Magellan55

Gah! It's already sold. on the lot only 3 days, and not another one planned that isn't special ordered. I'm not going to order a hybrid without driving it first, so I might just wait a few months. Though they have a V8 coming in next week, so I might drive that to see if I like the other aspects of the car.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

That sucks, you didn't ask them to reserve it for you so you can do a quick test drive?

Maybe you can call corporate and make them aware you are out there so they can help you. It can't (and should not) be this hard to get a test drive.

webra

This review gives some performance data.....

http://performancedrive.com.au/2017-...ew-video-0315/

Magellan55

Stopped by the dealer to drool over the sold hybrid, which is still sitting in the middle of the showroom. Confirmed it has the performance package, rear spoiler, etc.

Not being able to drive one makes me want it even more :-) Lexus supposedly is making 20% of US LC500 shipments hybrids, and some feel that's optimistic, but so far the hybrids seem to get snapped up quicker, at least at my dealer (which has locations in 2 cities). I may need to either hop on an airplane or put money down and order one to get a sniff. When I test drive the V8 that's arriving next week (their other V8 already has 500 miles on it so no more test drives), I'll ask if I can order a hybrid and get my money back if I don't like it. Shouldn't be hard for them to sell it to someone else.

TimboIS

HAHAHA, let us know what they say. :rollseyes:

chromedome

I'd say go for the hybrid if you like lots of torque at low rpm. I'm a lowly ES hybrid driver but I've driven the GS450h and that thing takes off like a rocket from all that torque, especially for midrange acceleration. The ES300h has the dreaded hybrid rubberband feel while the GS450h has a more direct feel between throttle application and acceleration.

I'd assume the LC500h would feel even more direct thanks to the new secondary transmission. The engine and electric motors are similar to the GS so it'll be down on high-rpm horsepower compared to the V8 but with loads more torque. There's also the cool factor of creeping around in complete silence without an engine blaring.

Horses for courses... Counting mpgs is a bit pointless at the LC's price range but the hybrid's tank range shouldn't be discounted. The higher mpg translates into longer range and less need for fuel stops. Maybe that makes the hybrid the better tourer too.

Kira X

iTrader: (24)

We still haven't gotten a hybrid LC at my dealership yet. Just V8 models.

Magellan55

That's a good idea to check out the GS450h. Those apparently are pretty rare too, nothing new or used near me except for a 2007 model, which probably isn't that close to the LC500h powertrain. This is nuts.

Just had a red/tan LC500 pull up next to me at a red light this morning. Might as well have been a Lambo, it looked so exotic out on the road.

chromedome

Yeah, the GS hybrid is a very rare car. You can get a taste of a Lexus hybrid's midrange shove by test driving an ES300h and putting it in Sport mode. There's surprising acceleration if the battery charge is at 3 bars or more.

An RC300h would probably feel closer to an LC500h but that's also another rare car. North America also doesn't get the IS300h and GS300h. The ES is actually the lightest of the big Lexus hybrids; take the shove from that car and multiply it by 5 to approximate the LC500h

Once you go hybrid, you'll never go back...

Magellan55

I drive a HS250h (no smirks please), which has the previous gen powertrain, so I do have some experience with that :-) The torque is "adequate" for my typical uses, and I'm sure the LC500h will be even better with 2x the HP. FWIW, I typically leave it in Eco, and only use Power mode (HS version of Sport) when I need a burst. My main concern is the throttle lag of the CVT, especially when trying to accelerate in a short time window, like squirting through a hole in traffic, not necessarily trying to go 0-60 (more like 0-20, or 40-60). Whomever programmed my CVT must have assumed a driver flooring the gas pedal is trying to escape zombies, and revs the engine up to max HP before transferring anything to the wheels. Reviews say this multi-stage tranny is better, but I'm hesitant to throw $$ at this car without testing it for myself :-)

I was wrong, Motor Trend did do a comparison of the two; not sure how I missed the table at the bottom as I read this before. From their specs, the hybrid lags behind the V8 at all speeds, but they are close up to 50 mph. Above that, the V8 pulls away easily. That aligns with what others have said subjectively, that the hybrid feels pretty strong at speeds encountered around town / in traffic, while the V8's gearing makes it underwhelming (for a V8) at low speeds but dominates at highway speeds and above.

But, like C&D found, both their 0-60 times were ~1/2s slower than Lexus' claims. Makes me wonder how Lexus did their test, especially in the hybrid. Video reviews I'm seen on YouTube show the V6 at zero rpm (in Sport+ mode) when starting a 0-60 test - that's gotta add a delay. Motor Trend's results also hint at a slow start, as the hybrid is already 0.3s behind at 30 mph, but narrows the gap with the V8 by 50 mph. Is the LC500h pretty aggressive at shutting down the engine at every redlight? If Lexus had a way to keep the engine running to start their 0-60 run, that could make a difference. Of course, that doesn't explain their overly optimistic V8 results at all.

Another nice tidbit from the article is their "Real MPG" test results, showing both cars get ~3 mpg better than EPA. 30 mpg highway in a V8 is sweet! And the not-much-slower hybrid gets to within a rounding error of my HS' fuel economy (though using 30% more expensive fuel).

Well, thanks for listening. In the absence of any hybrids to test drive, you guys (and gals?) are a big source of info/advice to help me decide which one to order.

chromedome

The Sport mode in the latest hybrids dumps 600 V to the traction motor so you get quite a torque kick compared to the 440 V in Eco and Normal modes. You're right about power lag though, if the engine is off then there's a delay to power it on and get it spinning at the required speed. On the ES, I don't notice the lag if I'm doing a scalded-cat takeoff from a complete stop, as the traction motor covers for the engine as it fires up.. The lag is noticeable when overtaking: requested power from both engine and traction motor can only be delivered once the engine is running and at the right rpm. It feels like a bad case of turbo lag on a big diesel.

The LC500h is supposed to get around this by locking gear ratios with the secondary transmission and letting the traction motor run at higher speeds. Presumably the engine will also run more often in Sport mode to reduce lag. It's funny that the similarly priced BMW i8 uses a much simpler setup to juggle power between its electric motor and engine, but the car ends up handling very differently with a full charge vs a depleted battery.

Magellan55

Well I got lucky when I went to test drive the V8 this morning - the guy that had ordered the hybrid changed his mind last night and decided on a V8 instead, so it's on the market and available for me to test drive! I got to drive them back-to-back, about 30 minutes in each on a combo of highway, city traffic, and twisty back roads. I think others were right, the hybrid seems designed for "normal" driving on commutes, long trips, etc. Tranny is more responsive than other hybrids, but not as good as the V8's. Tried it in sport+ and other settings, and didn't feel much difference. Driving it up to maybe 7/10 it's really good. I left it feeling it's a very good car, but not all that exciting or worth $100K other than the looks and exclusivity. Sales guy also told me the hybrid has 5% less resale value compared to the V8 according to their leasing info - so that's a double whammy in cost that fuel savings won't recover.

As for the V8, it's a more exciting experience (mainly for the sound track, but the engine is more refined too), but the 10 speed in that isn't all that sorted either, at least in "normal" driving when you are cruising along in a tall gear and have to gun it to pass, for example. Might be fine in spirited driving with the engine staying in the upper revs, but it didn't like me asking it to jump from 1500 rpm to 6000, in either auto or manual. This might be a case of "too many gears", as I was asking it to drop down 5 or 6 gears at once. I also drove a base 911 on the same roads today, and its PDK had no such hesitation. I also took all three on a sweeping 120 degree entry ramp, and both LC's had squirrely back ends (both had the limited slip diff and 21" wheels, and the hybrid had the rear steering / Performance package). The 911 did the sweep without breaking a sweat, and inspired more confidence to really push it. Maybe it was the tires? I stepped out of the V8 feeling about like I did the hybrid - very good car but mostly it was the looks and engine sound, and not the driving experience, that might make it worth $100K. And this was before I drove the 911.

Other notes - the sport seats felt tight to me in the shoulder area, and I'm only 5-7, 160 pounds. I'm heading over to a sister dealership tomorrow to sit in a touring seat. As everyone else states, the infotainment system was really hard to use. Not sure how others experience it, but the track pad seems too far back - it sits below my wrist, rather than my fingers, so I have to reach back awkwardly to use it. Maybe my seat is up too far because I'm short, but I lean my seat back pretty far too. The LC sits up higher than the 911, so it was easier to get out of. I sat in the back, and while there was more leg room than the 911, my head hit the back glass in both. Someone maybe 5' could fit back there in the LC for short drives, as long as the driver / front passenger aren't tall. Which is exactly what I'm looking for - a sports car with a place to stick my kids in an emergency. Trunk seems fine for 2 carry-on bags or a couple of collapsible sports seats, and more than the 911 gives you.

Hope this is helpful for anyone else shopping the hybrid. I don't think there's another one available right now on the whole East coast.

peregrin99

Magellan55 - thanks for your perspective on how the LC500, LC500h and 911 compare. What did you decide as a result of these test drives? Did you decide to buy?

Magellan55

More confused than ever :-) I like the looks of the LC a lot, and of course the Lexus brand. And I liked how the 911 drove best. But this will be my "lifetime achievement" award to myself (OK, midlife crisis car), that I expect to keep for 15 years, so it has to really wow me, and none of them did actually, at least not enough to invest this kind of $$. For reference I normally buy cars in the $35-$40K range, so this is a serious "once in a lifetime" decision for me. I went in there 90% sold on buying the LC, and just needing to determine V8 or hybrid. After the test drives, I went to the Porsche dealer across the street just to see if my subjective concerns were valid. Besides the really wimpy CVT in my HS, I'm used to manual trannies, so I wasn't sure if I was just expecting too much from an auto tranny. I even drove a manual 911 to compare too :-) That's still the gold standard for me, but the 911's PDK is close enough now that I don't think I'd buy a 911 manual. But the LC's tranny is just not quite sorted out yet for me, and it's something Lexus should be able to fix with a little tweaking.

The rear end waggle I experienced was much less a concern, as it was still plenty sticky and controllable, and probably better than most sport sedans. In fact I was impressed, and the sweeper was suggested by the Lexus salesman to showcase its handling. It stayed flat, and I could apply power through the curve with only minor throttle feathering. Only when I later took the same curve in the 911 did I realize the LC took more effort to control than ideal. But I don't typically drive like that, so it was more an experiment to feel it at its limits. This wouldn't be a decision factor for me, but I wanted to share my experience here in case others were interested.

V8 or hybrid? I'm still not sure, as I like each for different reasons. I even took a sound meter with me (I take a lot of calls in the car, so I can't have thrumming on the highway). The hybrid was maybe 2dB quieter on the highway, both in "comfort" mode, but to be honest I think the tires (both had 21" Bridgestones, not Michelins) made more noise than the engines when cruising at 75. Both were pretty easy going in normal driving, with a slight nod to the hybrid for smoothness and quiet. It's not a perfect analogy, but it was almost like comparing the V8 to a V12, in that the hybrid's motor provided enough low end assist for pulling away from red lights that the V6 never had to sound strained. But the V8 wasn't bad at all either. In terms of passing power, the V8 spun up faster than the hybrid, no doubt because it was designed from the ground up for performance, while the hybrid's V6 I think is the same basic 3.5L in a lot of more sedate Lexus/Toyota products. And of course the V8's tranny was snappier and managed big changes in throttle better. The V8 sounded better too, but over time I wondered if I would tire of it. Really tough for me to choose one!

What I may do is wait some, maybe for the next model year LC, or see what else comes along in the next year. I'm not in a hurry. Maybe drive a Maserati Gran Tourismo and/or used DB9/11 too. I've looked at the 640i and E400 coupes, but just don't think they ring my bell visually. I'd really like to see a 2+2 coupe plug-in hybrid or electric car, but nothing on the radar yet. In the meantime, I'm test driving a Tesla on Monday, just to see how an ell-electric drivetrain compares :-) It's roughly the same 0-60 as the LC500 and 911, so kind of apples-apples, though as a big sedan the handling probably not. And the showroom is in a different city so different roads too.

chromedome

A Tesla 100D or a BMW i8 if you want good performance and plug-in charging. The Tesla looks totally anonymous but it has four doors and crazy performance, while the i8 looks sensational but its performance could be better.