ZF’s 8-Speed Automatic Transmission in our ISF
07-20-12, 06:19 AM
#16
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What do you guys think of the likelihood of this transmission staying in the next generation IS-F?
I've always thought the 8-speed direct shift auto is one of the F's greatest points. Lightning fast shifting, can be driven like a granny in regular auto mode to keep the revs low to save on gas and also a rev-holding aggressive monster when you feel like pushing it, in both auto sport mode and manual mode. It's also proven to be rock-solid reliable for long-term mileage even if you track it on occasion, on top of all those benefits as well. I think it's the best of all worlds when it comes to transmissions, maybe except for weight.
So when people are speculating on the next gen with these spyshots with prototype/mules, why the constant harping about "needs a different transmission"? OK some might prefer stick shift with a traditional clutch but other than that, I really don't get the whining about it and the common insistence that it be changed to a DCT or PDK or whatever? (I haven't driven a PDK but I've driven a dual clutch and I don't see what the big deal is.)
Do any of you all feel the same way?
I've always thought the 8-speed direct shift auto is one of the F's greatest points. Lightning fast shifting, can be driven like a granny in regular auto mode to keep the revs low to save on gas and also a rev-holding aggressive monster when you feel like pushing it, in both auto sport mode and manual mode. It's also proven to be rock-solid reliable for long-term mileage even if you track it on occasion, on top of all those benefits as well. I think it's the best of all worlds when it comes to transmissions, maybe except for weight.
So when people are speculating on the next gen with these spyshots with prototype/mules, why the constant harping about "needs a different transmission"? OK some might prefer stick shift with a traditional clutch but other than that, I really don't get the whining about it and the common insistence that it be changed to a DCT or PDK or whatever? (I haven't driven a PDK but I've driven a dual clutch and I don't see what the big deal is.)
Do any of you all feel the same way?
07-20-12, 07:28 AM
#17
Lexus Champion
What do you guys think of the likelihood of this transmission staying in the next generation IS-F?
I've always thought the 8-speed direct shift auto is one of the F's greatest points. Lightning fast shifting, can be driven like a granny in regular auto mode to keep the revs low to save on gas and also a rev-holding aggressive monster when you feel like pushing it, in both auto sport mode and manual mode. It's also proven to be rock-solid reliable for long-term mileage even if you track it on occasion, on top of all those benefits as well. I think it's the best of all worlds when it comes to transmissions, maybe except for weight.
So when people are speculating on the next gen with these spyshots with prototype/mules, why the constant harping about "needs a different transmission"? OK some might prefer stick shift with a traditional clutch but other than that, I really don't get the whining about it and the common insistence that it be changed to a DCT or PDK or whatever? (I haven't driven a PDK but I've driven a dual clutch and I don't see what the big deal is.)
Do any of you all feel the same way?
I've always thought the 8-speed direct shift auto is one of the F's greatest points. Lightning fast shifting, can be driven like a granny in regular auto mode to keep the revs low to save on gas and also a rev-holding aggressive monster when you feel like pushing it, in both auto sport mode and manual mode. It's also proven to be rock-solid reliable for long-term mileage even if you track it on occasion, on top of all those benefits as well. I think it's the best of all worlds when it comes to transmissions, maybe except for weight.
So when people are speculating on the next gen with these spyshots with prototype/mules, why the constant harping about "needs a different transmission"? OK some might prefer stick shift with a traditional clutch but other than that, I really don't get the whining about it and the common insistence that it be changed to a DCT or PDK or whatever? (I haven't driven a PDK but I've driven a dual clutch and I don't see what the big deal is.)
Do any of you all feel the same way?
DCT stands for dual clutch technology...PDK is a dual clutch built by ZF and Porsche. Porsche just wants to be different so they call their tranny a PDK. Some crazy german word.
Just F Me I will gladly tell my service rep that he does not know what he is talking about. I have wanted to do it for some time now. However, the tech that works on my car is the only one allowed to work on the LFA that is in the area. I trust the tech. The service rep not so much.
BTW...I used to be a car guy...but not a car guy that tried to fix my own car...etc. But a few years back when I was 19, I had purchased my first new car...a 2003 Honda Civic Si... I babied the thing. I took it in to the dealer for it's oil changes. I paid for the 10,000 mile intermediate service....until i got to the 25,000 mile service........the guy was like...you need new brake pads and rotors. I was like...what? How much? $350 something dollars to do the front. Said he was going to turn the rotors, but then he recommends that I get new ones....WTF? I go online...look around...took off my wheels...and looked and the pad was SUPER thick still... Long story short...I drove another 28,000 miles before I had to replace the pads...the rotors were fine (I learned to buy a micrometer and measure the thickness of the disc). NEVER AGAIN will I take it to someone else to service unless it's something very major.
New generation cars can run 100s of thousands of miles...just do the maintenance. I suggest everyone open up their owners manual and read what you need to do...you'll be surprised how easy it is to do. Same with replacing brakes....To pay a dealership $1600 to replace brakes is nuts. Save yourself $1000 and learn something.
Someone posted something before about the Service Rep telling him he's got 1mm of pad left after having the car for 10,000 miles. I BET YOU that wasn't the case.
They can always make revisions to make it better...but I think 8-speed is the way it's going to stay for fuel economy. BMW and a lot of other companies are going 8-speed. AMG has their 7-speed as well. But I hope for the joy of driving that they'll release the next gen IS F with a manual or at least offer it...
Last edited by Just F Me; 07-20-12 at 07:35 AM.
07-20-12, 07:59 AM
#18
DCT = Dual Clutch Transmission
PDK = Porsche Doppelkupplung
DCT = PDK
I think we have a great transmission on the ISF, but it can be improved big time! The first thing that I'd do is what MB did in their 2012 C63, a fast sequencial tranny (like ours) but with a dual clutch only for first gear, that way we forget about the torque converter and can have great launches (and maybe a launch control feature). Also I remember reading years ago, when the ISF was under development, that the software that controls the tranny was set at a compromise between fast and smooth (so it stays within Lexus standards), but during testing they had lighting fast shifts, faster than the 0.1s that we have now in M mode, but they weren't smooth enough for the brand. What??? Lexus, give us the whole thing, have an LS mode (for Lexus Sport mode) and set the shifting time at 0.1s, then add a real M mode and set it up well under 0.1s (and if you want show a disclaimer saying that shifting will be violent and pregnant women and people with heart conditions should avoid it).
Joe, great tranny pictures, can we have wallpaper sizes such as 1920x1020 or 1920x1200?
PDK = Porsche Doppelkupplung
DCT = PDK
I think we have a great transmission on the ISF, but it can be improved big time! The first thing that I'd do is what MB did in their 2012 C63, a fast sequencial tranny (like ours) but with a dual clutch only for first gear, that way we forget about the torque converter and can have great launches (and maybe a launch control feature). Also I remember reading years ago, when the ISF was under development, that the software that controls the tranny was set at a compromise between fast and smooth (so it stays within Lexus standards), but during testing they had lighting fast shifts, faster than the 0.1s that we have now in M mode, but they weren't smooth enough for the brand. What??? Lexus, give us the whole thing, have an LS mode (for Lexus Sport mode) and set the shifting time at 0.1s, then add a real M mode and set it up well under 0.1s (and if you want show a disclaimer saying that shifting will be violent and pregnant women and people with heart conditions should avoid it).
Joe, great tranny pictures, can we have wallpaper sizes such as 1920x1020 or 1920x1200?
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Leander311 (07-24-23)
07-20-12, 09:13 AM
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07-20-12, 03:33 PM
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12-13-16, 08:11 AM
#25
I know I know... old thread. But I'm deep into my IS-F research and curious about its transmission.
First, a little history. I've been loving my '09 IS350 since 2011 and 65k miles, and 5 years later now have ~190k on her with zero, zip, zilch problems whatsoever!! Ok ok... The trunk switch cover was just replaced as the rubber was getting gummy, but I'm not counting that. For mods, Lexi has very little: a Joe-Z intake and F-sport springs/shocks, and as such is a little rough on older roads, but worth it to serve as an otherwise sleepy track screamer. In fact, when my college buddy had us all out for his McLaren P1 delivery at Texas World Speedway, we mere mortals with mortal vehicles drove the bottom half of each hour (the P1 racing to set the track's road car lap record each other half), and SCCA Solo II Nationals podium finisher Dr. Bob Woods in his ~450hp BMW e39 M5 (Dinan S2 package) could not shake me - and finally waved me on to pass him. Perhaps the highlight of my driving career, with my all-season-tire-shod IS350 deserving much of the credit. I hadn't even remembered to put Lexi in manual mode!
Fast forward a couple years. I had planned to hold out for a gently used latest-gen CTS-V with its incredible 640hp and 10-speed auto, but GM isn't gracing the V with 10-spd machinery until at least 2018, which means 2020-21ish before I could afford a used one. Meanwhile, I fall more in love with my IS and the Lexus brand each day. Well-loved IS-F's with 80-100k are becoming *very* affordable, and I was shocked to see the kind of gains simple I/H/E mods will provide - so it's decided! I'm holding out for a 2011-2012 with its notably-improved suspension, and naturally I'm curious about durability of the Aisin tranny given the added torque these mods will provide, not to mention I'll likely be in high-mileage territory in whatever I buy.
The original link to the Lexus write-up is now broken, but I found some detailed info assembled by a Supra tuner, here: http://www.supra-2urgse.com/wp-conte...ration-pt1.pdf
Here's another couple that discuss the new GM offering as a replacement of the Aisin unit, the Aisin being limited to installation into the CTS V-Sport: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014...0821-8l90.html
and http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...ission-117211/
Even the V-Sport's Aisin unit includes additional clutch plates and heat treatment of some parts to handle its 430lb-ft.
Any other recent news on the IS-F's Aisin? Failure reports? Other concerns? There may be other threads on this, but it seems there are some knowledgeable and interested folks here... Seemed like a good place to start. Thanks!
First, a little history. I've been loving my '09 IS350 since 2011 and 65k miles, and 5 years later now have ~190k on her with zero, zip, zilch problems whatsoever!! Ok ok... The trunk switch cover was just replaced as the rubber was getting gummy, but I'm not counting that. For mods, Lexi has very little: a Joe-Z intake and F-sport springs/shocks, and as such is a little rough on older roads, but worth it to serve as an otherwise sleepy track screamer. In fact, when my college buddy had us all out for his McLaren P1 delivery at Texas World Speedway, we mere mortals with mortal vehicles drove the bottom half of each hour (the P1 racing to set the track's road car lap record each other half), and SCCA Solo II Nationals podium finisher Dr. Bob Woods in his ~450hp BMW e39 M5 (Dinan S2 package) could not shake me - and finally waved me on to pass him. Perhaps the highlight of my driving career, with my all-season-tire-shod IS350 deserving much of the credit. I hadn't even remembered to put Lexi in manual mode!
Fast forward a couple years. I had planned to hold out for a gently used latest-gen CTS-V with its incredible 640hp and 10-speed auto, but GM isn't gracing the V with 10-spd machinery until at least 2018, which means 2020-21ish before I could afford a used one. Meanwhile, I fall more in love with my IS and the Lexus brand each day. Well-loved IS-F's with 80-100k are becoming *very* affordable, and I was shocked to see the kind of gains simple I/H/E mods will provide - so it's decided! I'm holding out for a 2011-2012 with its notably-improved suspension, and naturally I'm curious about durability of the Aisin tranny given the added torque these mods will provide, not to mention I'll likely be in high-mileage territory in whatever I buy.
The original link to the Lexus write-up is now broken, but I found some detailed info assembled by a Supra tuner, here: http://www.supra-2urgse.com/wp-conte...ration-pt1.pdf
Here's another couple that discuss the new GM offering as a replacement of the Aisin unit, the Aisin being limited to installation into the CTS V-Sport: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014...0821-8l90.html
and http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...ission-117211/
Even the V-Sport's Aisin unit includes additional clutch plates and heat treatment of some parts to handle its 430lb-ft.
Any other recent news on the IS-F's Aisin? Failure reports? Other concerns? There may be other threads on this, but it seems there are some knowledgeable and interested folks here... Seemed like a good place to start. Thanks!
Last edited by Leander311; 12-13-16 at 08:14 AM. Reason: Grammar
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