car max sold me a car that was in two accidents
12-15-16, 07:29 AM
#16
I like CarMax business model. Going to a traditional dealership is an absolute nightmare. IF I even consider buying from a dealer, I email them my contingent offer in advance after checking the car out after hours on my own time and then pending a third party PPI and test drive. F that "negotiation" or whatever they call the all day time waster noise.
By the way, my M3 was a no accidents car that had been rear ended which stuffed the front end. Found both after I bought the car and started taking things apart. It's more common than people think to avoid insurance all together and pay out of pocket too which avoids any type of claims notification.
By the way, my M3 was a no accidents car that had been rear ended which stuffed the front end. Found both after I bought the car and started taking things apart. It's more common than people think to avoid insurance all together and pay out of pocket too which avoids any type of claims notification.
12-15-16, 08:30 AM
#17
I know this incident of mine doesn't mean my theory is fact, I'm asking you out of all seriousness. I've always been curious how it works.
12-15-16, 08:45 AM
#18
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
How sure are you about this? When I hit a rock and needed my rim refinished, I specifically asked my agent (State Farm) if they had any dealings with Carfax before I filed. The answer was a resounding no. My body shop (which is super famous around the county) doesn't file anything with them either. This led me to believe it was "police report" based.
I know this incident of mine doesn't mean my theory is fact, I'm asking you out of all seriousness. I've always been curious how it works.
I know this incident of mine doesn't mean my theory is fact, I'm asking you out of all seriousness. I've always been curious how it works.
i ran my vin from my infiniti g35 before .. i got hit in it... no police report... carfax still shows up clean to this day
12-15-16, 08:55 AM
#19
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
but after talking to a few shops apparently carmax refinishes all front bumpers so it didn't bother me. they doll the work out to local shops in the area.
The shop who did the paintwork on the rear didn't use **** paint which is awesome ..using my thickness gauge ..the painted rear bumper is thicker as far as mills go .. but not like im used to seeing with refinish jobs.
my guess is whoever painted 1.knew what they were doing, and 2. used a pretty expensive high solid clear so they wouldn't need to a lot of paint. 3.there's almost 0 orange peel on the rear bumper.. one of the best repair jobs i've seen in awhile.
when i bought the car i couldn't tell the back had been repainted ...but the front was obvious
carmax in this case is not liable, and that's because they didn't buy the car knowing it was hit 2x.
had they known and still sold it to me ... we'd be in litigation, seeing as they would have misrepresented the car.
but they bought from the previous owner with the knowledge of it never being in an accident... i can't fault them too much at all here after getting all the information.
but it still sucks...
12-15-16, 09:26 AM
#20
"Specializes in rolling back miles". That's like saying he specializes in selling cocaine. Probably one of the more ridiculous things I've heard. Rolling miles back immediately flags when a new title is issued, so regardless if the miles were rolled back on the lot, as soon as the car is sold the miles are recorded and the title would be flagged NAM (not actual miles) on carfax and autocheck. Carmax is upfront about selling cars that have been in accidents but will not sell cars with frame or flood damage, or branded titles, among other things. Carmax partners with most of the major banks, and their 'finance manager' is an entire group called CAF. They are the liaison between the salesman and the bank. Rates are not negotiable, they are based on your down payment and credit worthiness. They aren't a traditional dealership that makes the customer jump through hoops and play the negotiation game while the salesperson goes back and forth to their 'manager' to close a deal.
Last edited by SoulFreak; 12-16-16 at 05:50 AM.
12-15-16, 12:35 PM
#21
A lot of modern vehicles will set a code for mileage manipulation that is not deletable by a diagnostic tool, it can only be erased by an ECM reset which is software provided by the manufacturer. Volvo has had it since back in 2001 when they fully switched to CAN bus.
12-15-16, 07:15 PM
#23
I worked at a shop once where we worked on higher end vehicles mostly. They had a "special guy" that would come in that could install a switch that was VERY hidden, that would stop miles from accumulating. He did this mainly on BMWs and Benz's. I personally witnessed these installs. Would take the guy around an hr to do a car and $1000 was his charge. Customers would just flip the switch when taking long road trips so the car doesn't accumulate mileage. Sad, but true. Shady *****
V.
V.
12-16-16, 07:07 AM
#24
Thats a pretty serious allegation to make... especially against one of the largest publicly held auto dealers in the country. Better make sure you have some valid proof of this because this is a major problem that could end you, your friend, and his "guy" up in court defending a slander and misrepresentation lawsuit, your dealing with allegations that could cost Car Max billions in stock valuations, not to mention send major ripples through all the other companies that rely on Car Max business to sustain their business. Not to mention the several manufactures and banks he has committed fraud against with his "leases".... very slippery slope bro, especially on a website anyone can see and read... You never know who's reading your comments.
You really think a major company like Car Max would risk this sort of thing with that much on the line? To make an extra 2,3,4,500-1000.00 on a few cars, how much difference in retail value could it possibly make to roll a odometer 10-20000 miles, if you think their rolling back miles from 200,000 to 75,000, your def wrong, they whole sale those units at their own auctions anyway?
Their profit margins are so low on cars anyway i don't see them willing to risk that. They make hardly anything on a car, regardless what they pay for it. Thats their model, they make most of their money on the back end, and their own wholesale auctions they hold anyway.... much more then on the retail of the cars on their lots...
Not saying rolling back miles isn't possible, and doesnt happen anymore, I would imagine its not hard, but to say Car Max does this on a lot of their cars is a very serious allegation. Most roll backs happen at a wholesale level, or personal level like your buddy, not at a major auto dealer level. If they buy a car that has been rolled back then i can promise you they go after the seller of that car.
You really think a major company like Car Max would risk this sort of thing with that much on the line? To make an extra 2,3,4,500-1000.00 on a few cars, how much difference in retail value could it possibly make to roll a odometer 10-20000 miles, if you think their rolling back miles from 200,000 to 75,000, your def wrong, they whole sale those units at their own auctions anyway?
Their profit margins are so low on cars anyway i don't see them willing to risk that. They make hardly anything on a car, regardless what they pay for it. Thats their model, they make most of their money on the back end, and their own wholesale auctions they hold anyway.... much more then on the retail of the cars on their lots...
Not saying rolling back miles isn't possible, and doesnt happen anymore, I would imagine its not hard, but to say Car Max does this on a lot of their cars is a very serious allegation. Most roll backs happen at a wholesale level, or personal level like your buddy, not at a major auto dealer level. If they buy a car that has been rolled back then i can promise you they go after the seller of that car.
12-17-16, 09:44 PM
#25
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Bought both our cars from CarMax - Sorrento and our F. CarMax isn't to blame for the bad Carfax info. They ran our F and it came up clean; but when changing the oil I noticed the front cover has been resprayed (found overspray). Either a fender bender or the original owner didn't like chips and scratches. I will easily go back top CarMax when we need another vehicle. Very courteous and responsive. At least the North Austin location.
Enjoy the F and move on with life. We certainly are! What a beautiful machine!!
Enjoy the F and move on with life. We certainly are! What a beautiful machine!!
12-17-16, 10:16 PM
#26
There are a lot of comments here that are so far off its sad. Insurance companies automatically list Vins anytime you call their claims department. It's actually required. When I run mvrs for my clients I can tell if the windshield was replaced, if it was towed, anything... and that information doesn't come for a separate database for insurance companies that information comes directly from dmv by law. Carfax will only show reported items. If it wasn't reported to insurance for an accident dmv wouldn't know and it won't post to the Vin when carfax is ran. Like if the previous owner had and accident never called and fixed it themselves.
I find it hard to believe that all of those reports were truly ran and came back claim free and then all of sudden some random report shows it. I dunno... I guess with that being the way you found it how could you possibly blame Carmax if apparently by the post they also didn't know or have it show on a report. I've been in the insurance industry going on 17 years... a lot of this thread is way off and unfortunately some guys will read it and not know any better. Sorry about your car op.
I find it hard to believe that all of those reports were truly ran and came back claim free and then all of sudden some random report shows it. I dunno... I guess with that being the way you found it how could you possibly blame Carmax if apparently by the post they also didn't know or have it show on a report. I've been in the insurance industry going on 17 years... a lot of this thread is way off and unfortunately some guys will read it and not know any better. Sorry about your car op.
Last edited by MikeFoxx; 12-17-16 at 10:27 PM.
12-17-16, 10:31 PM
#27
If i can chime in.
Carmax's biggest strength is the add-on warranty. Carmax lets you buy cars that were originally $65k-$100+k new, and slap a $3,000 warranty onto it, and go.
Things like E63 amg, S class, Porsche - can be had after the initial depreciation hit, but still get a solid warranty.
Is Carmax useful for a used Lexus - not at all. Much better off with a private seller and some due diligence.
Also, IIRC you can have a few days to change your mind with Carmax.
Also the add-on warranty is pro-rated, so if you trade to something else at Carmax you get a refund on the unused part of the warranty.
Like I said - makes tons of sense for semi-exotic euro stuff past 40k miles.
Carmax's biggest strength is the add-on warranty. Carmax lets you buy cars that were originally $65k-$100+k new, and slap a $3,000 warranty onto it, and go.
Things like E63 amg, S class, Porsche - can be had after the initial depreciation hit, but still get a solid warranty.
Is Carmax useful for a used Lexus - not at all. Much better off with a private seller and some due diligence.
Also, IIRC you can have a few days to change your mind with Carmax.
Also the add-on warranty is pro-rated, so if you trade to something else at Carmax you get a refund on the unused part of the warranty.
Like I said - makes tons of sense for semi-exotic euro stuff past 40k miles.
12-18-16, 01:14 AM
#28
I currently work at a CarMax, now I'm not just saying this because I work at one but the truth is, if honesty and transparency is what you look for in a dealership..CarMax is the ONLY place to go. To the OP, CarMax definitely didn't try to "pull a fast one" on you. Probably a minor fender bender that wasn't reported to Autocheck, which CarMax uses and the car passed inspection with no signs of structural damage or flood damage. All CarMax vehicles on the lot MUST pass a full 125 point inspection to become a CarMax Certified car and be eligible for the MaxCare extended warranty. Keep in mind, CarMax sometimes do sell cars that have been in previous accidents, albeit minor ones that did not cause any compromise to the structural integrity of the vehicle. Before we're even allowed to create an order for the car, we must first go through the history report with our customers and let them know exactly what is reported to Autocheck and have the customer make their own inform decisions. After that we have to report any open recalls on the vehicle to our customer and let them know if there are any disclosures with the vehicle like how it was previously used.
Basically during sales consultant training which lasts over a month before you're allowed to go "live" and work with customers on your own, they constantly drill it into your brain to be honest and upfront with your customers...over and over again.. Their whole sales model is based upon honesty, transparency and integrity. There is a reason we don't have finance managers, the sales consultants are the finance managers, we run your credit and when we get the decisions back from the bank directly, we go over it with our customers in real time, up front on the computer so the customer sees what we see from the bank. No finance manager in the back that can mess with your rates ect.
They have systems in place to make sure everything they do is legit and nothing shady can happen. I swear if I were able to bend the rules just a tiny bit sometimes, I'd have a lot more sales go through but CarMax would never allow it. A traditional dealership would do it without a batting an eye. A couple of my co-workers were retired GM's from traditional dealerships like Lexus, Toyota, Honda ect...the stories they tell me gave me chills about how crooked behind the scene those dealerships really are. In fact, I've heard CarMax prefer not to hire sales people that came from traditional dealerships because they're considered "tainted goods". Also the interview process was one of the most extensive I've been through, it's a few day process that starts with psychological testing that takes a couple hours, then if you pass you get a phone interview, then if you pass you come in person with many panel interviews, more tests, role playing with different managers, extensive drug testing and background checks ect. felt like I was getting a job at NASA or something, I was informed that for every 12 applicants they interview, only 1 makes it through.
CarMax is EXTREMELY overprotective of their image and reputation that they've built for themselves, it's that reason CarMax is the number 1 largest used car retailer in the nation, people trust them. To the guy who said CarMax has guys "roll back" their miles in their cars is the most ridiculous accusation I've ever heard. The way they have their system and buying process setup, I don't even see how that would be possible. Also I'm trying to wrap my brain around why they would even do it in the first place if they could? Why would a couple guys at that location roll back the miles to try and make a few bucks for the company when they benefit nothing from it? It's not like corporate goes, "Oh hey cool guys.. you illegally rolled back the mileage of these cars and made us a few extra bucks, here's a nice bonus for you! We'll have the CEO fly out and cook you some burgers!" And if they did somehow try to roll back the mileage, they would have to get Business Office involved to somehow try and fraudulently change the DMV and auction paper trail, and again why would those guys even get involve when again there is nothing to gain for them even if it was somehow possible? The cars are not exclusive to that location either, they are constantly being transferred to one of over 160 other CarMax locations whenever the customers request it so again...I can't comprehend why they would do it in the first place?
I can see it happening at one of your corner ghetto used car lots where the owners would directly gain from cheating customers but a multibillion dollar corporation like CarMax? That's some crazy accusations right there....
Basically during sales consultant training which lasts over a month before you're allowed to go "live" and work with customers on your own, they constantly drill it into your brain to be honest and upfront with your customers...over and over again.. Their whole sales model is based upon honesty, transparency and integrity. There is a reason we don't have finance managers, the sales consultants are the finance managers, we run your credit and when we get the decisions back from the bank directly, we go over it with our customers in real time, up front on the computer so the customer sees what we see from the bank. No finance manager in the back that can mess with your rates ect.
They have systems in place to make sure everything they do is legit and nothing shady can happen. I swear if I were able to bend the rules just a tiny bit sometimes, I'd have a lot more sales go through but CarMax would never allow it. A traditional dealership would do it without a batting an eye. A couple of my co-workers were retired GM's from traditional dealerships like Lexus, Toyota, Honda ect...the stories they tell me gave me chills about how crooked behind the scene those dealerships really are. In fact, I've heard CarMax prefer not to hire sales people that came from traditional dealerships because they're considered "tainted goods". Also the interview process was one of the most extensive I've been through, it's a few day process that starts with psychological testing that takes a couple hours, then if you pass you get a phone interview, then if you pass you come in person with many panel interviews, more tests, role playing with different managers, extensive drug testing and background checks ect. felt like I was getting a job at NASA or something, I was informed that for every 12 applicants they interview, only 1 makes it through.
CarMax is EXTREMELY overprotective of their image and reputation that they've built for themselves, it's that reason CarMax is the number 1 largest used car retailer in the nation, people trust them. To the guy who said CarMax has guys "roll back" their miles in their cars is the most ridiculous accusation I've ever heard. The way they have their system and buying process setup, I don't even see how that would be possible. Also I'm trying to wrap my brain around why they would even do it in the first place if they could? Why would a couple guys at that location roll back the miles to try and make a few bucks for the company when they benefit nothing from it? It's not like corporate goes, "Oh hey cool guys.. you illegally rolled back the mileage of these cars and made us a few extra bucks, here's a nice bonus for you! We'll have the CEO fly out and cook you some burgers!" And if they did somehow try to roll back the mileage, they would have to get Business Office involved to somehow try and fraudulently change the DMV and auction paper trail, and again why would those guys even get involve when again there is nothing to gain for them even if it was somehow possible? The cars are not exclusive to that location either, they are constantly being transferred to one of over 160 other CarMax locations whenever the customers request it so again...I can't comprehend why they would do it in the first place?
I can see it happening at one of your corner ghetto used car lots where the owners would directly gain from cheating customers but a multibillion dollar corporation like CarMax? That's some crazy accusations right there....
Last edited by RSXiMUS; 12-18-16 at 01:55 AM.
12-18-16, 03:35 AM
#29
I currently work at a CarMax, now I'm not just saying this because I work at one but the truth is, if honesty and transparency is what you look for in a dealership..CarMax is the ONLY place to go. To the OP, CarMax definitely didn't try to "pull a fast one" on you. Probably a minor fender bender that wasn't reported to Autocheck, which CarMax uses and the car passed inspection with no signs of structural damage or flood damage. All CarMax vehicles on the lot MUST pass a full 125 point inspection to become a CarMax Certified car and be eligible for the MaxCare extended warranty. Keep in mind, CarMax sometimes do sell cars that have been in previous accidents, albeit minor ones that did not cause any compromise to the structural integrity of the vehicle. Before we're even allowed to create an order for the car, we must first go through the history report with our customers and let them know exactly what is reported to Autocheck and have the customer make their own inform decisions. After that we have to report any open recalls on the vehicle to our customer and let them know if there are any disclosures with the vehicle like how it was previously used.
Basically during sales consultant training which lasts over a month before you're allowed to go "live" and work with customers on your own, they constantly drill it into your brain to be honest and upfront with your customers...over and over again.. Their whole sales model is based upon honesty, transparency and integrity. There is a reason we don't have finance managers, the sales consultants are the finance managers, we run your credit and when we get the decisions back from the bank directly, we go over it with our customers in real time, up front on the computer so the customer sees what we see from the bank. No finance manager in the back that can mess with your rates ect.
They have systems in place to make sure everything they do is legit and nothing shady can happen. I swear if I were able to bend the rules just a tiny bit sometimes, I'd have a lot more sales go through but CarMax would never allow it. A traditional dealership would do it without a batting an eye. A couple of my co-workers were retired GM's from traditional dealerships like Lexus, Toyota, Honda ect...the stories they tell me gave me chills about how crooked behind the scene those dealerships really are. In fact, I've heard CarMax prefer not to hire sales people that came from traditional dealerships because they're considered "tainted goods". Also the interview process was one of the most extensive I've been through, it's a few day process that starts with psychological testing that takes a couple hours, then if you pass you get a phone interview, then if you pass you come in person with many panel interviews, more tests, role playing with different managers, extensive drug testing and background checks ect. felt like I was getting a job at NASA or something, I was informed that for every 12 applicants they interview, only 1 makes it through.
CarMax is EXTREMELY overprotective of their image and reputation that they've built for themselves, it's that reason CarMax is the number 1 largest used car retailer in the nation, people trust them. To the guy who said CarMax has guys "roll back" their miles in their cars is the most ridiculous accusation I've ever heard. The way they have their system and buying process setup, I don't even see how that would be possible. Also I'm trying to wrap my brain around why they would even do it in the first place if they could? Why would a couple guys at that location roll back the miles to try and make a few bucks for the company when they benefit nothing from it? It's not like corporate goes, "Oh hey cool guys.. you illegally rolled back the mileage of these cars and made us a few extra bucks, here's a nice bonus for you! We'll have the CEO fly out and cook you some burgers!" And if they did somehow try to roll back the mileage, they would have to get Business Office involved to somehow try and fraudulently change the DMV and auction paper trail, and again why would those guys even get involve when again there is nothing to gain for them even if it was somehow possible? The cars are not exclusive to that location either, they are constantly being transferred to one of over 160 other CarMax locations whenever the customers request it so again...I can't comprehend why they would do it in the first place?
I can see it happening at one of your corner ghetto used car lots where the owners would directly gain from cheating customers but a multibillion dollar corporation like CarMax? That's some crazy accusations right there....
Basically during sales consultant training which lasts over a month before you're allowed to go "live" and work with customers on your own, they constantly drill it into your brain to be honest and upfront with your customers...over and over again.. Their whole sales model is based upon honesty, transparency and integrity. There is a reason we don't have finance managers, the sales consultants are the finance managers, we run your credit and when we get the decisions back from the bank directly, we go over it with our customers in real time, up front on the computer so the customer sees what we see from the bank. No finance manager in the back that can mess with your rates ect.
They have systems in place to make sure everything they do is legit and nothing shady can happen. I swear if I were able to bend the rules just a tiny bit sometimes, I'd have a lot more sales go through but CarMax would never allow it. A traditional dealership would do it without a batting an eye. A couple of my co-workers were retired GM's from traditional dealerships like Lexus, Toyota, Honda ect...the stories they tell me gave me chills about how crooked behind the scene those dealerships really are. In fact, I've heard CarMax prefer not to hire sales people that came from traditional dealerships because they're considered "tainted goods". Also the interview process was one of the most extensive I've been through, it's a few day process that starts with psychological testing that takes a couple hours, then if you pass you get a phone interview, then if you pass you come in person with many panel interviews, more tests, role playing with different managers, extensive drug testing and background checks ect. felt like I was getting a job at NASA or something, I was informed that for every 12 applicants they interview, only 1 makes it through.
CarMax is EXTREMELY overprotective of their image and reputation that they've built for themselves, it's that reason CarMax is the number 1 largest used car retailer in the nation, people trust them. To the guy who said CarMax has guys "roll back" their miles in their cars is the most ridiculous accusation I've ever heard. The way they have their system and buying process setup, I don't even see how that would be possible. Also I'm trying to wrap my brain around why they would even do it in the first place if they could? Why would a couple guys at that location roll back the miles to try and make a few bucks for the company when they benefit nothing from it? It's not like corporate goes, "Oh hey cool guys.. you illegally rolled back the mileage of these cars and made us a few extra bucks, here's a nice bonus for you! We'll have the CEO fly out and cook you some burgers!" And if they did somehow try to roll back the mileage, they would have to get Business Office involved to somehow try and fraudulently change the DMV and auction paper trail, and again why would those guys even get involve when again there is nothing to gain for them even if it was somehow possible? The cars are not exclusive to that location either, they are constantly being transferred to one of over 160 other CarMax locations whenever the customers request it so again...I can't comprehend why they would do it in the first place?
I can see it happening at one of your corner ghetto used car lots where the owners would directly gain from cheating customers but a multibillion dollar corporation like CarMax? That's some crazy accusations right there....
V.
12-18-16, 03:44 AM
#30
I had an accident in my last car and took it to my friends shop to get the repair work done and for whatever reason the work was never reported to car fax etc. even though it went through insurance etc. Thus, there are clearly ways that cars can have been in accidents and the accident never put into the databases.