Has anyone thought of E9X M3 before getting the F? Or any previous owners of the M?
09-05-17, 05:34 PM
#16
Driver School Candidate
I've driven both (as well as the comparable C63) when hunting, and for me it came down to the reliability factor. I know the modern BMWs are more reliable than they have been historically, but still was a bit apprehensive. My take on the three is that the M3 is the most track-fun, the C63 is great for just flooring it (that engine and rumble is outstanding) and the IS F is a good mix between the 2. The 2008 -2010 IS Fs are going to ride similarly harsh to an M3, the 2011+ will be a bit softer. Truthfully the M3 is the sportier car compared to an IS F without mods, and the DCT transmission is faster than the IS F's (however reliability is a play as well).
To the rarity point, in 2011 there were 2170 M3s made, and 654 IS F. So very few at your local Cars and Coffee will know what it is.
To the rarity point, in 2011 there were 2170 M3s made, and 654 IS F. So very few at your local Cars and Coffee will know what it is.
09-05-17, 09:26 PM
#17
Driver
Thread Starter
That's crazy for those of you who had to deal with the expensive pain in the a@@ maintenance on the M3's. Everyone will say they are fun cars but better have deep pockets for maintaining and repairs. Obviously the Lexus F will cost too but won't break down on you. I test drove an ISF not long ago and it was an 08 year. Was fun to drive. Funny story to tell you guys. So as my friend and I were leaving the dealer with the F a guy pulls out from a dealer next door in a newer S63 AMG and takes off in front of us. He goes into the left turn lane half a mile down and we decided to go that route as well. So he's in the left lane chilling with his girl and we go on the right side of him and he hears the exhaust of the F (since it had an aftermarket exhaust setup). Dude starts to rev the S63 hard and stops. I look over at my buddy and he said do it lol. Knowing me I dropped it into neutral and revved it a few times to red line and as soon as I stopped, we look over and his girl's jaw dropped and was more impressed with the ISF than the Benz hahah. He pulled up next to us and was like wtf man that's crazy and I took off like no tomorrow lol. Never will forget that day as I made a guy jealous along with his girl of a Lexus that was a fraction of the price of a Mercedes Benz S63 AMG XD. Looking back to that day kind of makes me want that car no lie. I never drove an E92 M3 as much as I want to just to see how it's like behind the wheel of one even though I rode in a couple of them as a passenger. The ride was fun but the F probably will beat it in a race knowing how much torque and horsepower it has with that 8 speed automanual gearbox.
09-05-17, 10:06 PM
#18
That's crazy for those of you who had to deal with the expensive pain in the a@@ maintenance on the M3's. Everyone will say they are fun cars but better have deep pockets for maintaining and repairs. Obviously the Lexus F will cost too but won't break down on you. I test drove an ISF not long ago and it was an 08 year. Was fun to drive. Funny story to tell you guys. So as my friend and I were leaving the dealer with the F a guy pulls out from a dealer next door in a newer S63 AMG and takes off in front of us. He goes into the left turn lane half a mile down and we decided to go that route as well. So he's in the left lane chilling with his girl and we go on the right side of him and he hears the exhaust of the F (since it had an aftermarket exhaust setup). Dude starts to rev the S63 hard and stops. I look over at my buddy and he said do it lol. Knowing me I dropped it into neutral and revved it a few times to red line and as soon as I stopped, we look over and his girl's jaw dropped and was more impressed with the ISF than the Benz hahah. He pulled up next to us and was like wtf man that's crazy and I took off like no tomorrow lol. Never will forget that day as I made a guy jealous along with his girl of a Lexus that was a fraction of the price of a Mercedes Benz S63 AMG XD. Looking back to that day kind of makes me want that car no lie. I never drove an E92 M3 as much as I want to just to see how it's like behind the wheel of one even though I rode in a couple of them as a passenger. The ride was fun but the F probably will beat it in a race knowing how much torque and horsepower it has with that 8 speed automanual gearbox.
V.
10-15-17, 04:56 PM
#20
Driver
Thread Starter
Recent update on this topic. Have been reading up some posts on M3post.com when it comes to this topic and most people were not really hating of the F’s because of their capability to make more power being N/A. But a lot of them did say for some reason that the interior of isf looks plain. Wonder why? Anyways I recently got a chance to drive a buddy’s 2012 F and it felt a whole lot different than the 2008. Still am trying to figure out if it’s worth pulling the trigger on an M3 and see where it takes me or skip the worries and pick up an F. I know you guys will say get the F but need a good reasoning of it. On a side note i read on the M3post forum that some owners had F’s before and jumped into M3’s again. Really appreciate the inputs so far. Both are good competitors but only 1 can be chosen.
10-15-17, 07:01 PM
#21
Driver School Candidate
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I owned an E90 M3 for exactly 5 days and ended up returning it. It was a used 2011 with 24k miles and it was the most fun car I've ever driven. In the 5 days, it had 2 oil leaks, no bass on speakers, and tpms went out. Was preparing to proactively replace the rod bearings (about $1700) and realized that maybe I had made a mistake. I still miss the car, but I'll be getting my IS-F in a couple of weeks. I also own a 2011 C63 AMG and that car is a blast to accelerate, but I don't feel like it's a drivers car. I still find myself online looking at used E90 M3's though. Maybe someday... One thing I've noticed is that for some reason the E93's are a lot less expensive.
10-15-17, 07:15 PM
#22
Recent update on this topic. Have been reading up some posts on M3post.com when it comes to this topic and most people were not really hating of the F’s because of their capability to make more power being N/A. But a lot of them did say for some reason that the interior of isf looks plain. Wonder why? Anyways I recently got a chance to drive a buddy’s 2012 F and it felt a whole lot different than the 2008. Still am trying to figure out if it’s worth pulling the trigger on an M3 and see where it takes me or skip the worries and pick up an F. I know you guys will say get the F but need a good reasoning of it. On a side note i read on the M3post forum that some owners had F’s before and jumped into M3’s again. Really appreciate the inputs so far. Both are good competitors but only 1 can be chosen.
10-15-17, 07:36 PM
#23
So it looks like you've done your research and what it really comes down to his preference reliability wise the ISF does have advantage over the M3's but the later M3 definitely improved in equality over earlier models and are not as problematic as the earlier models were. You also have to ask yourself will you be keeping the car pretty much stock with some slight mods or do you want to go really heavy into the modding game. Both models have their pros and cons in my opinion here's a quick breakdown of the differences between the two let's start with the M3.
M3 E90,92 and 93
1.The rarest M3 in USA is the E90 slight over 5k here just like ISF. From the latest that was able to gather a few years ago something like close to 60,000 M3 cars were made during its life cycle.
2. Modding M3 wins in this department they're just more companies that have custom body kits, carbon fiber parts, exhaust, Tunes, rims etc. So if you plan to heavily modify your car then you may want to look at them three this just more available.
3. Reliability as discussed earlier the first few years saw several issues with the M3 but towards the end of it life cycle a lot of those issues were cleared up but that being said they still do have problems and parts on BMW are notoriously expensive so is labor so that's another consideration when purchasing a German car out of warranty and if you plan to modded and things break they get very very expensive really quick.
4. M3 great track toy very well-balanced easy car to drive at the limits so if you plan to spend a lot of track time then it's a great car to pick. But if you plan to daily drive this car then I'm not sure I would want to daily drive an M3 are very long commute on a daily basis not that I can't do it just that the wear and tear and the expensive parts can become an issue.
5. Cool Factor for me I've always liked the E90 series body and as you see less and less of them and you see the new F body and cars I'm kind of liking the E90 series more and more that's just me.
6. Very good power especially when you have it screaming at 8000 RPMs but the lack of torque is also an issue you have to keep the car in the right rev band in order to keep the power coming. Which can be fun but at the same time if your daily driving the car can be a bit of a pain in the ***.
7. Overall than three in all its variants is a great car awesome platform fun to drive easy to mod but will most likely be more expensive to maintain over the long run.
IS-F
1.Rarity total number made worldwide production 11600, imported to the US 5116 what are actually left running on the road as of 2017, of that 5116 I'd Hazard to guess to say probably around 4000 or so still on road. So as far as Rarity is concerned ISF is much rarer than any M3 except for probably the E90.
2. Modding as far as modding is concerned there are not as many companies producing parts for the ISF because of its small production run so that means less body kits less rims best companies creating Tunes etc. Now that doesn't mean that there are no parts available and the last two to three years as the popularity of the ISF has actually picked up companies have creating custom parts for the ISF rims exhaust body kits Etc now there may not be as many available for the ISF as they are for the M3 but they are out there except for one area that being tuning. There is currently only one real reputable company out there for the ISF and that's RR RACING. Fortunately for us they are great vendor and committed not only to the ISF but all the F models in the Lexus family. And as far as things like exhaust go there over a dozen companies that make exhaust systems for the ISF three companies that make headers PPE sikky and Novell. You have a company like figs engineering that makes a myriad of suspension components for the ISF several of which I have on my car so there is mod support out there just not as great as for the M3.
3. Reliability that's one area where the ISF definitely has a leg up on the M3 not to say the ISF is not without problems it does have some issues it's not perfect but it's definitely more reliable than the M3 the three biggest issues to date with the ISF were the water pump issues with the earlier model 08',09' and some 10' most if not all reflects through warranties, Some models experience Valley plate leaks and the latest thing that's come up a few have had manifold exhaust cracks. Now these issues do occur but are small percentage of ISF but they are out there. In the grand scheme of things ISF still is bit more reliable then the M3. And when things do break they are not as expensive to repair ,you don't get hit with the BMW tax.
4. The ISF is the ultimate jack of all trades it can be easily tracked as many members here can attest to including myself my eyes stuff has been on Monticello Lime Rock and you Jersey Motorsports way. Its great to daily driver that's what I use mine for with 85000 miles on it and still pulls like Beast and howls like a monster. It can tear up the streets just like to see C63 can with a great V8 Rumble of its own, especially when you've modified it like mine which is FBO plus tune sounds beastly.
5. Cool Factor very high each year that goes by you see less and less ISF and like I stated earlier with only 5116 being imported into the US it's a very rare car indeed. I live in the tri-state area of New York and sometimes I will literally see one or two a year. I have friends who are into cars as well and say they literally will only see one once year or less. Unless you live on the West Coast especially in the LA region or Southern California where the highest percentages of ISF are you won't see them very often. Even after owning this car for 7 years since 2011 I still get thumbs up I still get looks and questions at gas stations. Two years pulling out I was pulling out of gas station a police squad car was pulling in the officer roll down his window and said can I take a look at your car he had never seen one in person he was a young officer I said sure he parked I parked he checked out my car he sat in it we chatted while he was on his break cool officer. Another time I was pulled over for going slightly over the speed limit LOL I pulled over immediately turned off the car put on my lights roll down my windows waiting for the officer to come he asked me where I was coming from I explain to him that I was coming from work that I work for the state and had to be back at work at 7 a.m. because of governor was coming in into a location which was true he was really cool about he looked at my state work ID and he let me go but before he let me go he said I that he was glad that I pulled over so fast cuz there was no way in hell that he could catch me he complimented me on how the car sounded and looked I laughed and thank him for the compliment and for letting me go with no ticket. One more thing the ISF is now becoming more and more popular people who used to own them are buying them back again others like you are looking to purchase them for first time so yes I think the cool factor is very high.
6. The ISF has good Power stock most around the 350whp Mark give or take a few hp up or down. One of the best things about the ISF is how well it was sponce to mods with just headers full Cat-Back exhaust intake in general the cars are making 400whp some more some slightly less. So full bolt on you're gaining around from 50whp in general that's amazing add a tune you got another nice little bump up and in horsepower but more importantly better mid-range and low range punch you can even increase the rev limiter with that tune mine is currently set at 7200 RPM. And if you like nitrous oxide no worries ISF just loves it you can bolt on nitrous with no modifications needed other than the typical stuff like a window switch colder spark plugs etc. The ECU adjust for the nitrous once again which is really on heard of with too big of a shot 150 would do you just nice there's tons of information on this board regarding nitrous. So the power Department oh yeah it's definitely there the only difference between this and M3 is transmission. The M3 has the DCT which is a much faster shifting transmission but the direction shift 8 speed tranny on our ISF is not bad at all and in Street driving conditions even spirited driving Condition it's not that much of a difference.
7. Overall the ISF is a great platform just like the M3 both have their strengths both have their weaknesses both are cool badass cars you couldn't go wrong with either one. good luck with your choice it's going to be a tough one. Hopefully this helps
Dave.
M3 E90,92 and 93
1.The rarest M3 in USA is the E90 slight over 5k here just like ISF. From the latest that was able to gather a few years ago something like close to 60,000 M3 cars were made during its life cycle.
2. Modding M3 wins in this department they're just more companies that have custom body kits, carbon fiber parts, exhaust, Tunes, rims etc. So if you plan to heavily modify your car then you may want to look at them three this just more available.
3. Reliability as discussed earlier the first few years saw several issues with the M3 but towards the end of it life cycle a lot of those issues were cleared up but that being said they still do have problems and parts on BMW are notoriously expensive so is labor so that's another consideration when purchasing a German car out of warranty and if you plan to modded and things break they get very very expensive really quick.
4. M3 great track toy very well-balanced easy car to drive at the limits so if you plan to spend a lot of track time then it's a great car to pick. But if you plan to daily drive this car then I'm not sure I would want to daily drive an M3 are very long commute on a daily basis not that I can't do it just that the wear and tear and the expensive parts can become an issue.
5. Cool Factor for me I've always liked the E90 series body and as you see less and less of them and you see the new F body and cars I'm kind of liking the E90 series more and more that's just me.
6. Very good power especially when you have it screaming at 8000 RPMs but the lack of torque is also an issue you have to keep the car in the right rev band in order to keep the power coming. Which can be fun but at the same time if your daily driving the car can be a bit of a pain in the ***.
7. Overall than three in all its variants is a great car awesome platform fun to drive easy to mod but will most likely be more expensive to maintain over the long run.
IS-F
1.Rarity total number made worldwide production 11600, imported to the US 5116 what are actually left running on the road as of 2017, of that 5116 I'd Hazard to guess to say probably around 4000 or so still on road. So as far as Rarity is concerned ISF is much rarer than any M3 except for probably the E90.
2. Modding as far as modding is concerned there are not as many companies producing parts for the ISF because of its small production run so that means less body kits less rims best companies creating Tunes etc. Now that doesn't mean that there are no parts available and the last two to three years as the popularity of the ISF has actually picked up companies have creating custom parts for the ISF rims exhaust body kits Etc now there may not be as many available for the ISF as they are for the M3 but they are out there except for one area that being tuning. There is currently only one real reputable company out there for the ISF and that's RR RACING. Fortunately for us they are great vendor and committed not only to the ISF but all the F models in the Lexus family. And as far as things like exhaust go there over a dozen companies that make exhaust systems for the ISF three companies that make headers PPE sikky and Novell. You have a company like figs engineering that makes a myriad of suspension components for the ISF several of which I have on my car so there is mod support out there just not as great as for the M3.
3. Reliability that's one area where the ISF definitely has a leg up on the M3 not to say the ISF is not without problems it does have some issues it's not perfect but it's definitely more reliable than the M3 the three biggest issues to date with the ISF were the water pump issues with the earlier model 08',09' and some 10' most if not all reflects through warranties, Some models experience Valley plate leaks and the latest thing that's come up a few have had manifold exhaust cracks. Now these issues do occur but are small percentage of ISF but they are out there. In the grand scheme of things ISF still is bit more reliable then the M3. And when things do break they are not as expensive to repair ,you don't get hit with the BMW tax.
4. The ISF is the ultimate jack of all trades it can be easily tracked as many members here can attest to including myself my eyes stuff has been on Monticello Lime Rock and you Jersey Motorsports way. Its great to daily driver that's what I use mine for with 85000 miles on it and still pulls like Beast and howls like a monster. It can tear up the streets just like to see C63 can with a great V8 Rumble of its own, especially when you've modified it like mine which is FBO plus tune sounds beastly.
5. Cool Factor very high each year that goes by you see less and less ISF and like I stated earlier with only 5116 being imported into the US it's a very rare car indeed. I live in the tri-state area of New York and sometimes I will literally see one or two a year. I have friends who are into cars as well and say they literally will only see one once year or less. Unless you live on the West Coast especially in the LA region or Southern California where the highest percentages of ISF are you won't see them very often. Even after owning this car for 7 years since 2011 I still get thumbs up I still get looks and questions at gas stations. Two years pulling out I was pulling out of gas station a police squad car was pulling in the officer roll down his window and said can I take a look at your car he had never seen one in person he was a young officer I said sure he parked I parked he checked out my car he sat in it we chatted while he was on his break cool officer. Another time I was pulled over for going slightly over the speed limit LOL I pulled over immediately turned off the car put on my lights roll down my windows waiting for the officer to come he asked me where I was coming from I explain to him that I was coming from work that I work for the state and had to be back at work at 7 a.m. because of governor was coming in into a location which was true he was really cool about he looked at my state work ID and he let me go but before he let me go he said I that he was glad that I pulled over so fast cuz there was no way in hell that he could catch me he complimented me on how the car sounded and looked I laughed and thank him for the compliment and for letting me go with no ticket. One more thing the ISF is now becoming more and more popular people who used to own them are buying them back again others like you are looking to purchase them for first time so yes I think the cool factor is very high.
6. The ISF has good Power stock most around the 350whp Mark give or take a few hp up or down. One of the best things about the ISF is how well it was sponce to mods with just headers full Cat-Back exhaust intake in general the cars are making 400whp some more some slightly less. So full bolt on you're gaining around from 50whp in general that's amazing add a tune you got another nice little bump up and in horsepower but more importantly better mid-range and low range punch you can even increase the rev limiter with that tune mine is currently set at 7200 RPM. And if you like nitrous oxide no worries ISF just loves it you can bolt on nitrous with no modifications needed other than the typical stuff like a window switch colder spark plugs etc. The ECU adjust for the nitrous once again which is really on heard of with too big of a shot 150 would do you just nice there's tons of information on this board regarding nitrous. So the power Department oh yeah it's definitely there the only difference between this and M3 is transmission. The M3 has the DCT which is a much faster shifting transmission but the direction shift 8 speed tranny on our ISF is not bad at all and in Street driving conditions even spirited driving Condition it's not that much of a difference.
7. Overall the ISF is a great platform just like the M3 both have their strengths both have their weaknesses both are cool badass cars you couldn't go wrong with either one. good luck with your choice it's going to be a tough one. Hopefully this helps
Dave.
The following 3 users liked this post by Weapon F:
10-15-17, 08:44 PM
#24
Driver
Thread Starter
WeaponF i totally just got my mind blown reading your comments about everything. Wasn’t expecting a long reply but wow you pretty much said it. The M3 does bring the wow factor when enjoying it at the high RPM range. Kinda sucks that they will bite you in the a** when it comes to maintenance time. There aren’t that many ISF’s around my area (Chicago) but i know a few owners who are in a group i started with someone fir IS models in Chicagoland. One of my close friends has an 08 E92 M3 in 6mt and he already has 77k miles on it and is starting to feel a loss of power gradually (most likely throttle actuators). Car is fun to ride in but is it really worth the headaches of not driving it? Funny I say that, one guy in the topic of M3 vs ISF said if you got the money, why should you worry about it? You can afford it right? I guess it sounds like he doesn’t care about having his car at the shop. All the F owners i spoke with had no issues with theirs. Except for one buddy i know who had his top end of the motor rebuilt because it was acting up at 60k miles and Lexus stepped in and took care of it. Only one thing i dislike about Lexus is their customer service at corporate. On my 07 is250 I had my digitizer go bad on the navigation unit 2 times. Called Lexus about it and they wanted me to take it to any local dealer and pay a diagnostic fee to have someone look at it by getting in my car and tapping the screen to just say yup it’s broken (which I didn’t do). I complained to them that they were at fault for designing it and making it, especially what idiot decided to put climate control in a screen? Screen goes bad you’re screwed. I am at 158K on my is250 right now but it’s such a slow boring car already lol. Originally had wanted a is350 but couldn’t find one for a good price. So i settled with a 250 but i only told myself it was going to be temporary. I still stop and stare any ISF i see on the road haha. I guess i need to keep watching more YouTube cideos of M3’s getting their butts kicked by the 2ur-gse haha. Seems like it’s all starting to come together now.
10-15-17, 08:54 PM
#25
Adzui: see 'Stealership' thread: good ones will take care of you (and handle at the corporate level), ****ty ones wont. Do some research and find one which you have if plan on getting it serviced there. lol
Also: Join local lexus groups on facebook or whatever to meet people that can tell you that if you are serious about the car.
Also: Join local lexus groups on facebook or whatever to meet people that can tell you that if you are serious about the car.
10-16-17, 03:13 PM
#26
Driver
Thread Starter
I actually am a part of Lexus IS Freaks, Lexus IS Owners Club, and i started a group with someone for the Chicago chapter of the IS models out here. There is one service advisor I had dealt with at McGrath Lexus of Chicago who had helped me out with getting a new dashboard for my IS250 after he saw it was cracked. So that was a nice thing of him and the dealer to help out on that. Kinda sucks they can’t replace my door panels and fix the cam gear issue but it’s fine I can live with it for a while before I upgrade
10-18-17, 01:19 PM
#27
That's crazy for those of you who had to deal with the expensive pain in the a@@ maintenance on the M3's. Everyone will say they are fun cars but better have deep pockets for maintaining and repairs. Obviously the Lexus F will cost too but won't break down on you. I test drove an ISF not long ago and it was an 08 year. Was fun to drive. Funny story to tell you guys. So as my friend and I were leaving the dealer with the F a guy pulls out from a dealer next door in a newer S63 AMG and takes off in front of us. He goes into the left turn lane half a mile down and we decided to go that route as well. So he's in the left lane chilling with his girl and we go on the right side of him and he hears the exhaust of the F (since it had an aftermarket exhaust setup). Dude starts to rev the S63 hard and stops. I look over at my buddy and he said do it lol. Knowing me I dropped it into neutral and revved it a few times to red line and as soon as I stopped, we look over and his girl's jaw dropped and was more impressed with the ISF than the Benz hahah. He pulled up next to us and was like wtf man that's crazy and I took off like no tomorrow lol. Never will forget that day as I made a guy jealous along with his girl of a Lexus that was a fraction of the price of a Mercedes Benz S63 AMG XD. Looking back to that day kind of makes me want that car no lie. I never drove an E92 M3 as much as I want to just to see how it's like behind the wheel of one even though I rode in a couple of them as a passenger. The ride was fun but the F probably will beat it in a race knowing how much torque and horsepower it has with that 8 speed automanual gearbox.
It honestly is going to come down to preference really. Both cars have their respect strengths, both have their respective weaknesses as well. Only things I really like better about the M3 is I thought the audio was better, driving factor and options were better, and the interior I did like more.... but the lexus wins in reliability hands down and that is a difference maker when daily driving both cars like I did. Cost own ownership is a factor a lot of folks don't factor. But they both are fun cars
Last edited by jdmSW20; 10-18-17 at 01:24 PM.
10-18-17, 03:56 PM
#28
I had E46 M3 long time ago, then e92 335 sport pack, then AP2 S2k. As much as I loved S2k (in 10 years car had 1 thermostat replaced for $100 bucks lol), it was time to switch cars again. e92 M3 and ISF were on the list.....I hate car issues and constant dealer visits and got scared of buying an e92 M3 without warranty, couldn't find any local ISFs that I liked, so I bought near brand new M235i with M-LSD and M2 exhaust. Been over a year now and I am really happy with purchase and reliability and free maintenance. So perhaps consider one too....Stock is roughly the same performance as ISF, Stage 1 ($350 mod) should be faster and much lighter
Last edited by kolyan; 10-18-17 at 06:09 PM.
10-19-17, 01:54 PM
#29
Driver
Thread Starter
The M3 does have a bit of a different feel than an ISF. Like mentioned above, except the ones i rode in were 6mt. Damn why does this have to be difficult? Both are nice cars but which one will give me the most excitement? People say both options but it’s so hard when you have 2 good competitors to choose from.
10-19-17, 02:47 PM
#30
The M3 does have a bit of a different feel than an ISF. Like mentioned above, except the ones i rode in were 6mt. Damn why does this have to be difficult? Both are nice cars but which one will give me the most excitement? People say both options but it’s so hard when you have 2 good competitors to choose from.
Last edited by kolyan; 10-19-17 at 02:52 PM.