Latest issue of evo Magazine: 2010 Car of the Year. LFA? (possible SPOILER inside)
12-17-10, 03:29 PM
#31
Lexus Connoisseur
Thread Starter
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I know for a fact that a lot of people have called the white prototype transmission "clunky and feels like aging" while the latest yellow prototype has no such issues and every review I read of the yellow prototype praises the transmission. That shows the difference between the first prototype and the last prototype.
I know for a fact that a lot of people have called the white prototype transmission "clunky and feels like aging" while the latest yellow prototype has no such issues and every review I read of the yellow prototype praises the transmission. That shows the difference between the first prototype and the last prototype.
Now compare to other cars that are far more abundant where a single test car does not have nearly as much abusive miles on it since there is a much bigger inventory to supply to the press.
In a nutshell, the white prototype's 15k miles are much more "abusive miles" compared to say any other GT3 RS, 458 Italia etc. test cars since
Last edited by flipside909; 12-17-10 at 03:33 PM.
12-17-10, 03:59 PM
#32
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I think Lexus has to be pleased with 4th place with close scoring. It is basically in the realm of some of the greatest drivers cars ever made. As I've stated the GT3 RS and 458 have been mag darling since day one.
Lexus is not a sports car company but MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE if this is how their first effort competes. Think about it? The previous best car was the Supra. What a leap! Lexus was beat by cars and brands that tehnically "should win". What a showing for the LFA!
Lexus needs to trickle this passion down ASAP into some more coupes in the affordable range. It is CLEAR they can make a passionate car when they want. Its clear they can have sport DNA when they want to.
Lexus needs to build their traditional cushy cars for people that love it and LFA type cars for people that want sport with Lexus features.
Lexus is not a sports car company but MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE if this is how their first effort competes. Think about it? The previous best car was the Supra. What a leap! Lexus was beat by cars and brands that tehnically "should win". What a showing for the LFA!
Lexus needs to trickle this passion down ASAP into some more coupes in the affordable range. It is CLEAR they can make a passionate car when they want. Its clear they can have sport DNA when they want to.
Lexus needs to build their traditional cushy cars for people that love it and LFA type cars for people that want sport with Lexus features.
12-17-10, 06:02 PM
#33
I think Lexus has to be pleased with 4th place with close scoring. It is basically in the realm of some of the greatest drivers cars ever made. As I've stated the GT3 RS and 458 have been mag darling since day one.
Lexus is not a sports car company but MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE if this is how their first effort competes. Think about it? The previous best car was the Supra. What a leap! Lexus was beat by cars and brands that tehnically "should win". What a showing for the LFA!
Lexus needs to trickle this passion down ASAP into some more coupes in the affordable range. It is CLEAR they can make a passionate car when they want. Its clear they can have sport DNA when they want to.
Lexus needs to build their traditional cushy cars for people that love it and LFA type cars for people that want sport with Lexus features.
Lexus is not a sports car company but MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE if this is how their first effort competes. Think about it? The previous best car was the Supra. What a leap! Lexus was beat by cars and brands that tehnically "should win". What a showing for the LFA!
Lexus needs to trickle this passion down ASAP into some more coupes in the affordable range. It is CLEAR they can make a passionate car when they want. Its clear they can have sport DNA when they want to.
Lexus needs to build their traditional cushy cars for people that love it and LFA type cars for people that want sport with Lexus features.
12-18-10, 01:04 AM
#34
Lexus Champion
What? Why would you even think that? The F-line is expanding, with a GS-F upcoming, a new IS-F in a couple years, maybe a new SC, possible F version of the new CT? I think Toyota had the sports car thing already accomplished. It was sales of those cars that determined their fate. Now everyone criticizes Toyota for being boring and predictable. Yet when they had the Supra, Celica, and MR2 on the market no one cared enough to buy sports cars, they all wanted SUVs. All of a sudden it's cool to have sport in your brand again? Toyota has developed and stayed with the times. Now that sporty is looking on the bright side, they're bringing it back. The FT should be here soon, and I'm betting on more sporty models as well. This trickle down is already on going. I bet the carbon fiber tech they developed will help in the future, especially with stiffness and weight savings.
12-18-10, 09:31 AM
#35
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if they only start to trickle this passion down now, then it's epic fail. because the lfa is almost a meaningless car. the whole idea of lfa should be the starting jump start for their sports department on f line cars among their normal models, which should be well underway now (almost time to show results) if they are not to be late again
BMW M1 wasn't exactly a great halo and it was only the E30 M3/M5 for awhile (of course BMW DNA is sportier stock)
Benz only had the C36 AMG for maybe 6 years until the E55 came in 1999. We know today the AMG brand has tons of cars but it did take time initially.
Audi is now offering RS cars past the "S" cars.
SO hopefully Lexus simply expand the F line like AMG did and M is now doing.
12-18-10, 09:57 AM
#36
I agree that need to make some moves but Rome wasn't built in a day.
BMW M1 wasn't exactly a great halo and it was only the E30 M3/M5 for awhile (of course BMW DNA is sportier stock)
Benz only had the C36 AMG for maybe 6 years until the E55 came in 1999. We know today the AMG brand has tons of cars but it did take time initially.
Audi is now offering RS cars past the "S" cars.
SO hopefully Lexus simply expand the F line like AMG did and M is now doing.
BMW M1 wasn't exactly a great halo and it was only the E30 M3/M5 for awhile (of course BMW DNA is sportier stock)
Benz only had the C36 AMG for maybe 6 years until the E55 came in 1999. We know today the AMG brand has tons of cars but it did take time initially.
Audi is now offering RS cars past the "S" cars.
SO hopefully Lexus simply expand the F line like AMG did and M is now doing.
12-19-10, 12:55 AM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
Has anyone got the magazine yet? I went today for magazine hunting and the edition I saw of Evo in bookstores has a Bugatti Veyron super sport on it. Is it because the new COTY edition has not arrived yet or God forbid they keep a separate international version for the Canadian/US market??? Please let me know.
12-20-10, 06:33 PM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
Anyone??? Can someone please let me know if it is possible to buy this magazine in North America or they have a different edition here?? Were there any performance tests in it as well??
12-20-10, 07:49 PM
#39
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
I'm glad the GT3 RS won - it's a phenomenal car that is ridiculously fun to drive. I look forward to comparing the driving experience of the LFA to it. I will also say that if the 998/991 GT3 series finally has a PDK option, I'll seriously consider a GT3 for my daily driver. I might even consider the RS although that's pushing it as a daily, and I'd hate to deal with the roll cage squeaking.
COTY always comes to the US, so don't worry about not getting it. I have a subscription and haven't gotten the COTY issue yet.
COTY always comes to the US, so don't worry about not getting it. I have a subscription and haven't gotten the COTY issue yet.
12-20-10, 08:09 PM
#40
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The 458 is definitely a mag darling, but it is overrated given the major fire issues the car still seemingly has. That and the styling is definitely polarizing, so it's amazing how so many magazines continue to praise the 458 despite the awkward styling.
The Porsche fully deserves to win, and the other Porsche models deserve such high praise. With that said, it's great that the LFA finished 4th given the bias against it.
So you're expecting Lexus to come up with a full F sub-brand lineup in a short amount of time? 
Toyota has already given tons of hints that the knowledge and experience learned from the LFA will be applied to other cars. This is very clear.
There will be more F cars, and there will be some new Toyota brand sports cars as well.
I don't understand why some people continue to doubt whether Toyota will have future F cars or future sports cars. This reminds me of how some people doubted the LFA would make it into production as recently as just a few months before the production LFA debuted.
Toyota almost always keeps their word. They deliver on what they state or promise. Unlike many other companies, Toyota is not all talk and no action. They are the reverse, lots of action and little talk. The more silent Toyota is on future product plans, the more interesting products they have in store.
I find it strange that some people on CL seemingly don't realize or don't understand how historically Toyota delivers what they say they will
.
The Porsche fully deserves to win, and the other Porsche models deserve such high praise. With that said, it's great that the LFA finished 4th given the bias against it.
if they only start to trickle this passion down now, then it's epic fail. because the lfa is almost a meaningless car. the whole idea of lfa should be the starting jump start for their sports department on f line cars among their normal models, which should be well underway now (almost time to show results) if they are not to be late again
Toyota has already given tons of hints that the knowledge and experience learned from the LFA will be applied to other cars. This is very clear.
There will be more F cars, and there will be some new Toyota brand sports cars as well.
I don't understand why some people continue to doubt whether Toyota will have future F cars or future sports cars
. This reminds me of how some people doubted the LFA would make it into production as recently as just a few months before the production LFA debuted. Toyota almost always keeps their word. They deliver on what they state or promise. Unlike many other companies, Toyota is not all talk and no action. They are the reverse, lots of action and little talk. The more silent Toyota is on future product plans, the more interesting products they have in store.
I find it strange that some people on CL seemingly don't realize or don't understand how historically Toyota delivers what they say they will
.
12-20-10, 10:48 PM
#41
The 458 is definitely a mag darling, but it is overrated given the major fire issues the car still seemingly has. That and the styling is definitely polarizing, so it's amazing how so many magazines continue to praise the 458 despite the awkward styling.
The Porsche fully deserves to win, and the other Porsche models deserve such high praise. With that said, it's great that the LFA finished 4th given the bias against it.
So you're expecting Lexus to come up with a full F sub-brand lineup in a short amount of time?
Toyota has already given tons of hints that the knowledge and experience learned from the LFA will be applied to other cars. This is very clear.
There will be more F cars, and there will be some new Toyota brand sports cars as well.
I don't understand why some people continue to doubt whether Toyota will have future F cars or future sports cars. This reminds me of how some people doubted the LFA would make it into production as recently as just a few months before the production LFA debuted.
Toyota almost always keeps their word. They deliver on what they state or promise. Unlike many other companies, Toyota is not all talk and no action. They are the reverse, lots of action and little talk. The more silent Toyota is on future product plans, the more interesting products they have in store.
I find it strange that some people on CL seemingly don't realize or don't understand how historically Toyota delivers what they say they will.
The Porsche fully deserves to win, and the other Porsche models deserve such high praise. With that said, it's great that the LFA finished 4th given the bias against it.
So you're expecting Lexus to come up with a full F sub-brand lineup in a short amount of time?
Toyota has already given tons of hints that the knowledge and experience learned from the LFA will be applied to other cars. This is very clear.
There will be more F cars, and there will be some new Toyota brand sports cars as well.
I don't understand why some people continue to doubt whether Toyota will have future F cars or future sports cars
. This reminds me of how some people doubted the LFA would make it into production as recently as just a few months before the production LFA debuted. Toyota almost always keeps their word. They deliver on what they state or promise. Unlike many other companies, Toyota is not all talk and no action. They are the reverse, lots of action and little talk. The more silent Toyota is on future product plans, the more interesting products they have in store.
I find it strange that some people on CL seemingly don't realize or don't understand how historically Toyota delivers what they say they will
.toyota delivers, but not always true. they said 3gs would be a great car, some including me (a current 3gs owner) don't think so, nothing like the 2gs. the ls460 they said was going to be much better than the ls430. yes, it's very different, but comparing their times, i think ls430 was a better vehicle.
i don't mind them giving little talk and a lot of actions, but show the actions. your post is nothing but contradictions because you said they give a lot of "hints". isn't that all talk and no results?
i never said i expect the whole f line in a short amount of time, if you somehow think so, you think too much. i was one of the first few who said the importance of lfa was to leverage the technologies on their upcoming cars. however, i also said that they need to keep things coming and rolling fast so that they don't fall behind.
show the results and we can all give credits, otherwise, yes, it's just talk
12-21-10, 07:05 AM
#42
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In this case, we can't have the cake and eat it too.
Toyota has been criticized for reduced quality over the last few years, and rightfully so. Many of us here on CL and other places criticized Toyota for rushing out new models too quickly, especially between 2005-2008. Yes, Toyota needs to keep up with the competition, but not at the cost of quality. There needs to be a balance, and that is what Toyota is getting back to.
I did say most of the time. Between 2005-2009, admittedly Toyota talked more than usual and didn't always deliver. This was during a period of time when Katsuaki Watanabe was running the company.
I'm fine with Toyota slowing down their development cycles if it means class-leading quality and bigger improvements over previous generation models. The quality problems in recent years are being corrected, and Akio Toyoda is making sure quality is the #1 priority like it used to be at Toyota.
Fun fact, looking at Toyota's history, any time a Toyoda family member was running the company, they were extremely competitive and in many cases class-leading.
Kiichiro Toyoda in the 1940s saved the company from near bankruptcy, and also helped establish just in time production. Eiji Toyoda guided the company to success and expansion from the late 1960 to early 1980s. Eiji Toyoda famously came up with the idea of making a luxury brand, Lexus in the early 1980s. Eiji Toyoda was also one of the people that helped establish the Toyota Production System. He also helped spawn the Supra in the 1970s, and along with Shoichiro Toyoda spawned the Prius project. Shoichiro Toyoda was president from the early 1980s to early 1990s and helped spawn such projects as the Mk4 Supra, and the Prius.
Now most recently, the LFA, the most significant Lexus model since the original LS was spawned and put into production thanks to Akio Toyoda. Without him, the LFA likely would have never made it into production. Akio Toyoda also had a big influence in the creation of the F sub-brand and indirectly the IS F. Akio Toyoda is also single-handedly the reason why the FT-86 is coming to production.
No, I did not contradict myself. Toyota has given hints of future sports products by saying it is committed to introducing more sports products. I expect Toyota to keep its word, especially with Akio Toyoda running the company.
With regards to the 3GS, it was developed at a time when no Toyoda family member was running the company. This only reinforces my point. Historically, the times when Toyota has struggled the most has been when no Toyoda family member was running the company.
You're right, we need to see results, so let us all have patience. Frankly, this notion of wanting everything immediately or being impatient does no good. There is not much point in criticizing or doubting Toyota when we have not had a chance to judge upcoming products.
Toyota has been criticized for reduced quality over the last few years, and rightfully so. Many of us here on CL and other places criticized Toyota for rushing out new models too quickly, especially between 2005-2008. Yes, Toyota needs to keep up with the competition, but not at the cost of quality. There needs to be a balance, and that is what Toyota is getting back to.
I did say most of the time. Between 2005-2009, admittedly Toyota talked more than usual and didn't always deliver. This was during a period of time when Katsuaki Watanabe was running the company.
I'm fine with Toyota slowing down their development cycles if it means class-leading quality and bigger improvements over previous generation models. The quality problems in recent years are being corrected, and Akio Toyoda is making sure quality is the #1 priority like it used to be at Toyota.
Fun fact, looking at Toyota's history, any time a Toyoda family member was running the company, they were extremely competitive and in many cases class-leading.
Kiichiro Toyoda in the 1940s saved the company from near bankruptcy, and also helped establish just in time production. Eiji Toyoda guided the company to success and expansion from the late 1960 to early 1980s. Eiji Toyoda famously came up with the idea of making a luxury brand, Lexus in the early 1980s. Eiji Toyoda was also one of the people that helped establish the Toyota Production System. He also helped spawn the Supra in the 1970s, and along with Shoichiro Toyoda spawned the Prius project. Shoichiro Toyoda was president from the early 1980s to early 1990s and helped spawn such projects as the Mk4 Supra, and the Prius.
Now most recently, the LFA, the most significant Lexus model since the original LS was spawned and put into production thanks to Akio Toyoda. Without him, the LFA likely would have never made it into production. Akio Toyoda also had a big influence in the creation of the F sub-brand and indirectly the IS F. Akio Toyoda is also single-handedly the reason why the FT-86 is coming to production.
No, I did not contradict myself. Toyota has given hints of future sports products by saying it is committed to introducing more sports products. I expect Toyota to keep its word, especially with Akio Toyoda running the company.
With regards to the 3GS, it was developed at a time when no Toyoda family member was running the company. This only reinforces my point. Historically, the times when Toyota has struggled the most has been when no Toyoda family member was running the company.
You're right, we need to see results, so let us all have patience. Frankly, this notion of wanting everything immediately or being impatient does no good. There is not much point in criticizing or doubting Toyota when we have not had a chance to judge upcoming products.
12-21-10, 08:53 AM
#43
In this case, we can't have the cake and eat it too.
Toyota has been criticized for reduced quality over the last few years, and rightfully so. Many of us here on CL and other places criticized Toyota for rushing out new models too quickly, especially between 2005-2008. Yes, Toyota needs to keep up with the competition, but not at the cost of quality. There needs to be a balance, and that is what Toyota is getting back to.
I did say most of the time. Between 2005-2009, admittedly Toyota talked more than usual and didn't always deliver. This was during a period of time when Katsuaki Watanabe was running the company.
I'm fine with Toyota slowing down their development cycles if it means class-leading quality and bigger improvements over previous generation models. The quality problems in recent years are being corrected, and Akio Toyoda is making sure quality is the #1 priority like it used to be at Toyota.
Fun fact, looking at Toyota's history, any time a Toyoda family member was running the company, they were extremely competitive and in many cases class-leading.
Kiichiro Toyoda in the 1940s saved the company from near bankruptcy, and also helped establish just in time production. Eiji Toyoda guided the company to success and expansion from the late 1960 to early 1980s. Eiji Toyoda famously came up with the idea of making a luxury brand, Lexus in the early 1980s. Eiji Toyoda was also one of the people that helped establish the Toyota Production System. He also helped spawn the Supra in the 1970s, and along with Shoichiro Toyoda spawned the Prius project. Shoichiro Toyoda was president from the early 1980s to early 1990s and helped spawn such projects as the Mk4 Supra, and the Prius.
Now most recently, the LFA, the most significant Lexus model since the original LS was spawned and put into production thanks to Akio Toyoda. Without him, the LFA likely would have never made it into production. Akio Toyoda also had a big influence in the creation of the F sub-brand and indirectly the IS F. Akio Toyoda is also single-handedly the reason why the FT-86 is coming to production.
No, I did not contradict myself. Toyota has given hints of future sports products by saying it is committed to introducing more sports products. I expect Toyota to keep its word, especially with Akio Toyoda running the company.
With regards to the 3GS, it was developed at a time when no Toyoda family member was running the company. This only reinforces my point. Historically, the times when Toyota has struggled the most has been when no Toyoda family member was running the company.
You're right, we need to see results, so let us all have patience. Frankly, this notion of wanting everything immediately or being impatient does no good. There is not much point in criticizing or doubting Toyota when we have not had a chance to judge upcoming products.
Toyota has been criticized for reduced quality over the last few years, and rightfully so. Many of us here on CL and other places criticized Toyota for rushing out new models too quickly, especially between 2005-2008. Yes, Toyota needs to keep up with the competition, but not at the cost of quality. There needs to be a balance, and that is what Toyota is getting back to.
I did say most of the time. Between 2005-2009, admittedly Toyota talked more than usual and didn't always deliver. This was during a period of time when Katsuaki Watanabe was running the company.
I'm fine with Toyota slowing down their development cycles if it means class-leading quality and bigger improvements over previous generation models. The quality problems in recent years are being corrected, and Akio Toyoda is making sure quality is the #1 priority like it used to be at Toyota.
Fun fact, looking at Toyota's history, any time a Toyoda family member was running the company, they were extremely competitive and in many cases class-leading.
Kiichiro Toyoda in the 1940s saved the company from near bankruptcy, and also helped establish just in time production. Eiji Toyoda guided the company to success and expansion from the late 1960 to early 1980s. Eiji Toyoda famously came up with the idea of making a luxury brand, Lexus in the early 1980s. Eiji Toyoda was also one of the people that helped establish the Toyota Production System. He also helped spawn the Supra in the 1970s, and along with Shoichiro Toyoda spawned the Prius project. Shoichiro Toyoda was president from the early 1980s to early 1990s and helped spawn such projects as the Mk4 Supra, and the Prius.
Now most recently, the LFA, the most significant Lexus model since the original LS was spawned and put into production thanks to Akio Toyoda. Without him, the LFA likely would have never made it into production. Akio Toyoda also had a big influence in the creation of the F sub-brand and indirectly the IS F. Akio Toyoda is also single-handedly the reason why the FT-86 is coming to production.
No, I did not contradict myself. Toyota has given hints of future sports products by saying it is committed to introducing more sports products. I expect Toyota to keep its word, especially with Akio Toyoda running the company.
With regards to the 3GS, it was developed at a time when no Toyoda family member was running the company. This only reinforces my point. Historically, the times when Toyota has struggled the most has been when no Toyoda family member was running the company.
You're right, we need to see results, so let us all have patience. Frankly, this notion of wanting everything immediately or being impatient does no good. There is not much point in criticizing or doubting Toyota when we have not had a chance to judge upcoming products.
i think we are back on the same page. we both trust toyota, and we obviously agree that they have the capabilities. they just need to show results and match up with their words and that will be a huge statement.
and yes, in particular, their performance from 06 till now most definitely make me more conservative. nothing about their recalls (most of them are joke by public and media anyway), but about the company and their products. if it was the 01-05 era, i would have given them more credit on their words
12-21-10, 09:12 PM
#44
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Recently, some divisions and departments within the company were merged and reorganized for better efficiency and for more defined focus. More focused and efficient divisions and departments is a positive sign IMO .
.
12-24-10, 04:05 PM
#45
Lexus Test Driver
CAR magazine did their own car of the year, but they did not include the Lexus LFA or the 599 GTO.
The GTO must have been due to the same reason that Ferrari did not want two Ferraris competing against each other.
The absence of Lexus LFA could only be explained by inavailability and nothing else. If they chose to omit the LFA on purpose then it only showed their bias and hatred towards a non-European car going so far as becoming one of the best of the best.
p.s. SportAuto did a super test of the GT2 RS and they got 7:24 around Nurburgring from it.
The GTO must have been due to the same reason that Ferrari did not want two Ferraris competing against each other.
The absence of Lexus LFA could only be explained by inavailability and nothing else. If they chose to omit the LFA on purpose then it only showed their bias and hatred towards a non-European car going so far as becoming one of the best of the best.
p.s. SportAuto did a super test of the GT2 RS and they got 7:24 around Nurburgring from it.