores. You won't go wrong with any one of these.

Stainless lines made a noticable difference on my GS, but my LS brakes aren't quite as spongy as the GS OEM brakes were. I'd agree that you might skip this one if you're on a budget, but if you want to go ahead and do it right while the brakes are getting done now is the time.

Warping has been an issue for many people with slotted / drilled rotors (including me on my former Supra TT rotors). I can't say it wouldn't have also happened with solid rotors as well, but many people think that the uneven surface temperature caused by the changes in surface (holes, slots) as well as the difference in rotor thickness contribute to the warping.

I personally recommend them only if you want them for looks AND can stand the increase in brake noise. I have them on my GS (both with stock, then with Supra TT brakes and now with Brembo GS 355 mm, but I will never put them on my LS. The only way to get (significantly) lighter drilled / slotted rotors is to get a 2 piece rotor which probably doesn't exist for the OEM LS; if not they're all pretty heavy. They sound a bit like a playing card in a bicycle wheel when you brake. I've got a short video clip somewhere I probably can find if you are seriously considering doing this and want to hear it first.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Jerry-

I'd stick with the OEM replacements...we've already got great brake technology integrated in ours. The ceramic pads are low dust with excellent stopping capability and minimal rotor wear. Not to mention we have wonderful 4 piston calipers.

I think you'll have trade-off's that IMO won't be worth the additional price and a speculative "improvement" in stopping distances.

Lexkost

Look at this post I did a while back about Crossdrilled Rotors:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...drilled+rotors

Horta

Hey all

Thanks so much for all the replys. Lots of option but they all ended up soundind like for a LS in non hilly land (I live in FLAT South FLorida) that wont be raced, stick with the Awsome stock set-up.

Lexkost I see you mention the ceramic pads. Will my Lexus dealer (JM Lexus) carry those? ALL of my service is done by them. I have never touched the car myself and really have to intention too. They spoil me rotten so why should I.

Sounds like the best thing will be to stay stock. I was asking cause it feels like my rotors are a little warped. When slowing down in city speeds my steering wheel wobbels a slit bit. For my 55k service I had them check the brakes with the intention of having eveything replaced. They came back saying yes my rotors are slightly warped and could but should not be turned again. They said my pad still had good life left in them. I replaced the front brakes at 25k miles. The final suggestion from them was wait and replacle the pads and rotos at a later service, thats why I started this post.

What buggs me is that I have not done any crazy stupid hard braking like from 80 to Zero MPH or anything dumb to cause the brakes to warp. Yeh I have done 153mph and over 130mph many times but I dont touch the brakes till I coast to 120 or 110 mph and then barely touch the brakes. In my 91 LS I did hit the brake too hard once doing 120mpg and did feel what felt like brake warp after that run until I wrecked the car.

So how did my rotors warp and is there anything we can do to avoid this.

Jerry

ychachad

If you want to stay stock, fine, but consider this. Even cheap $30 a pair pads from Satisfied (sold at Tire Rack) will out perform your stock brake pads, with no additional dust or wear or frequent changing. I am talking from personal experience.

Next, get sticky tyres, preferably unidirectional ones (for braking in the wet). The tyres are a big part of your braking performance. In most racing, remember, overtaking takes place under braking, not acceleration. HP is touted, but braking is mostly ignored. Very unfortunate.

So how did your rotors warp?
Well, sudden cooling by splashes of water on a HOT disc, even under normal braking can warp them. Rain can play havoc on rotors. Also if you have been driving and wash your car, you can warp rotors.

Uphill/Downhill is the worst culprit, but you live in flat FL. Here in the mountains of WV/PA in a small city, when it rains just about everyday, I have turned rotors sometimes every month or two. Just going 2 miles downhill, under stop and go traffic will heat the rotors enough to warp them.

Got it?

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Some supplemental discussion about BBK's, this one is ongoing in the wheel and brake forum:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...hreadid=138933

Stefwilli

Alot of the SC guys get their LS rotors from ebay.