Lexus isf to camaro zl1....a farewell
09-29-17, 04:38 PM
#61
As a pure track car, you are correct. But as a daily driver, most American cars leave MUCH to be desired.
I think the european market has done the best job of balancing performance and luxury.
I think the european market has done the best job of balancing performance and luxury.
09-29-17, 05:57 PM
#62
Here is how I look at it. The ISF and RCF are *great* cars. In stock form, they are "good" but not "great" track cars. Camaro ILE's and ZL1's are track ready cars that come with aggressive track alignment settings and suspensions, not to mention R-comp tires that will last about 5000miles (or maybe less in the rear
.
If you want to tilt the balance of your ISF to more of a track car, basic alignment, tires, and suspension changes will get you ever bit as much performance as a Camaro SS ILE. In the end of the day though... you are driving a well built and polished 4 door practical family Lexus sedan, and not a GM product, where for all their specs on paper, when you look up close you can see the difference.
As for the supercharged ZL1, for all its great lap times, I bet that there are very few people out there cross shopping Camaros with Porsches, Ferraris, McLarens, Lamborghinis, or for that matter Lexus, BMWs, or Mercs.
And as for supercharging your ISF or RCF, based on our experience, the reasons our customers do it is not so much because they are cross shopping a Lexus with a Camaro, but because they really love many aspects of their Lexus, such as the design, fit, finish, quality, but they simply want to enhance performance. Most off all, they want something unique, something special. Last track day I did, I think I counted something like 8 Corvette C7 Z06's and 4 GT350's. But when you show up at the track, or Cars&Coffee, on a 600+hp supercharged Lexus, half the paddock is wondering, "wow WTF is that?"
Rafi
.If you want to tilt the balance of your ISF to more of a track car, basic alignment, tires, and suspension changes will get you ever bit as much performance as a Camaro SS ILE. In the end of the day though... you are driving a well built and polished 4 door practical family Lexus sedan, and not a GM product, where for all their specs on paper, when you look up close you can see the difference.
As for the supercharged ZL1, for all its great lap times, I bet that there are very few people out there cross shopping Camaros with Porsches, Ferraris, McLarens, Lamborghinis, or for that matter Lexus, BMWs, or Mercs.
And as for supercharging your ISF or RCF, based on our experience, the reasons our customers do it is not so much because they are cross shopping a Lexus with a Camaro, but because they really love many aspects of their Lexus, such as the design, fit, finish, quality, but they simply want to enhance performance. Most off all, they want something unique, something special. Last track day I did, I think I counted something like 8 Corvette C7 Z06's and 4 GT350's. But when you show up at the track, or Cars&Coffee, on a 600+hp supercharged Lexus, half the paddock is wondering, "wow WTF is that?"
Rafi
10-01-17, 07:49 PM
#64
I understand why you left, you made a lot of valid points and I agree with you probably 90% of what you're saying about Lexus dropping ball on perfomance aspect of there line of cars. I think problem why you've gotten some pushback is how you went about it. Like you said a self-professed fanboy an overnight you went from that to basically bashing pretty much your nearly stock 10yr old ISF with just exhaust and tires comparing to current more track focused cars complaining how its not getting the job done.. Once again many feel you never truly maximize the ability of the ISF, because you basically drove your car stock and in order for it to be as competitive as you wanted in todays market you would need to mod the car ie FBO, suspension and Tune. Had you just invest a little into some Figs suspension components and set of headers you would have seen huge improvements. You cant compare 10yr stock sports sedan with current track focused cars. You cant even compare track focused car of 10 yrs ago to current model cars. Take any model 2008 911 porsche and put up against its mordern counter part and see what happens. But you explain why you felt putting in any amount of additional money that would need to be spent on a car of its age wasn't worth it to you, it's your money spend it were you want.
Like you I'm a huge fan of Lexus but I'm frustrated with them as well I truly believe they will never have a track Focus vehicle it's not in the corporate culture is not in their handbook they will only build GT type more on the lines with Mercedes-Benz cars so if you're looking for that type of True-Track Focus car I don't see it happening anytime soon hopefully I'm Wrong.
Back in 2011 when I bought my ISF brand spanking new, I knew exactly what I was looking for if I wanted a track Focus vehicle I would have bought one but I wanted something more of a jack of all trades that would be extremely reliable DD and I think that ISF has hit mark perfectly.
At the end of day its your money and you can spend it were ever you see fit. Its just the way you went about it that have some members annoyed and it has nothing to with that you went with ZL1 plenty of owners have moved on to other platforms GTR,VETTES,PORSCHES once again its how you went about it. And with this latest round of vidoes you sound like you trying to justify your move. You own knowone any explanation you decide to move on its all good.
Enjoy your ZL1, but no more excuses now if your not as competitive lol just busting chops good luck and drive safe.
Like you I'm a huge fan of Lexus but I'm frustrated with them as well I truly believe they will never have a track Focus vehicle it's not in the corporate culture is not in their handbook they will only build GT type more on the lines with Mercedes-Benz cars so if you're looking for that type of True-Track Focus car I don't see it happening anytime soon hopefully I'm Wrong.
Back in 2011 when I bought my ISF brand spanking new, I knew exactly what I was looking for if I wanted a track Focus vehicle I would have bought one but I wanted something more of a jack of all trades that would be extremely reliable DD and I think that ISF has hit mark perfectly.
At the end of day its your money and you can spend it were ever you see fit. Its just the way you went about it that have some members annoyed and it has nothing to with that you went with ZL1 plenty of owners have moved on to other platforms GTR,VETTES,PORSCHES once again its how you went about it. And with this latest round of vidoes you sound like you trying to justify your move. You own knowone any explanation you decide to move on its all good.
Enjoy your ZL1, but no more excuses now if your not as competitive lol just busting chops good luck and drive safe.
Last edited by Weapon F; 10-01-17 at 10:06 PM.
10-01-17, 08:36 PM
#65
There WILL always be something faster. You will probably now find that you are the slowest of the 10 cars at your next track day that have that same motor.
I find the videos very amateur... in fact, for someone that has “24 track days” under their belt(Which some people do in a single year), you don’t really come off as someone that loves motorsports and the track. I’ve been Involved in Autox and track driving my whole adult life and modifying the car and myself as a driver is a constant hobby. You compare a 10 year newer car that basically has been factory modified from its basic rental car model and compare it to your 2008 model that you had no LSD(huge fail for track or autox), and virtually no mods. Apples an Oranges.
Like I said before... you don’t have to justify your decision to anyone. The ZL1 is a powerful car that is very capable on the track, but don’t make yourself look silly with all the videos😂
I find the videos very amateur... in fact, for someone that has “24 track days” under their belt(Which some people do in a single year), you don’t really come off as someone that loves motorsports and the track. I’ve been Involved in Autox and track driving my whole adult life and modifying the car and myself as a driver is a constant hobby. You compare a 10 year newer car that basically has been factory modified from its basic rental car model and compare it to your 2008 model that you had no LSD(huge fail for track or autox), and virtually no mods. Apples an Oranges.
Like I said before... you don’t have to justify your decision to anyone. The ZL1 is a powerful car that is very capable on the track, but don’t make yourself look silly with all the videos😂
10-01-17, 10:15 PM
#67
I8ABMR: Congrats on your car. It's quite exciting.
I have been doing track events for 30 years now (god I feel old). I have had a plethora of cars for the track. One of them was a C6 Z06. 3200 pounds with 550 HP (modified). There were not that many cars that were faster in my group. It got boring. For the last three years I have been running a 21 year old e36 M3 with 198k on the stock motor which i recently rebuilt. I am one of the slower cars now......but I love it. It all depends on what you are looking for. For me it's about having fun, improving my skills, and racing against myself. I love the idea of having an old dog in the fight (or a 4 door sedan). So go enjoy your passion.
I have been doing track events for 30 years now (god I feel old). I have had a plethora of cars for the track. One of them was a C6 Z06. 3200 pounds with 550 HP (modified). There were not that many cars that were faster in my group. It got boring. For the last three years I have been running a 21 year old e36 M3 with 198k on the stock motor which i recently rebuilt. I am one of the slower cars now......but I love it. It all depends on what you are looking for. For me it's about having fun, improving my skills, and racing against myself. I love the idea of having an old dog in the fight (or a 4 door sedan). So go enjoy your passion.
The following 3 users liked this post by Isfast:
10-02-17, 01:55 AM
#68
I8ABMR:
I think you're missing the point when complaining about RC-F / GS-F.
1. Lexus was never going to build any track focused car. Having said that, I completely agree that RC-F is a lost chance - I love its looks and engine, but it should be 200kg lighter. In the form as it's now, it makes no sense to switch IS-F to RC-F
2. When you compare GS-F to M5, there is huge power deficit - but you know what, many people don't care, because GS-F is still fast enough for road and it offers something others don't - N/A V8. We appreciate it in Europe.
3. You wanted something more track focused from factory - I fully support it, as I know that modifying your car can be a pain if not done right. It's why I sold my e90 330i and bought IS-F, as I wanted more power, better brakes and LSD. However if I wanted new track focused car now, I would get an M2 with manual
Anyway, enjoy your Camaro, I really like it and in Europe it would be very exotic to own one, but having an F kicking some BMWs on track is good enough for me
I think you're missing the point when complaining about RC-F / GS-F.
1. Lexus was never going to build any track focused car. Having said that, I completely agree that RC-F is a lost chance - I love its looks and engine, but it should be 200kg lighter. In the form as it's now, it makes no sense to switch IS-F to RC-F
2. When you compare GS-F to M5, there is huge power deficit - but you know what, many people don't care, because GS-F is still fast enough for road and it offers something others don't - N/A V8. We appreciate it in Europe.
3. You wanted something more track focused from factory - I fully support it, as I know that modifying your car can be a pain if not done right. It's why I sold my e90 330i and bought IS-F, as I wanted more power, better brakes and LSD. However if I wanted new track focused car now, I would get an M2 with manual
Anyway, enjoy your Camaro, I really like it and in Europe it would be very exotic to own one, but having an F kicking some BMWs on track is good enough for me
10-02-17, 07:10 AM
#69
There WILL always be something faster. You will probably now find that you are the slowest of the 10 cars at your next track day that have that same motor.
I find the videos very amateur... in fact, for someone that has “24 track days” under their belt(Which some people do in a single year), you don’t really come off as someone that loves motorsports and the track. I’ve been Involved in Autox and track driving my whole adult life and modifying the car and myself as a driver is a constant hobby. You compare a 10 year newer car that basically has been factory modified from its basic rental car model and compare it to your 2008 model that you had no LSD(huge fail for track or autox), and virtually no mods. Apples an Oranges.
Like I said before... you don’t have to justify your decision to anyone. The ZL1 is a powerful car that is very capable on the track, but don’t make yourself look silly with all the videos😂
I find the videos very amateur... in fact, for someone that has “24 track days” under their belt(Which some people do in a single year), you don’t really come off as someone that loves motorsports and the track. I’ve been Involved in Autox and track driving my whole adult life and modifying the car and myself as a driver is a constant hobby. You compare a 10 year newer car that basically has been factory modified from its basic rental car model and compare it to your 2008 model that you had no LSD(huge fail for track or autox), and virtually no mods. Apples an Oranges.
Like I said before... you don’t have to justify your decision to anyone. The ZL1 is a powerful car that is very capable on the track, but don’t make yourself look silly with all the videos😂
10-02-17, 07:22 AM
#70
10-02-17, 07:43 AM
#71
Lexus Test Driver
Please keep us updated on your owner experience. Interested in many levels: your activities, cars performance, track fun, modifications, Camaro's reliability, the Chevy owner's groups/forums, etc.
Be well. Keep the rubber-side down.
Be well. Keep the rubber-side down.
10-04-17, 04:36 AM
#74
