Sound System Advice - amp/sub/speakers
 

I've done the searches and got the basics. But it also is mostly in the electronics and hard to sort for SC's. I'm late to the game but it's time to upgrade the "premium" :rolleyes: sound system.

Here's what I'm would like to have (requirements):
a. Don't lose storage space, no 2 12"s in the back. I want everything to stay the way it is. In another words, buy a 10" sub that can fit in existing place, buy an amp to fit in existing place under 12 CD changer.
b. Try to leave things stock. I'd want the largest speaker size possible but would like to not have to cut anything. So I guess I'm stuck with a 4" in the front?
c. Can't get headunit because I want to stay stock look up front. Also possibly getting nav/dvd touch screen in the future.

Here are my choices:
1. Seems like the JL 10IB4 is the sub to get.
2. What amp should I power it with? How much power do I need? How many channel? Can I get 1 amp that powers ALL speakers AND the sub? (and not lose fade for example?) Do I need to hook up the new amp to the battery or do I just need to remove the old and plug in the new?
3. Do I need a amp kit or anything? Don't know much about it.
4. What kinda speakers should I get? If 4" is the only one to get, what's good? What kinda power/quality?
5. What about tweeters?
6. Does headunit power speakers right now? If I want amp to power speakers, does it require rewiring? How much rewiring are we talkin about in steps 1-5?
7. How much power does the factory amp generate? Can it power just the new speakers? Or just the new sub? Does two amp require wiring to the battery and violate most of my requirement (space to put 2nd amp and major rewiring?).
8. Some advice me to only upgrade amp, sub and two rear speakers. Does it make sense?
9. Does having DVD/Nav capability in the future factor into the equation of what I should get now?
10. From above, what allows the easiest installation that a newb can do? I don't need competition level sound, just a nice quality upgrade from stock.

Sorry for the long post and if these questions have been answered before. I kinda need to mix all the requirement in and get one good choice from that. Please advice. Major thanks in advance!

askin' tooooo much, but here goes a perspective
 

Get a double din radio because your stock amp is not sufficent to be considered premium, and I believe if I'm not mistaken, the current speaker connections are plugs. Molex plugs from the radio to the amp, and some kinda 2 prong to the speakers (it's been a while ). Hi/Lo converters don't seem to work well with these plugs. Plus deck power is very minimal, and easily distorted. RCA to amp or fiberoptic is the best way to go. The double din will fill the hole and you only need an 1.5" strip of lexan, or abs plastic underneat to fill between the changer holder/cig lighter door.

As for amplifiers,...once the changer and factory amp is removed you can verticly mount two amps in that same space and a battery capacitor. As for a single free air 10? I built a box for 2 JL 8's that sit on top off the gas tank between the rear dash and removed the 10 for a vent/port into the car. My 8's hit harder and deeper than any free air 10. Sealed dual loading mono box.

4's in the front,.... leave or swap tweeter,... 6.5's in the rear, and you have a very stock lookin' setup, that requires very little extensive custom work. I've removed the gas tank cover, and in the process of building the new covers to seal my trunk. The only thing visible will be the subs, and the crossover. The box was designed to make the trunk only 4 inches shallow than the previous trunk liner.

I have 800 watts in my car between two alpine V12's,... I couldn't imagine Nakamichi stock power in comparison to this. Just a thought.

NAZTY97, thanks for a very detailed explaination. It sounds very good, however, it doesn't meet my requirement C. I mean, if I'm forced to change my headunit, then I must. However, I'm sure there's gota be SOME way to keep that and still have a good system. The extensive custom work is simply not for me ( I think I should make that a requirement D ).
In short, is there a way to use the 10ib4 sub, 1 new amp, 4 new speakers with the stock headunit and have a good/decent system?

Ledgend6spd;

You are giving us a lot of double negatives here, you want biggest speakers but wont do a custom fit, so you are stuck with stock size.

The system needs new amps to attain any quality bit they will require "extensive wiring", you cant just plug them in.

If you are not prepared for blood, sweat & tears just replace all the stock drivers with something of decent quality, I think someone actually has a 10" 2ohm sub you could use with the existing amp (cant remember who).

Dont expect to move up to an A/V system without major work like new head unit, amps, speakers.

I appreciate not wanting to alter the stock apperance or loose boot space but your being a bit of lazy **** really and wont get much more from your hi-fi system with investing a little money and plenty of time to get it right.

London Bill,

hehe, I see what ya saying. It's not that I'm lazy though, it's that I'm not CAPABLE of doing 'extensive' custom work.
I'm fully prepared to dish out the $ for a professional install.
2 problems with that, one is, I can't find a good installer here in northern VA. Second, would they really do a great job? how much do they know about the SC? how would i know if they really just did a half a$$ job.

If there are any clublexus members here in my area that's a pro and wouldn't mind helping me, I'd gladly pay for their time to work with me on a Sat afternoon.

Until then, I'm posting to see what I can get away with myself. And at the very least, get opinions on what to buy. So that when installation comes, I'll have the goods and can pay to do the labor.

I agree.... hear what I'm saying.
 

Most of what I did utilized "deadspace" in the car. You don't currently use the space where the Cd changer and amp are, even it they were removed because of the shape of that corner,... so by removing it.... a simple T-shaped board mounted to the floor standing up will allow for 2 amps in the same space that was already allocated for the stock stuff. The box is sitting on top of the gas tank... .what else can go there?? the gas tank ain't coming out,.. it's a necessity,... 4 inches shallower for 10 times more accurate and deep bass,.... not much of a loss, considering you haven't lost any width of your trunk.

The factory stuff does not have the ability to power on aftermarket equipment. You'd probably spend a ***** load of money for someone to test all 30 pin outs on the various plugs on the back of the radio,.... I tried to power the stock amp w/ an aftermarket radio,... no dice,... Custom sounds attempted as well, even though they have never gotten a lexus sound system to accept aftermarket stuff,.... this is a gut or keep system,... no hybrids ( I'm sure you might find someone who might have made it work, but why waste a lot of money for mediocre stuff ). With a double din, you can get A/V, NAV, spectrum analyzers,... I have MD and CD with analyzer,... looks far better than the stock display and big buttons,... PLUS WHO USES TAPE ANYWAYS?

A free air sub is not gonna give you that same rock solid bottom as a sealed sub,... and with tha sealed box,...you can use smaller woofers,... I saw a guy with 6's and that box dropped,... you may not get shear volume,...but can still attain a good QUALITY sound.

Our factory systems are relatively good compared to other stock systems,.... but not even in the same league when compared to decent to hi end aftermarket equipment. I believe the nackamichi totals 200 watts if I remember correctly,... spread between 5 spkrs... that's like 40watts max per speaker,.. not nearly enough to recreate accurately anything worth talkin' about unless it was a digital amplifier ( $1500 an amp or better ). A 1 1/2 strip of lexan is hardly custom,...that's a easy filler,... not some intricate extraction to get a radio to fit.

It's gonna require work no matter what you do.... so I'd say work is the constant here,.... make it worth you while, and not waste you time or money. Quality should be first priority as budget will allow and 4" speakers and 6 1/2 or 5 1/4" speakers are terribly expensive for Infinity, JBL, MB Quart, or even Alpine. JL subs are reasonable for their performance. You can get 2 decent amps for a couple hundred dollars... you ain't gotta go competition level, but buy once and never spend on it again,... save $$$ in tha long run.

aftermarket advantages:
 

with an aftermarket double din,..you still use factory mounts, eliminate the wiring nitemare,.... and standardize your wiring.

RCA's to X-over to amps
speaker wires from amps directly to speakers
HOT, Ground, Remote to radio, x-over, and amps

simple

hackin' wiring scheme outta 6 or more plugs,... insane, and I don't know any one with a wire diagram for that radio or the amp since it's all plugged. You'd be kickin' your own azz 4 that one.

I got 6.5 all the way around in my stock locations. Also got Alpine in dash LCD with Alpine DVD player in the stock location.

Legend,

Here goes...

Option A. Fit all your requirements.. Get a 5 channel JL Audio 500.5 (~$500). Run basic factory replacement speakers in all the locations. Get some 4" Co-axials with true separate tweeter control ( http://www.jlaudio.com/evolution/XR400CX.html ) (~$200). Get a JL sub like the 10ib4 in the rear. Total Installed $1400 or so.

What you get, decent sound, better bass response, and more volume. What you live with is crappy mid-bass because the 4" cannot reproduce mid-bass without distortion, muddy bass at high-levels because the IB woofer is overdampened to compensate, and a somewhat boomy effect overall from the difference between the 10" cone size to your 4" cone size. Will you be happy, maybe, will you be impressed, not a chance.

Option B. Fit some requirements with some small modifications. The door pods are super simple to make work with 5.25" speakers or even 6.5" speakers. Get a good set of front speakers like the Boston Pro or MBQuarts for $400. Do not get 'rear fill' speakers because they don't do anything great and get distorted from being so close to the subwoofer. Then get a JL Audio 300.4 amplifier for $400 and the IB10 subwoofer. Total cost, maybe $1200 installed.

What you get is a big difference and money well spent. Better all around and clean.

MW

Reply if you need more info

pcmw, I like what I'm hearing from you. You are definitely making sense. I SEE your option B and RAISE you some questions (no pun intended =-) :

What do you mean do not get 'rear fill' speakers? What's that? You are not saying I should stick w/ stock rear speakers are you? Pardon the ignorant question.

Okay, I'll give a lil on my requirement and go up to 6.5 speakers in the front. Which of the two speakers you mentioned is better and why? I heard someone said MBQuartz is nothing but a dressed up Bose. What other good speakers are out there?

As for the JL Audio 300.4, how good is that? Does it sufficiently power all the speakers AND the sub? My friends recommend Alpine for everything. Any comments on Alpine?

Finally, going with this setup. If I get a shop to install this, are they going to do the custom work for the speakers and the spacer for the sub? How much do you foresee the install cost will be all together? That way I'll have an estimate going in.

NAZTY97;

The US wiring diagrams are on my website, you can use the aerial booster to power up an amp from the stock head unit.

There are "converters" available to plug a new h/unit into the stock wiring if need be.


Legends6spd;

Why not indeed get some assitance on the DIY front, you will gain more satisfaction from getting right and saving install bucks.

"Rear Fill" this means a normal pair of full range rear speakers, ideally you would only have bass/mid bass coming from behind your ears, so the rear shelf would contain a sub and a pair of dedicated mid bass drivers, the exact cut-off would depend on speaker type, power levels, front/rear power balance but it would be cool to get it right.

I am in the same boat as Legend...

Is the 300.4 amp a plug-in replacement? Or custom wiring?
Do all stock controls still function with it?

Thanks!
:)

Phew...more questions...okay here goes.

Legends6spd,

Your questions are good ones and therefore I want to help as much as possible. I do speak from experience and would not steer you ghetto or trash. "Rear Fill" is the reference to people and manufacturers that mount full range speakers behind your head. They are only there to "fill" the rear of the car. I find little use for them and in this situation they are WORTHLESS. First, they are on the same mounting location as the woofer. When the woofer moves, it will naturally make your full range speakers move in the opposite direction because of the semi-sealed nature of your trunk. This backward movement of the full range speaker will sound distorted and out of phase ( one speaker going out while the next goes inward hence cancelling the sound or part of it.) I prefer to eliminate the rear fill or rear side speakers for this reason. They are more hassel than worth it.

Speakers for the front. I used the JL Audio XR 5.25 series ( http://www.jlaudio.com/evolution/XR525CS.html ). They are great speakers for the price range (~$240). The installation of the 5.25 in the stock door pods was simple and easy to do. Most professional shops can do this. Let me know if they need instructions on how you want it done. I will call them and they will understand. MB Quarts (with an S not a Z) are excellent speakers and worth the money. Two bad sides....you cannot mount some of their tweeters in the factory location because of size. And they are $$$$. Good set is about $350. Lastly, the old stand by, Boston Pro Series. The latest incarnation of these speakers has split opinions and really comes to taste. They are nice, but I tend to fry them with too much power alot. JL's and quarts I have had never blown...yet. I like all three, you need to listen with your eyes closed doing a A/B/C comparison and see if the money is worth the difference.

Alpine builds great headunits ( the piece in the dash ). JL Audio's 300.4 is the best fit for a few reasons. First, it will definitely power the fronts and the sub (don't need the rears as referenced above). Second, it has a great line-level adjustment for the inheritantly weak signal that the factory stereo emits. It is about 1/2 of normal (more about that later). Lastly, the unit is an all in one type answer to the situation and offers easy mounting in plenty of locations in the trunk.

Install cost. You cannot get this done CORRECTLY at a national chain store. They will hack it up pretty bad. Depending on where you live I may have recommendations..... Here is my take on pricing. Door Speakers installation starts at $50 + $100 custom work. Rear Sub is about $50 + $50 custom work. Amplifier install is about $45 + $70 in GOOD wire + $45 to splice into the factory outputs. $360 is a fair price on the high side. The splicing into the factory harness is pretty simple and may be included in the standard price of $45 to mount the amp. The reason is that the installer would normally have to remove the interior to run rca-cables to the amp....the timed saved in tapping into them in the trunk would be equal to the time it takes to sort that out.

Snowman9000

No such thing as a "plug in replacement". All quality amps need to be wired from the battery with 4ga or better cables and grounded correctly. All amps need to be fed a remote turn on and require custom wiring for that type of thing.

In my setup, I used the front fader output to control the door speakers and the rear fader output to control the subwoofer. With exception to that, I have complete stock control of all the stereo features.

Hope this helps...

Keep the GOOD questions coming.

MW

rear fill can be viable...
 

if he uses a different mounting arrangement for the sub, and or baffle for the midbass drivers, it does make a considerable difference. I know for those who DSP's,... rears are kinda necessary, and for passengers,... no rear speakers sounds like bass, bass, basssss,...... doesn't sound good at all in the rear seat.

London Bill - thanks for the info on the wiring diagram,.... I did the obvious and gutted the whole system. I'm thinkin' it'd be helpful if I sell the car and want to rewire the stock back in ( HD unit only ) and leave the aftermarket drivers in.

I used the top of the line JL Audio 4" and tweets, JL 10ib4, and powered by an Alpine V12 5 channel amp.. sounds excellent!