Thoughts on how the IS-F will hold it's value over the next few years?
03-16-17, 01:50 PM
#31
No one here has a crystal ball including myself however you can look at some past stats to determine why a car goes up in value, of course not every car satisfies every criteria but dot the right boxes and you have the beginnings of a winner:
- Rarity in production numbers
- Manual Transmission
- Easy to repair/maintain (doesn't require a PhD degree)
- Specific colors
- Low mileage (this is a no brainer)
- Original paint, no accidents
- Well documented history
If you look at the current top cars on the market that command top dollar, they usually fit into one or more of the above categories. Cars we know are hot items include:
Ford GT / Ford Raptors
MKIV Supra
1st gen NSX
S2000 CR
E30 / E36 BMW M3
BMW M1
Porsche
Ferrari Stradale
Ferrari Speciale
Ferrari 430 (with manual tranny)
Ferrari Aperta
Audi R8 v10 (gated shifter)
Now if we look at the IS-F, it does satisfy some of those requirements. Being the first ever Lexus muscle car with the V8 and being virtually an "unknown" fighter in this realm makes it pretty rare. The V8 motor, chassis and relatively low maintenance makes this a highly desirable sport sedan. Minus some negatives (small trunk, no fold down rear seats) are the minor gripes I had with this car but otherwise it makes for a great DD.
I know the IS-F never came with a manual tranny and probably should not given it's luxury nature. But having said that MANY cars with a manual tranny will continue to appreciate simply for the fact they are no longer really made for sports cars. Yes you can find a few here and there but for modern "exotic" sports cars only Porsche is continuing this tradition. Audi had a gem with their previous generation R8 V10's with their gated shifter but they gave up on this market in 2017 as well sadly.
My best guess is if you take a last year IS-F and pick the USB or SFP colors, keep it low mileage with no accidents or tacky mods, I think you have a winner. Not sure how many 2014's Lexus made but this is definitely not a car that pops up very often for sale nor just on the road itself. I know color is always subjective but past history shows the White car is one of the most desirable. The USB just being a unique IS-F color I think would also fetch good money.
Again these are just my 2 cents
- Rarity in production numbers
- Manual Transmission
- Easy to repair/maintain (doesn't require a PhD degree)
- Specific colors
- Low mileage (this is a no brainer)
- Original paint, no accidents
- Well documented history
If you look at the current top cars on the market that command top dollar, they usually fit into one or more of the above categories. Cars we know are hot items include:
Ford GT / Ford Raptors
MKIV Supra
1st gen NSX
S2000 CR
E30 / E36 BMW M3
BMW M1
Porsche
Ferrari Stradale
Ferrari Speciale
Ferrari 430 (with manual tranny)
Ferrari Aperta
Audi R8 v10 (gated shifter)
Now if we look at the IS-F, it does satisfy some of those requirements. Being the first ever Lexus muscle car with the V8 and being virtually an "unknown" fighter in this realm makes it pretty rare. The V8 motor, chassis and relatively low maintenance makes this a highly desirable sport sedan. Minus some negatives (small trunk, no fold down rear seats) are the minor gripes I had with this car but otherwise it makes for a great DD.
I know the IS-F never came with a manual tranny and probably should not given it's luxury nature. But having said that MANY cars with a manual tranny will continue to appreciate simply for the fact they are no longer really made for sports cars. Yes you can find a few here and there but for modern "exotic" sports cars only Porsche is continuing this tradition. Audi had a gem with their previous generation R8 V10's with their gated shifter but they gave up on this market in 2017 as well sadly.
My best guess is if you take a last year IS-F and pick the USB or SFP colors, keep it low mileage with no accidents or tacky mods, I think you have a winner. Not sure how many 2014's Lexus made but this is definitely not a car that pops up very often for sale nor just on the road itself. I know color is always subjective but past history shows the White car is one of the most desirable. The USB just being a unique IS-F color I think would also fetch good money.
Again these are just my 2 cents
Last edited by s4play; 03-16-17 at 01:56 PM.
03-16-17, 02:56 PM
#32
It seems recently that being a 2014 F is a negative. Sellers are trying to get too high prices for them that are too close to a new RCF or M3 and honestly there's not enough to differentiate a 14 from a 12/13 and barely enough to differentiate it from a 11 that can be picked up for 20k less.
The funny thing about the above comments is that in order to keep the miles low for resale you get less enjoyment out of the car. The age old dilemma...Personally, I think unless you have a car that is actually APPRECIATING, you might as well drive it! It's almost surprising how many Fs are low mileage non daily drivers. They are not thaaat special. That and unlike the Germans, the Fs don't have finite lifespans.
Another thing is that many enthusiasts don't even think of the F when shopping because of its rarity it's off the radar. Heck, I considered every ISF competitor when shopping for my current car and only saw the light when I happened to see an ISF sitting on a local used car lot and immediately realized the F fit every bill I was looking for. Literally when I drove by that Audi lot, the car gods ripped my head around to show me the light!!
The funny thing about the above comments is that in order to keep the miles low for resale you get less enjoyment out of the car. The age old dilemma...Personally, I think unless you have a car that is actually APPRECIATING, you might as well drive it! It's almost surprising how many Fs are low mileage non daily drivers. They are not thaaat special
. That and unlike the Germans, the Fs don't have finite lifespans.Another thing is that many enthusiasts don't even think of the F when shopping because of its rarity it's off the radar. Heck, I considered every ISF competitor when shopping for my current car and only saw the light when I happened to see an ISF sitting on a local used car lot and immediately realized the F fit every bill I was looking for. Literally when I drove by that Audi lot, the car gods ripped my head around to show me the light!!
Last edited by Jz39; 03-16-17 at 03:02 PM.
03-16-17, 07:07 PM
#33
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
I have that MkIV Supra with a hard top and 6 speed. I'm driving it exclusively this week because I am waiting for new fans for my IS F. Seriously though, manual transmissions are for the dim witted. Nothing beats paddle shifting, and I learned to drive a clutch when I was 6 years old in the barnyard on a Ford Model 8n 50 years ago. It's not like I don't know how or have never owned a manual. The first auto gearbox I owned by choice was my 2006 IS350. Maybe the guys buying these things are nostalgic, but manuals are horrible compared to the auto in the IS F or a DCT. It's amazing to me people would pay more for something that is clearly lacks performance.
All that said, I still doubt the IS F will ever garner the respect the MkIV Supra has unless there is a movie with an IS F in it. Look at the difference in price between a MkIV Supra and an SC300. Not very different cars at all, but huge chasm in price these days all because of the Fast n' Furious.
All that said, I still doubt the IS F will ever garner the respect the MkIV Supra has unless there is a movie with an IS F in it. Look at the difference in price between a MkIV Supra and an SC300. Not very different cars at all, but huge chasm in price these days all because of the Fast n' Furious.
03-16-17, 07:23 PM
#34
Yes, paddle shifters are superior for performance, but there is still nothing better than a perfect heel toe rev matched shift! The F would be amazingly fun with a stick. That being said, since I already have a stick second car, I would probably have chosen the ISF with paddles regardless. As long as I have A stick car, I'm ok.
03-16-17, 11:57 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
A buddy who had an F just tried to buy another and said the prices are way too high and bought a CTSV. Too bad because his F was one of the cleanest I have ever seen.
03-17-17, 09:04 AM
#36
Paddle shifters are superior in almost every aspect from a performance standpoint. However, they are so boring to drive. Nothing beats the fun of rowing through the gears and heal/toe shifting at the right time. Anyone can "click a paddle" but being able to drive a 6-speed manual well takes a bit of skill.
just my .02
just my .02
03-17-17, 09:38 AM
#37
I have that MkIV Supra with a hard top and 6 speed. I'm driving it exclusively this week because I am waiting for new fans for my IS F. Seriously though, manual transmissions are for the dim witted. Nothing beats paddle shifting, and I learned to drive a clutch when I was 6 years old in the barnyard on a Ford Model 8n 50 years ago. It's not like I don't know how or have never owned a manual. The first auto gearbox I owned by choice was my 2006 IS350. Maybe the guys buying these things are nostalgic, but manuals are horrible compared to the auto in the IS F or a DCT. It's amazing to me people would pay more for something that is clearly lacks performance.
All that said, I still doubt the IS F will ever garner the respect the MkIV Supra has unless there is a movie with an IS F in it. Look at the difference in price between a MkIV Supra and an SC300. Not very different cars at all, but huge chasm in price these days all because of the Fast n' Furious.
All that said, I still doubt the IS F will ever garner the respect the MkIV Supra has unless there is a movie with an IS F in it. Look at the difference in price between a MkIV Supra and an SC300. Not very different cars at all, but huge chasm in price these days all because of the Fast n' Furious.
On top of that, even today's 2011+ ISF performance is not that great compared to new generation cars, and its only going to fall behind even more with years. And then you have automatic Lexus thats not a joy to drive due lack of manual and even with quick shift automatic it will still fall behind everyone else in performance.
Getting bored with auto box in ISF within a year of driving is my #1 concern
Last edited by kolyan; 03-17-17 at 09:51 AM.
03-17-17, 09:43 AM
#38
FORGET PERFORMANCE FOR A SECOND ON THE RACETRACK!
Not many people are hardcore racers and even then, it's proven the 6-speed is more "engaging" on the racetrack. Driving a paddle shift car fast on the race track doesn't require as much skill and there is no debating that over a manual.
This thread was about holding value over the years and it's a proven fact the manual tranny cars will almost ALWAYS command more money.
F430 in paddle is almost $100k less in some cases
R8 6-speed gated shifter is a treasured item if you can even find one these days
Besides the Americans (Vette and Viper) none of these exotics can be had with a manual anymore. Porsche is the only one to step up to the plate and again their cars sell for OVER MSRP. Just look at the 991R - MSRP was around $180, they are commanding $500k on used market.
There is a place for everything and paddle shift cars have their place for sure. But in terms of resale value the 3-pedal car will always be king!
Not many people are hardcore racers and even then, it's proven the 6-speed is more "engaging" on the racetrack. Driving a paddle shift car fast on the race track doesn't require as much skill and there is no debating that over a manual.
This thread was about holding value over the years and it's a proven fact the manual tranny cars will almost ALWAYS command more money.
F430 in paddle is almost $100k less in some cases
R8 6-speed gated shifter is a treasured item if you can even find one these days
Besides the Americans (Vette and Viper) none of these exotics can be had with a manual anymore. Porsche is the only one to step up to the plate and again their cars sell for OVER MSRP. Just look at the 991R - MSRP was around $180, they are commanding $500k on used market.
There is a place for everything and paddle shift cars have their place for sure. But in terms of resale value the 3-pedal car will always be king!
03-17-17, 10:07 AM
#39
FORGET PERFORMANCE FOR A SECOND ON THE RACETRACK!
Not many people are hardcore racers and even then, it's proven the 6-speed is more "engaging" on the racetrack. Driving a paddle shift car fast on the race track doesn't require as much skill and there is no debating that over a manual.
This thread was about holding value over the years and it's a proven fact the manual tranny cars will almost ALWAYS command more money.
F430 in paddle is almost $100k less in some cases
R8 6-speed gated shifter is a treasured item if you can even find one these days
Besides the Americans (Vette and Viper) none of these exotics can be had with a manual anymore. Porsche is the only one to step up to the plate and again their cars sell for OVER MSRP. Just look at the 991R - MSRP was around $180, they are commanding $500k on used market.
There is a place for everything and paddle shift cars have their place for sure. But in terms of resale value the 3-pedal car will always be king!
Not many people are hardcore racers and even then, it's proven the 6-speed is more "engaging" on the racetrack. Driving a paddle shift car fast on the race track doesn't require as much skill and there is no debating that over a manual.
This thread was about holding value over the years and it's a proven fact the manual tranny cars will almost ALWAYS command more money.
F430 in paddle is almost $100k less in some cases
R8 6-speed gated shifter is a treasured item if you can even find one these days
Besides the Americans (Vette and Viper) none of these exotics can be had with a manual anymore. Porsche is the only one to step up to the plate and again their cars sell for OVER MSRP. Just look at the 991R - MSRP was around $180, they are commanding $500k on used market.
There is a place for everything and paddle shift cars have their place for sure. But in terms of resale value the 3-pedal car will always be king!
03-17-17, 11:49 AM
#40
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
I really have my doubts about the longevity factor with manuals. Just like coin collection has become a thing of the past, I won't be surprised when the last generation who grew up with manuals goes away and there are no more manual drivers. The other thing to keep in mind about pricing and values - the people with the most money set the price. Right now, those are baby boomers looking for their lost youth. It won't last too much longer. 10 years tops.
03-17-17, 01:21 PM
#41
I think it will be difficult to gauge exactly where the ISF lands in terms of value when it becomes a collectible. The only thing we can be reasonably certain is that it will have collectible status at some point in the future. Certainly it will not be grouped in with sports cars (manual or otherwise) and 2-door coupes which normally command higher values as they age, rather it will be in a group of desirable sport sedans. I am reasonably confident it will maintain satisfying values for those that chose to maintain their vehicles in reasonable condition and mileage. My guess is that it's value will follow a track similar to that of the more common (small block well equipped) muscle cars as opposed to the rare (hemi cuda, Shelby cobra, 427 Camaro, etc) cars which command very high prices. I also don't think you can use exotic car value trending to predict where the ISF will land in the future. As nice as it is, it is still simply a modern day muscle car (although a super handling one) and not what you could call an exotic or elite sports car a la Ferrari, Porsche, R8 etc.
03-17-17, 06:24 PM
#42
after the Apocalypse I have this image in my mind that i'll have a need to bring out my car out of storage to hunt down some very bad people; as i drive off, the parking attendant at the storage facially will say, "there goes the last of the manual transmission cars". they are a dying breed.
03-17-17, 09:09 PM
#43
I see everyone mentioning that because it doesn't have a manual transmission it will hurt the appreciating factor.... But wasn't this the first sports car with an 8 speed transmission?? Wouldn't that help garner the respect and desirability in say 20 years? I think this car will definitely appreciate over time, but I'm a lil bias as I think most of us are.
03-17-17, 09:50 PM
#44
Intermediate
I agree with s4play that manuals almost always command a premium, but that doesn't mean auto cars are not collectible. CLEAN, low mileage auto MKIV TT Supras command very high prices, less than the 6MT, for sure, but OMG-type pricing nevertheless. Remember, the Buick Grand National never came with a manual transmission.
I also agree with lobuxracer. I don't believe manuals will command a premium in the future. As has been noted, hardly anyone builds manuals anymore. Of those that do, paddle shifted cars are sold in far greater volumes than our beloved manuals. I've already posted an article about the dearth of manuals in 2017. Just think what it will be like in 2027 if Lance's prediction is correct, and I fear that it will be. Because the IS-F never came with a manual (like the Buick GN), I don't believe its future value will suffer because of that fact and the fact that manual cars are already a dying breed.
Quick aside. Some of you, maybe most, probably saw the news report where a carjacker killed the driver of a car in front of his wife and child because the car had a manual transmission, resulting in the killer and his accomplice taking off on foot......
Ken.
I also agree with lobuxracer. I don't believe manuals will command a premium in the future. As has been noted, hardly anyone builds manuals anymore. Of those that do, paddle shifted cars are sold in far greater volumes than our beloved manuals. I've already posted an article about the dearth of manuals in 2017. Just think what it will be like in 2027 if Lance's prediction is correct, and I fear that it will be. Because the IS-F never came with a manual (like the Buick GN), I don't believe its future value will suffer because of that fact and the fact that manual cars are already a dying breed.
Quick aside. Some of you, maybe most, probably saw the news report where a carjacker killed the driver of a car in front of his wife and child because the car had a manual transmission, resulting in the killer and his accomplice taking off on foot......
Ken.
03-18-17, 01:48 AM
#45
I see everyone mentioning that because it doesn't have a manual transmission it will hurt the appreciating factor.... But wasn't this the first sports car with an 8 speed transmission?? Wouldn't that help garner the respect and desirability in say 20 years? I think this car will definitely appreciate over time, but I'm a lil bias as I think most of us are.
Last edited by kolyan; 03-18-17 at 01:56 AM.