I8ABMR'S Wild Horse Pass Track Day Videos AND F-Sport rear sway bar track review
06-02-14, 12:07 AM
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I8ABMR'S Wild Horse Pass Track Day Videos AND F-Sport rear sway bar track review
Hey guys !! Got the F out
to Wild Horse Pass Motor sports park for 3 sessions. This time I was moved up to HPDE 2. The session had a 6 am start and a 5:30 am drivers meeting because of the crazy heat. In fact the last session was run at ambient temps of about 100 degrees.
The car did really well as usual . I ran with heavily modified mustangs and Camaro SS with 295 on all 4 corners, a turbo integra, and a couple of Honda S2000s . AMAZINGLY the F was able to hang with them and ,in fact, had the best brakes on the track. In fact I had three different drivers approach me after the session to tell me they could not believe how deep into the braking zones I could go. I also had two friends tell me that the car was insanely flat in the corners, BUT that they could tell I was fighting the tires on the last two sessions. Easy for viewers to tell that the tires are the weak link . I could not agree more.
Had an amazing time, had a lot of fun, hung out with some very cool real car guys, and got to get the F out on the track. I know most of us have never had their Fs on the track. I would strongly recommend an HPDE session for all . It will get you addicted and you will see in the end we have no real idea what our cars limits really are and most will never have an opportunity to safely drive their ISFs as hard for as long . Its really neat to get a feel for the car at the limits and then to see how the dynamics and limits change with each session. I felt like a real racer. Felt like I had to preserve the tires and not push the car as hard as we went into the hotter laps of the day. ( had to remember " slow in fast out " line from the driving books and class in HPDE1)
Since grip was fading and I was avoiding over steer I tried not to roll over the rumble strips. I used the edge as the apex. I am aware my lines were not perfect but I was just trying to get some seat time and learn what the car can do.
Lexus F Sport Rear Sway Bar Track Performance Review:
I am writing this review to give others with the bar, or other who are thinking of adding the bar to their mods list, an idea of how the bar changes the dynamics on the track as opposed to just the street. I ran three sessions with the new F sport rear sway bar. It seemed like a great mod so I decided to add the part. I recently had new oem pads put on with the bar and fresh oil. Those were the only changes made to the car from the last session 8 weeks ago.
Now many of us have complained about the mild under steer that is built into the ISF. When I fisrt purchased the car I was a little upset that I could feel a car this sporty push as I entered fast freeway onramps or even on hard turns on the streets. The rear bar for many of us has reduced or eliminated the under steer totally and in my opinion makes the car feel more planted. On the track, my main concern was inducing corner exit over steer. Most who will drive the ISF will agree that you can get better track times with the TCS on. I would have to agree. So in my videos the TCS ( as you can hear ) will pop in from time to time. Considering I knew I was adding oversteer and that my tires are not so new anymore, I would be dealing with crazy temps ( as well as my friend Thomas who is a test driver for Lexus tell me you can get better times with TCS) AND I am running these teeny tiny 255s, I left it on.
The first session of the day was run at 7 a.m with ambient temps at 80 degrees. On fresh tires ( not melted like they looked after third session) the rear bar made the car totally stop the plowing /understeer . Even on the technical parts of the track there was NO under steer at all ( except for once when I entered the tightest turn on the track WAY too hot). So the results were great. In the earlier cooler session I was still able to power out of the corner exit sooner and with much less TCS intrusion. This allowed the car to come out of the turns faster and earlier. In the earlier sessions I could easily hold with the modified Camaros and Mustangs with 295 width Nitto NT01track tires ( compared to my anemic 225s and 255s oem Bridgestones that were used). In fact my brakes were way better and they actively commented on that. Still says a lot about the tiny tires AND is a testament to Lexus' suspension work.
As the day warmed up and track temps and ambient temps climbed the car then started to over steer more. This therefore created more rear end rotation as I would exit the turns and TCS intrusion. Proper driving technique would say that you want to brake deep into the braking zone, then ease off the brake and roll into the corner entry on the edge of grip. Then as you reach mid corner you want to roll the power on smoothly and power out of the turn. With the new bar I felt that the oversteer reared it head a bit more in session 2 and 3 . This would cause the TCS to kick in and slow me down as I would enter the back straight. As opposed to rolling the power on midcorner I had to wait until the car was further and pretty much at corner exit. On the back straight with the Camaro this led to allowing the lead car a little extra time to pull on me and get more speed on the straights. In the earlier sessions I was followed by a built mustang, Camaro, and GTO and I could pull on them as I entered the straights . As the temps went up that ability was lost. I then relied more on my deeper braking and strong pull on the straights to run with the V8 crew. In session 3 I played with a Camaro SS ( it was built and had 295s on all 4 corners). When we started the session I agreed to let him lead so I could chase. I feel like I learn more chasing then leading plus I feel like I push a little too hard when leading. It was in hottest session of the day. I let him lead so I could chase and the cars were pretty even. He had better corner exit speed because of the added grip but the ISF could out break him with ease. In fact he backed off and let me pass because I was riding him and his brakes were going. Sadly I had to let him pass and baby the car because the oil temps were hitting max and I kew the car was going to warn me. I had to back off for a bit then get back on it as the bars went back down. Now I see why people don't run the cars in this kind of heat. My lap times were better this time but I also knew to brake much deeper int he turns in all honesty
All in all I think that the rear bar is a great mod for the the ISF. On the street the car feels dialed in and more stable at extremely high speed. So for those who don't want to take it to the track , this mod should essentially be a no brainer. On the track it will eliminate under steer and add a bit of over steer. In the end I think adding the wider Michelin PSS or Bridgestones in addition to the bar would be the best overall combo to provide more corner exit speed but with more consistency ( I love the Michelins but I think the idea of the 285s would only help dial out more of the oversteer and allow you to get on it earlier). You will dial out some of the induced over steer therefore the car will be able to power out of the turns earlier and with less intrusion from TCS. Better track performance with less corner exit over steer plus more fun on the street. I will report back again in October for the next track day session. By them I will have new tires , temps will be much lower, and I will be attending the event at a different track that is supposed to be much nicer and more of a "real track" ( thats how the other drivers described it )
The F Sport Sway Bar get 2 from me and with the wider rear tires it will truly be dialed in.
TRACK DAY FOOTAGE :
note: in HPDE you are not allowed to pass on the first lap. Just in case anyone is wondering why the first laps are so mellow.
PS sorry about the music playing in the videos, any giggling, or cursing LOL. In one of the seesions the XM radio was on. I was listening to it as we waited to head out and got distracted turning on my GoPro and didnt turn it off. The music in video were Cake "going the distance " is playing,I did that on purpose because that song always made feel like going to the track.
to Wild Horse Pass Motor sports park for 3 sessions. This time I was moved up to HPDE 2. The session had a 6 am start and a 5:30 am drivers meeting because of the crazy heat. In fact the last session was run at ambient temps of about 100 degrees. The car did really well as usual . I ran with heavily modified mustangs and Camaro SS with 295 on all 4 corners, a turbo integra, and a couple of Honda S2000s . AMAZINGLY the F was able to hang with them and ,in fact, had the best brakes on the track. In fact I had three different drivers approach me after the session to tell me they could not believe how deep into the braking zones I could go. I also had two friends tell me that the car was insanely flat in the corners, BUT that they could tell I was fighting the tires on the last two sessions. Easy for viewers to tell that the tires are the weak link . I could not agree more.
Had an amazing time, had a lot of fun, hung out with some very cool real car guys, and got to get the F out on the track. I know most of us have never had their Fs on the track. I would strongly recommend an HPDE session for all . It will get you addicted and you will see in the end we have no real idea what our cars limits really are and most will never have an opportunity to safely drive their ISFs as hard for as long . Its really neat to get a feel for the car at the limits and then to see how the dynamics and limits change with each session. I felt like a real racer
. Felt like I had to preserve the tires and not push the car as hard as we went into the hotter laps of the day. ( had to remember " slow in fast out " line from the driving books and class in HPDE1)Since grip was fading and I was avoiding over steer I tried not to roll over the rumble strips. I used the edge as the apex. I am aware my lines were not perfect but I was just trying to get some seat time and learn what the car can do.
Lexus F Sport Rear Sway Bar Track Performance Review:
I am writing this review to give others with the bar, or other who are thinking of adding the bar to their mods list, an idea of how the bar changes the dynamics on the track as opposed to just the street. I ran three sessions with the new F sport rear sway bar. It seemed like a great mod so I decided to add the part. I recently had new oem pads put on with the bar and fresh oil. Those were the only changes made to the car from the last session 8 weeks ago.
Now many of us have complained about the mild under steer that is built into the ISF. When I fisrt purchased the car I was a little upset that I could feel a car this sporty push as I entered fast freeway onramps or even on hard turns on the streets. The rear bar for many of us has reduced or eliminated the under steer totally and in my opinion makes the car feel more planted. On the track, my main concern was inducing corner exit over steer. Most who will drive the ISF will agree that you can get better track times with the TCS on. I would have to agree. So in my videos the TCS ( as you can hear ) will pop in from time to time. Considering I knew I was adding oversteer and that my tires are not so new anymore, I would be dealing with crazy temps ( as well as my friend Thomas who is a test driver for Lexus tell me you can get better times with TCS
) AND I am running these teeny tiny 255s, I left it on.The first session of the day was run at 7 a.m with ambient temps at 80 degrees. On fresh tires ( not melted like they looked after third session) the rear bar made the car totally stop the plowing /understeer . Even on the technical parts of the track there was NO under steer at all ( except for once when I entered the tightest turn on the track WAY too hot
). So the results were great. In the earlier cooler session I was still able to power out of the corner exit sooner and with much less TCS intrusion. This allowed the car to come out of the turns faster and earlier. In the earlier sessions I could easily hold with the modified Camaros and Mustangs with 295 width Nitto NT01track tires ( compared to my anemic 225s and 255s oem Bridgestones that were used). In fact my brakes were way better and they actively commented on that. Still says a lot about the tiny tires AND is a testament to Lexus' suspension work. As the day warmed up and track temps and ambient temps climbed the car then started to over steer more. This therefore created more rear end rotation as I would exit the turns and TCS intrusion. Proper driving technique would say that you want to brake deep into the braking zone, then ease off the brake and roll into the corner entry on the edge of grip. Then as you reach mid corner you want to roll the power on smoothly and power out of the turn. With the new bar I felt that the oversteer reared it head a bit more in session 2 and 3 . This would cause the TCS to kick in and slow me down as I would enter the back straight. As opposed to rolling the power on midcorner I had to wait until the car was further and pretty much at corner exit. On the back straight with the Camaro this led to allowing the lead car a little extra time to pull on me and get more speed on the straights. In the earlier sessions I was followed by a built mustang, Camaro, and GTO and I could pull on them as I entered the straights . As the temps went up that ability was lost. I then relied more on my deeper braking and strong pull on the straights to run with the V8 crew. In session 3 I played with a Camaro SS ( it was built and had 295s on all 4 corners). When we started the session I agreed to let him lead so I could chase. I feel like I learn more chasing then leading plus I feel like I push a little too hard when leading. It was in hottest session of the day. I let him lead so I could chase and the cars were pretty even. He had better corner exit speed because of the added grip but the ISF could out break him with ease. In fact he backed off and let me pass because I was riding him and his brakes were going. Sadly I had to let him pass and baby the car because the oil temps were hitting max and I kew the car was going to warn me. I had to back off for a bit then get back on it as the bars went back down. Now I see why people don't run the cars in this kind of heat. My lap times were better this time but I also knew to brake much deeper int he turns in all honesty
All in all I think that the rear bar is a great mod for the the ISF. On the street the car feels dialed in and more stable at extremely high speed. So for those who don't want to take it to the track , this mod should essentially be a no brainer. On the track it will eliminate under steer and add a bit of over steer. In the end I think adding the wider Michelin PSS or Bridgestones in addition to the bar would be the best overall combo to provide more corner exit speed but with more consistency ( I love the Michelins but I think the idea of the 285s would only help dial out more of the oversteer and allow you to get on it earlier). You will dial out some of the induced over steer therefore the car will be able to power out of the turns earlier and with less intrusion from TCS. Better track performance with less corner exit over steer plus more fun on the street. I will report back again in October for the next track day session. By them I will have new tires , temps will be much lower, and I will be attending the event at a different track that is supposed to be much nicer and more of a "real track" ( thats how the other drivers described it )
The F Sport Sway Bar get 2
from me and with the wider rear tires it will truly be dialed in.TRACK DAY FOOTAGE :
note: in HPDE you are not allowed to pass on the first lap. Just in case anyone is wondering why the first laps are so mellow.
PS sorry about the music playing in the videos, any giggling, or cursing LOL. In one of the seesions the XM radio was on. I was listening to it as we waited to head out and got distracted turning on my GoPro and didnt turn it off. The music in video were Cake "going the distance " is playing,I did that on purpose because that song always made feel like going to the track.
Last edited by I8ABMR; 06-02-14 at 12:34 AM.
06-02-14, 01:24 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
100% correct
Changing the front would be a wasteit was fun, BUT no instructor this time at all in any session. They were short on instructors so me and 4 other guys said we'd go alone. It was more fun plus less weight to fight with these little skinny tires
06-02-14, 04:04 PM
#7
Dude way to represent MRM...
I need to track my ISF...but will need a different wheel/tire setup as you are correct that they can make a world of difference...thanks for sharing and now making me want to do this even more...dang you...LOL
I need to track my ISF...but will need a different wheel/tire setup as you are correct that they can make a world of difference...thanks for sharing and now making me want to do this even more...dang you...LOL
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06-02-14, 07:23 PM
#9
Great job! Tracking the F is like a total high for sure. It does very well and the brakes really are phenomenal... I was out braking Porsche Carrera's all day long at AMP. Definitely look into some Michelin PSS's. They definitely will take a better beating at the track and they grip like hell.
06-02-14, 07:31 PM
#10
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
The Bridgestones are pretty good at the track. You won't have a head and shoulders difference with another street tire. Those tires are far from worn out. This is what they look like when you wear them out at the track:
I strongly disagree about leaving the stability controls on. IME they overheat your brakes (and tires) and make the car do difficult things unless you are already very familiar with the car's performance at the limit. I ran in 102 degree heat at CMP and only had problems when VSC was working. With it off, I never had issues. Yes, the tires get greasy 15 minutes into a 20 minute session no matter what, but they're not bad and they stay predictable. Any heavy sedan is going to do that, and the F is a heavy sedan.
The fact you were able to run in those temps with VSC turned on and had no issues with brakes running stock pads means this track is not hard on brakes, so you shouldn't have that much trouble with tires. Sure it's not a 2500 lb car on 245s, but it is manageable. Sounds like a short course without a lot of triple digit speed.
I strongly disagree about leaving the stability controls on. IME they overheat your brakes (and tires) and make the car do difficult things unless you are already very familiar with the car's performance at the limit. I ran in 102 degree heat at CMP and only had problems when VSC was working. With it off, I never had issues. Yes, the tires get greasy 15 minutes into a 20 minute session no matter what, but they're not bad and they stay predictable. Any heavy sedan is going to do that, and the F is a heavy sedan.
The fact you were able to run in those temps with VSC turned on and had no issues with brakes running stock pads means this track is not hard on brakes, so you shouldn't have that much trouble with tires. Sure it's not a 2500 lb car on 245s, but it is manageable. Sounds like a short course without a lot of triple digit speed.
06-02-14, 07:45 PM
#11
Lance, does it make a difference with the '10+ model years w/ a LSD vs previous years that use the E-diff? Doesn't the e-diff use a lot of rear braking to help with that which would cause more issues? I didn't have any issues at AMP running with my stability controls on. The stability controls would kick in occasionally but not that often.
06-02-14, 08:05 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
LOL thanks buddy. Take her out for a session or two. In the end you dont have to go extreme .....but you will want to
In the end I learned that next year I will not run the warmer sessions.
Great job! Tracking the F is like a total high for sure. It does very well and the brakes really are phenomenal... I was out braking Porsche Carrera's all day long at AMP. Definitely look into some Michelin PSS's. They definitely will take a better beating at the track and they grip like hell.
The Bridgestones are pretty good at the track. You won't have a head and shoulders difference with another street tire. Those tires are far from worn out. This is what they look like when you wear them out at the track:
I strongly disagree about leaving the stability controls on. IME they overheat your brakes (and tires) and make the car do difficult things unless you are already very familiar with the car's performance at the limit. I ran in 102 degree heat at CMP and only had problems when VSC was working. With it off, I never had issues. Yes, the tires get greasy 15 minutes into a 20 minute session no matter what, but they're not bad and they stay predictable. Any heavy sedan is going to do that, and the F is a heavy sedan.
The fact you were able to run in those temps with VSC turned on and had no issues with brakes running stock pads means this track is not hard on brakes, so you shouldn't have that much trouble with tires. Sure it's not a 2500 lb car on 245s, but it is manageable. Sounds like a short course without a lot of triple digit speed.
I strongly disagree about leaving the stability controls on. IME they overheat your brakes (and tires) and make the car do difficult things unless you are already very familiar with the car's performance at the limit. I ran in 102 degree heat at CMP and only had problems when VSC was working. With it off, I never had issues. Yes, the tires get greasy 15 minutes into a 20 minute session no matter what, but they're not bad and they stay predictable. Any heavy sedan is going to do that, and the F is a heavy sedan.
The fact you were able to run in those temps with VSC turned on and had no issues with brakes running stock pads means this track is not hard on brakes, so you shouldn't have that much trouble with tires. Sure it's not a 2500 lb car on 245s, but it is manageable. Sounds like a short course without a lot of triple digit speed.
06-02-14, 10:00 PM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I am thinking that a separate track set of wheels would be great. I can get some basic TSW 18's or even 19s and go as wide as possible. My concern is to drop 1k on a set of Michelin PSS only to tear them to pieces at the track. A track set up would be great since I can go with a pure track tire and I can preserve my higher end street tires, but in the end I still think I am really out to have fun and play with the car. No real hardcore racing and Im pretty happy in HPDE2. Another option would be to go with the Mich PSS and just not run any summer sessions
Honestly my tires looked normal compared to what they looked like this time. 
In the end you are right tooth doc. The only way to have your cake and eat it too is to do 2 separate sets of wheels. Hell we have the TPMS for it
Just have to decide. ( dont want to **** the wife off )........fathers day is around the corner .....hhhmmmm
Last edited by I8ABMR; 06-02-14 at 10:08 PM.