Whadda Ya Think?
06-07-19, 06:26 PM
#31
Good points.
When I stated 20% off MSRP or invoice I was talking in more general terms and that is why I compared with Chevy or Ford. All car makers do not have the same pricing structure.
Note that I used the word "or".
With Lexus the 20% off MSRP is below their invoice so lets work with that.
I looked in Autotrader today and found a 2019 "used" LC with 300 miles off of a BMW dealer for 14% off MSRP. I am sure this dealer has room for bargaining further but bear in mind that the 2019 models are still pretty fresh and there are not many in the market. The more examples you see the more you learn how much room to bargain you have. This is practically a new unit.
KBB shows the price range indicating that dealers are selling for 9% off MSRP.
When I got my 2018, I got it on December 30, 2018 and the dealer already had the 2019's on the floor and the car was the last of the 2018 model year, so they had incentive to sell.
I got mine for 18% off of MSRP. And I know there was more room to bargain but... It takes more patience which I don't have. So I took it home.
Consider that I am not an expert and that I am just sharing with you my experience and I hope it helps.
Puertex
When I stated 20% off MSRP or invoice I was talking in more general terms and that is why I compared with Chevy or Ford. All car makers do not have the same pricing structure.
Note that I used the word "or".
With Lexus the 20% off MSRP is below their invoice so lets work with that.
I looked in Autotrader today and found a 2019 "used" LC with 300 miles off of a BMW dealer for 14% off MSRP. I am sure this dealer has room for bargaining further but bear in mind that the 2019 models are still pretty fresh and there are not many in the market. The more examples you see the more you learn how much room to bargain you have. This is practically a new unit.
KBB shows the price range indicating that dealers are selling for 9% off MSRP.
When I got my 2018, I got it on December 30, 2018 and the dealer already had the 2019's on the floor and the car was the last of the 2018 model year, so they had incentive to sell.
I got mine for 18% off of MSRP. And I know there was more room to bargain but... It takes more patience which I don't have. So I took it home.
Consider that I am not an expert and that I am just sharing with you my experience and I hope it helps.
Puertex
10% is my line, 15% for a 2019 LC I will put my deposit down right away. Now I find most new cars have the performance package, which I do not want.
06-08-19, 09:43 AM
#32
Once the car is considered "used" then there is more opportunity beyond the 20%.
Researching KBB and checking nationwide Autotrader will give you a lot of info.
One consideration is that once the dealer sells the car, the warranty clock starts ticking.
An example is that BMW dealer that got an unloaded car from a Lexus dealer with 300 miles.
That warranty clock is already ticking..But the % discount jumped to 14%. Its all tradeoffs right?
Good luck with your research !
Puertex
06-08-19, 10:46 AM
#33
You might consider a 2018 with low miles.
Once the car is considered "used" then there is more opportunity beyond the 20%.
Researching KBB and checking nationwide Autotrader will give you a lot of info.
One consideration is that once the dealer sells the car, the warranty clock starts ticking.
An example is that BMW dealer that got an unloaded car from a Lexus dealer with 300 miles.
That warranty clock is already ticking..But the % discount jumped to 14%. Its all tradeoffs right?
Good luck with your research !
Puertex
Once the car is considered "used" then there is more opportunity beyond the 20%.
Researching KBB and checking nationwide Autotrader will give you a lot of info.
One consideration is that once the dealer sells the car, the warranty clock starts ticking.
An example is that BMW dealer that got an unloaded car from a Lexus dealer with 300 miles.
That warranty clock is already ticking..But the % discount jumped to 14%. Its all tradeoffs right?
Good luck with your research !
Puertex
06-08-19, 04:55 PM
#34
06-08-19, 05:47 PM
#35
06-08-19, 06:25 PM
#36
Its hard to get exactly what you want when there are so few at the dealers.
In my case, I was alright with the added options. I ended up up the perf. package an other stuff.
Plus, as I stated before, it was the last 2018 left at the dealer and my wife was all for it.
She liked the car, and for me that was a huge green light.
We were both to the point where we did not want a Vette anymore. Don't get me wrong, the Vette is a great car but we are 65 and 70 and the car does not fit our needs any more for a lot of reasons.
Ohh, but the LC is a different animal we both liked it and it is a refined car.
Puertex
06-08-19, 07:18 PM
#37
Cool.
Its hard to get exactly what you want when there are so few at the dealers.
In my case, I was alright with the added options. I ended up up the perf. package an other stuff.
Plus, as I stated before, it was the last 2018 left at the dealer and my wife was all for it.
She liked the car, and for me that was a huge green light.
We were both to the point where we did not want a Vette anymore. Don't get me wrong, the Vette is a great car but we are 65 and 70 and the car does not fit our needs any more for a lot of reasons.
Ohh, but the LC is a different animal we both liked it and it is a refined car.
Puertex
Its hard to get exactly what you want when there are so few at the dealers.
In my case, I was alright with the added options. I ended up up the perf. package an other stuff.
Plus, as I stated before, it was the last 2018 left at the dealer and my wife was all for it.
She liked the car, and for me that was a huge green light.
We were both to the point where we did not want a Vette anymore. Don't get me wrong, the Vette is a great car but we are 65 and 70 and the car does not fit our needs any more for a lot of reasons.
Ohh, but the LC is a different animal we both liked it and it is a refined car.
Puertex
06-08-19, 08:31 PM
#38
Just at the right moment my dealer found an unallocated LC on the dock that met my specifications and had it sent over without me knowing. When it came in he switched it with the one with the performance package that had been sitting in the showroom. So when I showed up soon thereafter for the umpteenth time, they surprised me. And I was finally sold. He had told me that he would meet the used car price that I found, but I didn't believe him.
I like dealing with Lexus. They value their customers.
When I took my car for the first checkup at 1500 miles or so, they invited me into their shop so that I could chat with the technician.
I asked my advisor why he did that and he said that LC owners are welcome to see their cars worked on.
I was surprised.
Puertex
06-08-19, 09:10 PM
#39
Lead Lap
Dealers are changing up ads, and another one with a flat out 18% discount on a 18 just popped up. The end method here is there about 30 some 18s in 500/H available listed (some dealers have LCs in stock but I guess want to avoid low ballers or something etc) across the country. If you are inclined and serious about a purchase, start narrowing it down to the ones you like and can go for, and emailing them about pricing and current odo clock.
My 2 cents, forget about being cordial and cuddly, lets talk about how we can work together about a vehicle thats going to eating up space on your floorplan with the MY20s inbound. If you feel that you have atleast one butt to pay close to sticker, lmk so I can save us both time. These things are not M8s or LFAs on the second hand market, so lets negotiate that way. Finally be realistic, a dealer wont go lower then manheim numbers on this unit and of course offer to put a earnest refundable deposit.
My 2 cents, forget about being cordial and cuddly, lets talk about how we can work together about a vehicle thats going to eating up space on your floorplan with the MY20s inbound. If you feel that you have atleast one butt to pay close to sticker, lmk so I can save us both time. These things are not M8s or LFAs on the second hand market, so lets negotiate that way. Finally be realistic, a dealer wont go lower then manheim numbers on this unit and of course offer to put a earnest refundable deposit.
Last edited by coolsaber; 06-09-19 at 08:06 AM.
06-09-19, 07:41 AM
#40
Dealers are changing up ads, and another one with a flat out 18% discount on a 18 just popped up. The end method here is there about 30 some 18s in 500/H available listed (some dealers have LCs in stock but I guess want to avoid low ballers or something etc) across the country. If you are inclined and serious about a purchase, start narrowing it down to the ones you like and can go for, and emailing them about pricing and current odo clock.
My 2 cents, forget about being cordial and cuddly, lets talk about how we can work together about a vehicle thats going to eating up space on your floorplan with the MY20s inbound. If you feel that you have atleast one butt to pay close to sticker, lmk so I can save us both time. These things are not M8s or LFAs on the second hand market, so lets negotiate that way. Finally be realistic, if a dealer wont go lower then manheim numbers on this unit and of course offer to put a earnest refundable deposit.
My 2 cents, forget about being cordial and cuddly, lets talk about how we can work together about a vehicle thats going to eating up space on your floorplan with the MY20s inbound. If you feel that you have atleast one butt to pay close to sticker, lmk so I can save us both time. These things are not M8s or LFAs on the second hand market, so lets negotiate that way. Finally be realistic, if a dealer wont go lower then manheim numbers on this unit and of course offer to put a earnest refundable deposit.
Now what cost is is the unknown. Note that when I refer to dealer, I am talking about a Lexus dealer.
One approach that I was starting to use to determine their cost is to go to KBB or NADA and find the retail value of a used LC with 0 miles, sold by a dealer, with the exact same options. Using 'used' will account for the car being sold by the dealer once as a new unit.
This cost will give you a reference point for the low cost of a discounted new unit. I would say the Lexus dealer will definitely not go lower.
This will work for the 18's not so much for the 19's because the used cost curve is not yet determined by the market.
What do you think about this approach?
Puertex
06-09-19, 08:32 AM
#41
Lead Lap
if you dont have mannheim, KBB and NADA are good bets. However, sometimes you will see the dealer use their used market local to the vehicle you are interested as their comp values
06-09-19, 11:36 AM
#42
You might consider a 2018 with low miles.
Once the car is considered "used" then there is more opportunity beyond the 20%.
Researching KBB and checking nationwide Autotrader will give you a lot of info.
One consideration is that once the dealer sells the car, the warranty clock starts ticking.
An example is that BMW dealer that got an unloaded car from a Lexus dealer with 300 miles.
That warranty clock is already ticking..But the % discount jumped to 14%. Its all tradeoffs right?
Good luck with your research !
Puertex
Once the car is considered "used" then there is more opportunity beyond the 20%.
Researching KBB and checking nationwide Autotrader will give you a lot of info.
One consideration is that once the dealer sells the car, the warranty clock starts ticking.
An example is that BMW dealer that got an unloaded car from a Lexus dealer with 300 miles.
That warranty clock is already ticking..But the % discount jumped to 14%. Its all tradeoffs right?
Good luck with your research !
Puertex
I have seen people in this forum talking about getting around 15% off MSRP, for both 2018 and 2019. Autotrader is very useful. In my area, I find two new listed 2018 used CPO LC with 5K mileage, originally full-loaded with 105 or 107k MSRP, and they are listed around 82k. The thing is: If I can get 15% off for a new 107k, that is 92K settle price. Then the market is telling me the first year depreciation is just 92k-82k=10k. Really?
06-09-19, 11:37 AM
#43
I would think that at this point the dealers would unload the 18's at near cost.
Now what cost is is the unknown. Note that when I refer to dealer, I am talking about a Lexus dealer.
One approach that I was starting to use to determine their cost is to go to KBB or NADA and find the retail value of a used LC with 0 miles, sold by a dealer, with the exact same options. Using 'used' will account for the car being sold by the dealer once as a new unit.
This cost will give you a reference point for the low cost of a discounted new unit. I would say the Lexus dealer will definitely not go lower.
This will work for the 18's not so much for the 19's because the used cost curve is not yet determined by the market.
What do you think about this approach?
Puertex
Now what cost is is the unknown. Note that when I refer to dealer, I am talking about a Lexus dealer.
One approach that I was starting to use to determine their cost is to go to KBB or NADA and find the retail value of a used LC with 0 miles, sold by a dealer, with the exact same options. Using 'used' will account for the car being sold by the dealer once as a new unit.
This cost will give you a reference point for the low cost of a discounted new unit. I would say the Lexus dealer will definitely not go lower.
This will work for the 18's not so much for the 19's because the used cost curve is not yet determined by the market.
What do you think about this approach?
Puertex
06-09-19, 02:48 PM
#44
Thanks. I am only looking for new 2019 LC, and I love the bespoke interior, which only makes my choice narrower.
I have seen people in this forum talking about getting around 15% off MSRP, for both 2018 and 2019. Autotrader is very useful. In my area, I find two new listed 2018 used CPO LC with 5K mileage, originally full-loaded with 105 or 107k MSRP, and they are listed around 82k. The thing is: If I can get 15% off for a new 107k, that is 92K settle price. Then the market is telling me the first year depreciation is just 92k-82k=10k. Really?
I have seen people in this forum talking about getting around 15% off MSRP, for both 2018 and 2019. Autotrader is very useful. In my area, I find two new listed 2018 used CPO LC with 5K mileage, originally full-loaded with 105 or 107k MSRP, and they are listed around 82k. The thing is: If I can get 15% off for a new 107k, that is 92K settle price. Then the market is telling me the first year depreciation is just 92k-82k=10k. Really?
I may be the depreciation includes the MSRP in the first year calculation. This is just my guess. It may be that most people don't bargain as much as we do
.The $92k/$82k example you presented calculates at 11% depreciation for the first year. The difference being the lower cost due to bargaining.
The site I referenced shows that the value of the car will be about 50% in 5 years.
There is another thread here were people were discussing depreciation.
I think most luxury cars will depreciate faster than the average Camry.
My guess is that Luxury can be a component of depreciation and that it goes down faster than the other components of the formula...
Puertex
06-09-19, 04:29 PM
#45
According to https://usedfirst.com/cars/lexus/ the first year depreciation, for all Lexus cars, is 19.8%.
I may be the depreciation includes the MSRP in the first year calculation. This is just my guess. It may be that most people don't bargain as much as we do.
The $92k/$82k example you presented calculates at 11% depreciation for the first year. The difference being the lower cost due to bargaining.
The site I referenced shows that the value of the car will be about 50% in 5 years.
There is another thread here were people were discussing depreciation.
I think most luxury cars will depreciate faster than the average Camry.
My guess is that Luxury can be a component of depreciation and that it goes down faster than the other components of the formula...
Puertex
I may be the depreciation includes the MSRP in the first year calculation. This is just my guess. It may be that most people don't bargain as much as we do
.The $92k/$82k example you presented calculates at 11% depreciation for the first year. The difference being the lower cost due to bargaining.
The site I referenced shows that the value of the car will be about 50% in 5 years.
There is another thread here were people were discussing depreciation.
I think most luxury cars will depreciate faster than the average Camry.
My guess is that Luxury can be a component of depreciation and that it goes down faster than the other components of the formula...
Puertex
If we believe in the 19.8 almost 20% depreciation, and we start from believing there is little room for a used car (which I think is true because internet offers must be aggressive). Then based on the 82k used example, what people get for a new 107k car should be 102k. If we start from believing getting 15% off for a new car, which is 92k for a new 107 msrp, than the used car should be around 72k. Now, the question becomes which market & information is wrong, used or new?