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For whatever it’s worth, my 38k miles ISF moved like a teaspoon of fluid into my air/oil separator in 1.5 years of use, so I removed it and sold it. If you hit the track again, please report your catch can contents to us.
Updating this thread that I ordered a new PCV valve today and will let you guys know if my old one was stuck open @ 114k........regardless it's cheap enough to do as a maintenance item for peace of mind
I posted in my build thread but a repost seemed relevant here. Ive been looking into this for a bit and was a bit annoyed how fast the catch can fills up during a track session. I have a 1 qt catch can so its not as bad as it was with the RR racing container but its still a bit of a pain to remember to check it and drain it after a few sessions.
I have come to the conclusion that its not so much the check valve as the air velocity drawing the oil up the rather tiny hose. Think of drinking water out of a normal straw vs a garden hose. The slower moving air of the increased volume will have less energy to carry the liquid oil up the hose to the can. The idea is to more volume available to allow vapor to escape at a lower velocity. I have dealt with crank case blow by road racing Honda's for years and this same idea is how we solve the problem. This stock system with the stock PVC valve and weido hose size is really not ideal in this situation and in my opinion was a sort of a packaging compromise on the Yahama and Lexus side.
To solve this I wanted largest hose you can get going from the separator case to the collector tank.
I bought a new separator case and Dremeled out the threads and lip to make the opening a full 5/8
I then scuffed and tapped the case for a thread or two with a 1/2 NPT tap.
I used a 5/8 inch barbed fitting and JB welded it into the new prepped separator case.
It clears the throttle body and water passage no problem
(old pic of the old catch can set up ill get some current ones soon)
Putting this on the other side of the catchcan meters air coming out of the catch can volume as needed and effectively places the catch can onto the 'hot side' of the system similar to the separator case. The cold side being anything after the PVC. (The new PVC only comes in 3/8 and an6 so it'll need an adapter to jump to the weirdo 1/2 inch size the factory uses for the intake manifold inlet) Its also possible to plug the 1/2 inch port and drill and tap for a 3/8 to not have to use an adapter. i'm going to do some testing and figure out which is the best option, but honestly both will work. Im going to do some testing on track in a couple weeks and expect to see much less blow by, ill keep you all posted.
Last edited by illwillem; Sep 23, 2020 at 06:06 PM.
I decided to swap out my PCV valve, as it (2nd one) was put on back in Feb 2016 when the original was swapped with 117k miles... I requested the swap during the ELF fuel pressure sensor campaign.
Which was also when they found the leaking valley plate..
Fast forward to today, still has 179k miles... Reason I wanted to swap was that my hose was showing signs of vapor and oily grime collecting on the orange area of the valve. So much so that the orange color was no longer visible.. This 2nd valve only had 72k miles on it.
I used the method of the 22” short socket and stork pliers. (borrowed from a good friend)
The socket was 1/2” drive. approx 29.5 mm wide and 38 mm tall
While attempting the shove / working the socket into place, I manage to snap the nipple of the pcv valve.. ok don’t panic, the socket now fits.. Nipple retrieved, then I removed the valve with socket. While attempting to pull it out with the pliers the metal washer inside the valve fell into the deep valley.. don’t panic it’s harmless.. ok while repositioning the stork pliers and pulling the 1/2 valve out it snapped off the pliers and rolled back into the abyss. I contemplated lossening the upper intake manifold for a few mins and gave up on that.. I tried to fish it out, but the more I fiddled with it the more it rolled back.. So I gave up on retrieving it when I saw where it postioned itself with a mirror..
As I began the resinstall process I was glad I picked up a 3/8” hose line that was heavy duty..
New valve goes onto hose temporarily and I threaded it in.. Again my socket was not cooperating, so I put the temp. hose back on and hand tightened as much as I could and gave it a nudge with the stork pliers..
At this point I was exhausted..!!
The new OEM pcv hose is and very soft and pliable.. that got shoved into place and locked in the new spring clips.. The old hose was rock hard in comparison and I can tell the spring was no longer doing its job on the hardened edges... Makes sense after 12 years.
Heres the pics did the best I could.. I opted not to touch the unrelated upper vacuum line as I knew it would break off.
Below is a pic I took back in 2016 and where the other half of the pcv valve is now sitting wedged in the hole..
Very Frustrating process to say the least... (for my experience)
Yikes! sounds like a ***** to do......I'm going to have one of the mechanics I know at the dealership do the install for me. I'll find out as soon as I get the valve what he wants to charge to swap it out?
I posted in my build thread but a repost seemed relevant here. Ive been looking into this for a bit and was a bit annoyed how fast the catch can fills up during a track session. I have a 1 qt catch can so its not as bad as it was with the RR racing container but its still a bit of a pain to remember to check it and drain it after a few sessions.
I have come to the conclusion that its not so much the check valve as the air velocity drawing the oil up the rather tiny hose. Think of drinking water out of a normal straw vs a garden hose. The slower moving air of the increased volume will have less energy to carry the liquid oil up the hose to the can. The idea is to more volume available to allow vapor to escape at a lower velocity. I have dealt with crank case blow by road racing Honda's for years and this same idea is how we solve the problem. This stock system with the stock PVC valve and weido hose size is really not ideal in this situation and in my opinion was a sort of a packaging compromise on the Yahama and Lexus side.
To solve this I wanted largest hose you can get going from the separator case to the collector tank.
I bought a new separator case and Dremeled out the threads and lip to make the opening a full 5/8
I then scuffed and tapped the case for a thread or two with a 1/2 NPT tap.
I used a 5/8 inch barbed fitting and JB welded it into the new prepped separator case.
It clears the throttle body and water passage no problem
(old pic of the old catch can set up ill get some current ones soon)
Putting this on the other side of the catchcan meters air coming out of the catch can volume as needed and effectively places the catch can onto the 'hot side' of the system similar to the separator case. The cold side being anything after the PVC. (The new PVC only comes in 3/8 and an6 so it'll need an adapter to jump to the weirdo 1/2 inch size the factory uses for the intake manifold inlet) Its also possible to plug the 1/2 inch port and drill and tap for a 3/8 to not have to use an adapter. i'm going to do some testing and figure out which is the best option, but honestly both will work. Im going to do some testing on track in a couple weeks and expect to see much less blow by, ill keep you all posted.
Thanks for the update on this project! Look forward to your results when you track the car next. I know a lot of guys fill up their AOS quickly when they track......Didn't realize that blow by would be such an issue with the 2UR-GSE when you push it hard. Unless you just stick to no catch can and rely on the stock internal separator that Lexus/Yamaha developed?
Yikes! sounds like a ***** to do......I'm going to have one of the mechanics I know at the dealership do the install for me. I'll find out as soon as I get the valve what he wants to charge to swap it out?
Yes should be an interesting quote, as by the book it requires upper intake plenum removal.
I had no luck with the shallow socket I borrowed.. By the numbers it should have worked.
1/2” drive. approx 29.5 mm wide and 38 mm tall
This socket would be perfect if it were designed with a slot for the nipple
As I was installing a catch can, I blew into and out of the OEM PCV hose...and it blew both ways with barely any pressure (it should seal at least to some extent one way). Taking out the PCV valve is kind of a pain in this car, but it's possible if you disconnect (most) of the wire harness plugs atop and around the manifold (cam sensors, ignition coil plugs, injector module plugs, etc), remove 8 manifold torx bolts and 2 nuts, and disconnect the hard coolant piping on the passenger side and move it over a bit. I was able to access the PCV valve by holding the manifold up with my hand and ratcheting with a 22mm socket.
The PCV makes more noise than expected when shaking. Seems like a bad valve! I'm at 87k miles.
My car has excellent compression (both wet and dry tests, so the rings seem to be sealing since no notable deviation exists between wet and dry--Lance stop chiming in to do a leakdown), has 425whp, 400wtq, and has always driven great. At the track, especially on hot days, my car would start chugging oil after just one session because the RR AOS would overfill and the car would puff clouds. On the street, everything is A okay and the can barely gets a drop after a month with spirited driving. I have a bunch of cooling mods too. I changed the catch can setup to a Mishimoto Baffled can w/copper filter and 5/8 ID hosing with 5/8 to 7/8 adapters to the OEM hosing to the manifold and to the OEM PCV valve hose (which starts at 3/8" at the valve and comes out to 7/8"--to fit onto the manifold originally).
Anyway, does anyone have any info on other PCV valves? I've looked into 2UR-FSE (LS600h) and 3UR-FE (Tundra, LX570) valves and will pick them up next week. I kind of hated removing the valve from this car, so I hope not to go back there again. Hopefully one of the aforementioned valves fits. I'll buy the 2UR-GSE valve as well (they're all ~$10ea).
Part numbers are as follows
12204-38020 (ISF/RCF/GSF/LC500)
12204-38030 (3UR-FE)
12204-38040 (2UR-FSE)
i have special tools to remove that pcv valve without opening any thing
Reading this thread makes me wonder if the AOS is actually needed on the ISF because of the built in system that Lexus put in the 2UR-GSE? I'm definitely going to replace the PCV valve as a maintenance item.
Is there anyway to tell if the PCV valve is stuck in the open position at WOT?
Update:
I did replace the PCV valve last week with one of the master techs @ my local Lexus dealer that I've worked with over the years. We worked after hours and he was able to replace the valve in about 20 minutes with a series of dental picks lol......I know they weren't dental in nature but you get the visual. Anyhow I held back the foam insulation and held the flashlight for him to maneuver and use 2 picks to break it loose then it was pretty easy to pull out once loosened. He repeated the same procedure putting the new one in and was all done in about 20 min
The condition of my old PCV valve @ 116k was still in operating condition and it still rattled but did not sound as good as the new one when you shook it back and forth. So I guess it was still working and doing it's job but I can sleep better knowing that there is a new one installed @ 116k. Also I did take out the 1st gen RR AOS and went back to the stock configuration for now. I might get the RR 2nd gen AOS down the road since it has a larger capacity and is easier to dump out the canister with the new design.
So now I am really curious what Lexus did for their 24 hour race at Thunderhill with the CCS IS F. I can easily see how they could do Pike's Peak without a problem, but a 24 hour endurance race would create the biggest problems for managing blowby. Makes me wonder if they used the OEM piece at all or if they did something entirely different and external to the engine.
Also, I get the analogy to the hose sizing, but you can't evaluate one piece of a system without understanding how it impacts the other elements. I spent a lot of time in a gas analysis laboratory working with extremely high vacuum systems, and gas flow never deviates from the fundamental gas laws which is why you need to consider the entire system. I could turn this into a very long post about why catch cans aren't what they are sold to be, and they need to be engineered to work correctly with the engine or they're just going to be problematic, but that's not what's up today. I will say, the velocity of the gas bears little relationship to the available energy unless you also know the volume of the gas as well, and the smallest component in the system will determine the actual gas flow, not the size of the other parts. That's why the most important part of fixing flow problems with an engine starts with getting the valves and ports right. They're almost invariably the smallest component in the system.
I attempted to do this today, but unfortunately I managed to snap the nipple off the new PCV when tightening it down. Luckily the old PCV (120kmiles) was still in good working condition so it went back in with a new oring and hose.
I had to shave my 22mm socket down from 40mm to 38mm as lobux noted. I was able to get the unmodified socket on the PCV, but it didnt have enough to room to unthread before the socket was wedged onto the pcv
I attempted to do this today, but unfortunately I managed to snap the nipple off the new PCV when tightening it down. Luckily the old PCV (120kmiles) was still in good working condition so it went back in with a new oring and hose.
I had to shave my 22mm socket down from 40mm to 38mm as lobux noted. I was able to get the unmodified socket on the PCV, but it didnt have enough to room to unthread before the socket was wedged onto the pcv
Funny and I managed to snap my old one in the process... The other half is sitting buried in there..
I posted in my build thread but a repost seemed relevant here. Ive been looking into this for a bit and was a bit annoyed how fast the catch can fills up during a track session. I have a 1 qt catch can so its not as bad as it was with the RR racing container but its still a bit of a pain to remember to check it and drain it after a few sessions.
I have come to the conclusion that its not so much the check valve as the air velocity drawing the oil up the rather tiny hose. Think of drinking water out of a normal straw vs a garden hose. The slower moving air of the increased volume will have less energy to carry the liquid oil up the hose to the can. The idea is to more volume available to allow vapor to escape at a lower velocity. I have dealt with crank case blow by road racing Honda's for years and this same idea is how we solve the problem. This stock system with the stock PVC valve and weido hose size is really not ideal in this situation and in my opinion was a sort of a packaging compromise on the Yahama and Lexus side.
To solve this I wanted largest hose you can get going from the separator case to the collector tank.
I bought a new separator case and Dremeled out the threads and lip to make the opening a full 5/8
I then scuffed and tapped the case for a thread or two with a 1/2 NPT tap.
I used a 5/8 inch barbed fitting and JB welded it into the new prepped separator case.
It clears the throttle body and water passage no problem
(old pic of the old catch can set up ill get some current ones soon)
Putting this on the other side of the catchcan meters air coming out of the catch can volume as needed and effectively places the catch can onto the 'hot side' of the system similar to the separator case. The cold side being anything after the PVC. (The new PVC only comes in 3/8 and an6 so it'll need an adapter to jump to the weirdo 1/2 inch size the factory uses for the intake manifold inlet) Its also possible to plug the 1/2 inch port and drill and tap for a 3/8 to not have to use an adapter. i'm going to do some testing and figure out which is the best option, but honestly both will work. Im going to do some testing on track in a couple weeks and expect to see much less blow by, ill keep you all posted.
Really cool to see what you did here. Did this help at all with the catch can issues? I've always been filling the RR racing catch can about half way each session out on a track day and also see the same issues on my buddy's ISF. I'm inclined to say this is a fairly common thing so it would be awesome to see a solution to this.
Semi defeated...
......I'm going to have one of the mechanics I know at the dealership do the install for me. I'll find out as soon as I get the valve what he wants to charge to swap it out?
), has 425whp, 400wtq, and has always driven great. At the track, especially on hot days, my car would start chugging oil after just one session because the RR AOS would overfill and the car would puff clouds. On the street, everything is A okay and the can barely gets a drop after a month with spirited driving. I have a bunch of cooling mods too. I changed the catch can setup to a Mishimoto Baffled can w/copper filter and 5/8 ID hosing with 5/8 to 7/8 adapters to the OEM hosing to the manifold and to the OEM PCV valve hose (which starts at 3/8" at the valve and comes out to 7/8"--to fit onto the manifold originally).
