Mother of all changing ATF in tranny threads - Level set instructions link in post #1
03-16-16, 07:39 PM
#166
Well guys I havent experienced any abnormal shifting before or after the transmission fluid change. The car has never held a gear like that for me, even out of a turn it has held a gear for a few seconds until i left it then it will shift on its own and if im going fast enough it also upshifts multiple times, but at the very minimum I would get the level checked and topped off.
As far as the tranny unlocking, I would first pinpoint and associate that behavior with the tune since multiple owners are experiencing the same issue.
As far as the tranny unlocking, I would first pinpoint and associate that behavior with the tune since multiple owners are experiencing the same issue.
03-17-16, 08:35 AM
#167
This is a great thread. We should make a new sticky with "common misconceptions." In that thread we should include a 20k mile tranny top-off procedure, diff change perhaps, a recommended double check of oil levels after dealer service, issues with recalls like ELF, etc. All the stuff that's surprising us here at CL. 
03-17-16, 09:24 AM
#168
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
This is a great thread. We should make a new sticky with "common misconceptions." In that thread we should include a 20k mile tranny top-off procedure, diff change perhaps, a recommended double check of oil levels after dealer service, issues with recalls like ELF, etc. All the stuff that's surprising us here at CL.
04-13-16, 05:03 PM
#170
Driver School Candidate
Really? This again?
Do yourselves a BIG favor. Pull a sample, send it to Blackstone, and THEN decide if it needs to be changed when you have real evidence the fluid is at or near end of service life.
The fluid for a full change costs way more than the $20 Blackstone is going to charge for analysis, and if you find out your fluid is only half used, you just saved a ton of PITA.
FWIW, one of the reasons they've gone to "lifetime fill" is the same reason your ball joints no longer have zerks on them to service the grease inside. The warranty engineers found out the techs injecting the grease into the joints also managed to get a small shot of dirt in the joint, so it actually shortened service life. Ball joints an owner can service went away in the late 70s for this exact reason.
So assuming you can drain and refill without getting dirt in the transmission, even with one of those magic fluid swap gizmos is way beyond optimistic. Take a look at Just F Me's thread with the two ATF UOAs in it. Notice the insolubles in his vs. mine? Somehow, dirt got in his gearbox. Mine never had a plug touched on it until I took the sample. If someone at some point "serviced" his gearbox and got dirt in it, voila! We have the big difference between his UOA and mine.
So assuming you can change this 1. without introducing contaminants, 2. with enough of a fluid swap to be effective, 3. while getting the fluid level correct, is a pretty tall order. It's also why I didn't change the fluid in my gearbox after I got my analysis results.
Do yourselves a BIG favor. Pull a sample, send it to Blackstone, and THEN decide if it needs to be changed when you have real evidence the fluid is at or near end of service life.
The fluid for a full change costs way more than the $20 Blackstone is going to charge for analysis, and if you find out your fluid is only half used, you just saved a ton of PITA.
FWIW, one of the reasons they've gone to "lifetime fill" is the same reason your ball joints no longer have zerks on them to service the grease inside. The warranty engineers found out the techs injecting the grease into the joints also managed to get a small shot of dirt in the joint, so it actually shortened service life. Ball joints an owner can service went away in the late 70s for this exact reason.
So assuming you can drain and refill without getting dirt in the transmission, even with one of those magic fluid swap gizmos is way beyond optimistic. Take a look at Just F Me's thread with the two ATF UOAs in it. Notice the insolubles in his vs. mine? Somehow, dirt got in his gearbox. Mine never had a plug touched on it until I took the sample. If someone at some point "serviced" his gearbox and got dirt in it, voila! We have the big difference between his UOA and mine.
So assuming you can change this 1. without introducing contaminants, 2. with enough of a fluid swap to be effective, 3. while getting the fluid level correct, is a pretty tall order. It's also why I didn't change the fluid in my gearbox after I got my analysis results.
04-13-16, 08:40 PM
#171
i've been reading about this tranny fluid change/flush since I bought my GS in 2013. 105,000 miles on my 07 GS 350 and no issues. 78,000 miles on my 08 IS F and no issues. i'm going to check the service history on my F since i want to know if the previous owner did any required maintenance at the dealer.
04-13-16, 10:41 PM
#172
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Carefully pull the level plug with the engine off. It will give you a lot more than the 2 ounces you need. Measure what you remove and replace at least the same amount with fresh fluid through the fill port.
04-14-16, 05:40 AM
#173
Driver School Candidate
Ok, thanks!! I'm so **** about maintenance on my vehicles that I never want to buy used cars because I know most people don't care as much as I do and follow factory basic instructions. I go around and around about what to do with this whole transmission fluid ordeal. However, the idea of taking a sample and sending it to blackstone is like. They should be the experts in this and if they say the oil still has life and is still protecting the car as if the oil was new, then you can't argue with that. So as it ages I will just keep doing that until they say otherwise. Why keep losing sweat over something that may not be there.
I'm sure that's what all these mfg do when they want to make a recommendation of changing something. They probably put on a test, run the car, do an analysis on the oil and see how well it performs and then make their recommendations. We all know Lexus isn't testing their products and making maintenance recommendations based on how the oil looks over time. They have to do what blackstone does to really know the facts. Who knows, Lexus may even use Blackstone for all we know.
I like this idea very much, now I know how to do it. Or at least tell the Christian Brother's staff how to do it for me since I can't. Thanks a bunch.
Lobuxracer - so you have put a lot of miles on your car without any issues yet to your oil. How have you driven most of those miles? Like a normal car most of the time or are you always taking off every time you start with a hard start, driving it like you stole per say almost all the time? Of course you can't floor it every chance you can get but really punch it all the time.
I'm sure that's what all these mfg do when they want to make a recommendation of changing something. They probably put on a test, run the car, do an analysis on the oil and see how well it performs and then make their recommendations. We all know Lexus isn't testing their products and making maintenance recommendations based on how the oil looks over time. They have to do what blackstone does to really know the facts. Who knows, Lexus may even use Blackstone for all we know.
I like this idea very much, now I know how to do it. Or at least tell the Christian Brother's staff how to do it for me since I can't. Thanks a bunch.
Lobuxracer - so you have put a lot of miles on your car without any issues yet to your oil. How have you driven most of those miles? Like a normal car most of the time or are you always taking off every time you start with a hard start, driving it like you stole per say almost all the time? Of course you can't floor it every chance you can get but really punch it all the time.
04-14-16, 10:55 AM
#174
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
125+k miles. I track my car and drive it as it was meant to be driven.
04-14-16, 11:10 AM
#175
Driver School Candidate
Wow. I know Lexus is one of the best reliability wise but I've been worried about how long my transmission will go. But I always thought this car was driven to do one thing and I would think Lexus would build it knowing that, make it the best you can, put in the best quality parts you can, etc. Getting 125K miles without issue and driving it like you stole it really gives me assurance it was well built and I shouldn't worry.
Thanks! I wonder if any of that would hold up with a American brand car or even BMW, Infiniti, etc. Or Those owners never see 125K miles without a blown transmission driving it like you should.
Thanks! I wonder if any of that would hold up with a American brand car or even BMW, Infiniti, etc. Or Those owners never see 125K miles without a blown transmission driving it like you should.
04-14-16, 06:47 PM
#176
Driver School Candidate
lobuxracer - when it comes to oil changes, have you sent any samples to Blackstone to know when you should really change it? Is the oil spent before or after 5K miles? Manual doesn't say if you should use synthetic or not. I'm curious to see what BS says about the oil once it has 4-5 miles on the oil.
My car has less than 400 miles on it. I went ahead and change the oil after driving it off the lot with Valvoline Sync. At first, I couldn't even see it. Now, it is starting to show a tad bit of color, telling me it is doing its job but surprised to see color so quickly. Will keep checking it before 5K to see how it progresses.
My car has less than 400 miles on it. I went ahead and change the oil after driving it off the lot with Valvoline Sync. At first, I couldn't even see it. Now, it is starting to show a tad bit of color, telling me it is doing its job but surprised to see color so quickly. Will keep checking it before 5K to see how it progresses.
04-15-16, 05:18 AM
#177
Pit Crew
Could those that supplied samples please clear something up... if they were original fill, partially changed, or topped up at any point?
With all due respect to those that run their fluid until it is completely used up.... My philosophy here is to keep the ATF in a good/strong condition. 100,000 mile fluid that is almost done has little chance of holding together if something is stressed or goes wrong. The fact that checking the condition of the fluid falls under the PITA area of things makes keeping it in top shape that much more important, IMO. Items like spare tires, first aid kits, and fire extinguishers are things we keep around, and hope we won't ever need to use... I keep the fluid in these transmissions in top shape and hope it never needs to be utilized... but it will be there if required.
With all due respect to those that run their fluid until it is completely used up.... My philosophy here is to keep the ATF in a good/strong condition. 100,000 mile fluid that is almost done has little chance of holding together if something is stressed or goes wrong. The fact that checking the condition of the fluid falls under the PITA area of things makes keeping it in top shape that much more important, IMO. Items like spare tires, first aid kits, and fire extinguishers are things we keep around, and hope we won't ever need to use... I keep the fluid in these transmissions in top shape and hope it never needs to be utilized... but it will be there if required.
04-15-16, 06:25 AM
#178
Driver School Candidate
Jowett, That's the problem. Replacing the fluid just to be safe is a simple solution if it was that. When the MFG says it isn't required and doesn't appear that Lexus has a procedure on how to do it properly for the techs, I would be concerned with doing it and causing more harm than good because it isn't done properly. Doesn't appear to be as simple as changing engine oil. A company like Blackstone can give you an idea of how much life is left or if it is hanging on for dear life.
04-15-16, 11:55 AM
#179
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
lobuxracer - when it comes to oil changes, have you sent any samples to Blackstone to know when you should really change it? Is the oil spent before or after 5K miles? Manual doesn't say if you should use synthetic or not. I'm curious to see what BS says about the oil once it has 4-5 miles on the oil.
My car has less than 400 miles on it. I went ahead and change the oil after driving it off the lot with Valvoline Sync. At first, I couldn't even see it. Now, it is starting to show a tad bit of color, telling me it is doing its job but surprised to see color so quickly. Will keep checking it before 5K to see how it progresses.
My car has less than 400 miles on it. I went ahead and change the oil after driving it off the lot with Valvoline Sync. At first, I couldn't even see it. Now, it is starting to show a tad bit of color, telling me it is doing its job but surprised to see color so quickly. Will keep checking it before 5K to see how it progresses.
Could those that supplied samples please clear something up... if they were original fill, partially changed, or topped up at any point?
With all due respect to those that run their fluid until it is completely used up.... My philosophy here is to keep the ATF in a good/strong condition. 100,000 mile fluid that is almost done has little chance of holding together if something is stressed or goes wrong. The fact that checking the condition of the fluid falls under the PITA area of things makes keeping it in top shape that much more important, IMO. Items like spare tires, first aid kits, and fire extinguishers are things we keep around, and hope we won't ever need to use... I keep the fluid in these transmissions in top shape and hope it never needs to be utilized... but it will be there if required.
With all due respect to those that run their fluid until it is completely used up.... My philosophy here is to keep the ATF in a good/strong condition. 100,000 mile fluid that is almost done has little chance of holding together if something is stressed or goes wrong. The fact that checking the condition of the fluid falls under the PITA area of things makes keeping it in top shape that much more important, IMO. Items like spare tires, first aid kits, and fire extinguishers are things we keep around, and hope we won't ever need to use... I keep the fluid in these transmissions in top shape and hope it never needs to be utilized... but it will be there if required.
Jowett, That's the problem. Replacing the fluid just to be safe is a simple solution if it was that. When the MFG says it isn't required and doesn't appear that Lexus has a procedure on how to do it properly for the techs, I would be concerned with doing it and causing more harm than good because it isn't done properly. Doesn't appear to be as simple as changing engine oil. A company like Blackstone can give you an idea of how much life is left or if it is hanging on for dear life.
I can't say I like the idea of a lifetime fill, but I'm also not the sharpest crayon in the box, and I have had my butt handed to me a couple of different times by people armed with data against my feel good experience. One of those times was a female aircraft mechanic. She really knew her stuff inside and out, but that stands to reason when you think about being a female working on jets. Anyway, I have no evidence to doubt Lexus, Toyota, and Aisin's guidance on the fluid. The lack of evidence and the lack of statistically significant failures leads me to believe I am better off just ensuring the level remains where it should be, and continue to sample so I know when to make the rather significant effort to get the fluid swapped out.
04-15-16, 01:49 PM
#180
Pit Crew
My analogies refer to having something extra in the case of an emergency. The "extra" in the case of transmission emergency is having the fluid on the better side of the spectrum should the transmission get hot or overheat.That is the WS fluids weakness... one good overheat and the fluid needs to be swapped, on older fluid, get it a little hot and it may one and done. While the IS F has an undoubtedly well designed and stronger system than say a Camry or 4-Runner, and is less likely to have problems with it's massive 12 quarts and two coolers, we don't need to look only at it for data. Toyota/Lexus has been using this fluid in most of the auto transmissions it manufactures and sells for over a decade.... It's a high quality mineral based fluid and has limitations. I've personally seen the results when fluid gets hot or overheats and completely fails... it's not pretty or cheap.