I drove a 2015 M3 yesterday.......
05-07-15, 07:34 AM
#31
^^^
You're right, the second/third owner is the one who needs to worry. If you're under warranty, your maintenance is also included, even brakes, tires would be the only expense.
The sound of the turbo M3/M4/M5 is not as nice as the old M cars, not even close to the sound of an I/E/H ISF.
You're right, the second/third owner is the one who needs to worry. If you're under warranty, your maintenance is also included, even brakes, tires would be the only expense.
The sound of the turbo M3/M4/M5 is not as nice as the old M cars, not even close to the sound of an I/E/H ISF.
05-07-15, 04:26 PM
#32
Lead Lap
Not true that an M car is uncontrollable, in my experience the throttle is much easier to modulate than in the ISF. For example, if the throttle play in the ISF is 4", probably the first 2.5" cover 90% of the throttle response (that's why I always found the LTC units useless). In an M car, all 4" are usable in a linear rate, so basically you'd feel the M car sluggish if you drive it like you drive an ISF. Now, hit the gas hard and those turbos will teach you a lesson.
But the reality its just the way and dynamics of the systems and the way the power comes on the the M4 that its was much easier to spin the tires, its not near as linear at times as the RCF or the ISF, ofcoarse once boost builds, like the Porsche Turbo I had for a few months or other forced induction vehicle. Each car has its own dynamic and as we learn them or what not we learn how to modulate the throttle, select gear for particular instance, etc to get the most out of the car to do what we want.
The reality is if the M4 was reliable I would love one too. Its a different experience which makes the car hobby fun. Me personally dont like the bland interior, but as we all know if it was as reliable as the lexus many of us would own BOTH...whether we want to admit or not..
Last edited by StealthFF; 05-08-15 at 03:44 AM.
05-08-15, 11:28 AM
#34
Here's what gets me about the brands: no one can seem to find the perfect middle or best of both worlds.
BMW - brings their product to market quickly. Looks fantastic. Drives incredibly. Outperforms Lexus. Has incredible aftermarket support. 6 months to a year down the road, the damn thing is breaking down. Ridiculous maintenance costs. Spend more time in loaners than actual car.
Lexus - takes too long to bring product to market. Looks always get mixed reviews, but typically worse than BMW. Drives very well, but feels restricted. Very limited aftermarket support. Not as fun. Can't quite keep up with Beamer. 8 years down the road, car still runs like the day it was made.
BMW - brings their product to market quickly. Looks fantastic. Drives incredibly. Outperforms Lexus. Has incredible aftermarket support. 6 months to a year down the road, the damn thing is breaking down. Ridiculous maintenance costs. Spend more time in loaners than actual car.
Lexus - takes too long to bring product to market. Looks always get mixed reviews, but typically worse than BMW. Drives very well, but feels restricted. Very limited aftermarket support. Not as fun. Can't quite keep up with Beamer. 8 years down the road, car still runs like the day it was made.
05-08-15, 02:19 PM
#35
I am not sure comparing an IS-F to an f80/f82 is a fair comparison. Of course the new M car is going to dominate in the performance categories.
Compared to an e9x M3 makes more sense. I was cross shopping both the e90 M3 and IS-F, but ended up with the F because I like the power delivery better than the M3 v8 for the street (torque makes a huge difference, especially at mile high altitude). Plus, I like the interior better. The M3 is no doubt a better driver car, although the F comes close in sport mode. That's just my impression.
I have also been bit by BMW reliability issues on all my 3 series cars. Oddly enough my e36 BMW (which I still own, 200k+ miles) has given me the least problems...my e90 335i was awful (thankfully under warranty) and my e46 ZHP sedan had the weirdest problems I've ever had on a car, ever (costing me thousands out of pocket to ultimately fix). One big reason I went Lexus this go around was the peace of mind of the reliability.
That said, my next car will probably be an f80 M3
... under full warranty of course.
Compared to an e9x M3 makes more sense. I was cross shopping both the e90 M3 and IS-F, but ended up with the F because I like the power delivery better than the M3 v8 for the street (torque makes a huge difference, especially at mile high altitude). Plus, I like the interior better. The M3 is no doubt a better driver car, although the F comes close in sport mode. That's just my impression.
I have also been bit by BMW reliability issues on all my 3 series cars. Oddly enough my e36 BMW (which I still own, 200k+ miles) has given me the least problems...my e90 335i was awful (thankfully under warranty) and my e46 ZHP sedan had the weirdest problems I've ever had on a car, ever (costing me thousands out of pocket to ultimately fix). One big reason I went Lexus this go around was the peace of mind of the reliability.
That said, my next car will probably be an f80 M3
... under full warranty of course.
05-08-15, 04:16 PM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
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I don't have an exact figure, but from what I've seen, most BMWs, M included, are leased. So those folks aren't worried about reliability because they are going to be hands off once the bumper-to-bumper is over. I mean, yes it's a hassle to have your car at the shop, otherwise that's the way to go if you want to go German.
For others (Like myself), this may not be their primary car, and lower miles = less reliability concerns in general.
For others (Like myself), this may not be their primary car, and lower miles = less reliability concerns in general.
05-10-15, 06:01 AM
#38
Lead Lap
I don't have an exact figure, but from what I've seen, most BMWs, M included, are leased. So those folks aren't worried about reliability because they are going to be hands off once the bumper-to-bumper is over. I mean, yes it's a hassle to have your car at the shop, otherwise that's the way to go if you want to go German.
For others (Like myself), this may not be their primary car, and lower miles = less reliability concerns in general.
For others (Like myself), this may not be their primary car, and lower miles = less reliability concerns in general.
05-10-15, 08:17 PM
#39
^^ This is what I mean.....why cant these idiots at BMW get it together...........or Lexus for that matter. What we want are great sports cars that dont break. BMW can make them fun but they break. Lexus can make them less fun but they never break. Why cant these idiots meet in the middle?? Why does there always have to be a compromise?? Lexus needs to bring it or BMW needs to whip their engineers a little harder. Take them off the test track and put them in a lab monitoring durability
-R
05-11-15, 04:00 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
but Im not holding my breath . All it takes in a couple of ****ty BMW electrical components to ruin it all
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