Clear Bra Install Pics - Questions and Concerns
05-05-11, 07:23 AM
#31
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My installer told me to use Plexus plastic cleaner/polish on the VentureShield PPF every now and then. But he also said that the film could be waxed just like the rest of the car. 
05-05-11, 03:15 PM
#32
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I did some research and it does appear certain brands are fine to wax or polish. Some people say absolutly not and others includiing some installers say it is fine. Nothing aggressive though.
05-05-11, 06:23 PM
#33
Lexus Connoisseur
Plexus is actually a good clear bra cleaner. It's designed to work with soft plastic/urethane finishes.
05-05-11, 06:51 PM
#34
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05-05-11, 07:55 PM
#35
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Are you serious about not polishing/waxing before hand?
Well this is what happened. The Zaino detailer did the full prep BEFORE the Clear Bra. He dawned washed it, Clay Bared it, washed it, Z-AIO, three layers of Z2, then Z8. After all that, the Clear Bra installer installed all the Bra's. Could that cause it to lift up, bubble, finger and for the plastic to look wavy/melted on the hood? It wouldn't explain for the particles under the Clear Bra though....
So if this guy does a complete redo (I will speak with him on Thursday), after he removes the Clear Bra, I should ask him to do a new dawn wash, clay bar again?
Thanks.
Well this is what happened. The Zaino detailer did the full prep BEFORE the Clear Bra. He dawned washed it, Clay Bared it, washed it, Z-AIO, three layers of Z2, then Z8. After all that, the Clear Bra installer installed all the Bra's. Could that cause it to lift up, bubble, finger and for the plastic to look wavy/melted on the hood? It wouldn't explain for the particles under the Clear Bra though....
So if this guy does a complete redo (I will speak with him on Thursday), after he removes the Clear Bra, I should ask him to do a new dawn wash, clay bar again?
Thanks.
To be honest, you should be cleaning/protecting your clear bra with a proper plastic/vinyl cleaner/protectant, not a regular paint polish/sealant/wax. Clear bra even with a top coating is porous. Applying the wrong materials on the clear bra will accelerate deterioration and yellowing of the film overtime.
As far as prep on a fresh paint surface, you should apply clear bra on a surface with no kind of paint sealant/wax etc. The surface should be clean and bare. A good clear bra installer knows to clean the paint surface with a good wax remover/surface cleaner. 3M makes a cleaner that will strip the paint surface cleanly. Don't use dawn or any dishwashing soap to strip the paint surface of any kind of wax or protectant. That's a big no no in the basics Detailing 101.
As far as prep on a fresh paint surface, you should apply clear bra on a surface with no kind of paint sealant/wax etc. The surface should be clean and bare. A good clear bra installer knows to clean the paint surface with a good wax remover/surface cleaner. 3M makes a cleaner that will strip the paint surface cleanly. Don't use dawn or any dishwashing soap to strip the paint surface of any kind of wax or protectant. That's a big no no in the basics Detailing 101.
05-05-11, 08:50 PM
#36
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Well I met with the installer today and he agreed to redo several pieces, but not all of them. Not all the pieces had major flaws and a few bubbles probably do not warrant a full fender replacement.
He agreed to redo the roof piece and admitted it should have been about and 1/8th of an inch further back. He also agreed to redo both side mirrors, both headlights and the bumper. He is using the Xpel patterns and said after doing the ISF and seeing the result of the mirrors, that the patterns should be a little bit smaller for the headlights and side mirrors.
At first, he said he would just score (sp?) the fingers on the bumper, so there would be several triangles on the sides, but I told him that I was not comfortable with that and there is also the problem with the piece of hair. He said if the hair was on the passenger side where I wouldn't see it every time I got into my car, that he would say live with it. I said the bumper has most of the problems and he pondered for awhile and agreed to redo it.
This is the first ISF that he had done and of course the first full ISF hood. He told me that when doing the hood, that he started in the back towards the windshield and worked towards the front of the car. I mentioned to him that the pictures of installs that I had seen of full hoods (not ISFs), that they started from the front. He said the lines in the bra of the hood are called "work lines" and show up when the plastic becomes stressed and stretched over many curves. Of course, I'v never done a clear bra install, never seen a pro do an install, never seen a full ISF hood, so I had no idea if he was BSing or if that is true. He said that there is a chance if he redid the hood, that it could look worse. He did mention that it seems the xpel ultimate film is more susceptible to "work lines" because they did not show up at all on the Avery film. He said when Avery comes out with a larger cut sheet for the hood, he would redo the full hood with new film for $150-$200.
As for the white particle in the fender vent area on the passenger side, he said he will attempt a lift of the clear bra to remove it. He mentioned some 3M adhesive stuff that should allow it to lay flat again. He did mention that there will be a "work line" where the life ends, but he can end it right under the curve that is about 3 inches below the "F" on the fender. If he stops it there, you most likely won't see it. He said he will replace the whole fender if the Bra does not lay flat and he will know it rather quickly if it doesn't.
I told him to just lift and remove the "trough" area Clear Bra strips and not to redo them.
I brought up the idea of having polish on the car before a Clear Bra. He said the reason for having the polish on first is it helps with the installing of the Bra and allows the installer to position it easier without it grabbing. But I told him I'd rather the Bra have a better grab and lay flat without fingers and lifted ends than make the job easier for the installer. He also said after all of his installs, he sets the vehicles out in the sun so the warmth accelerates the curing process. He says after that time he usually see fingers and knows if he has to fix any problems. Again not knowing any other installers and never had experience doing it, I do not know if the "sitting out in the sun" is the wrong or right thing.
We scheduled next Tuesday for the redo and he asked if I could leave the car overnight in his shop, so if any issues come up he can address them in the morning.
He agreed to redo the roof piece and admitted it should have been about and 1/8th of an inch further back. He also agreed to redo both side mirrors, both headlights and the bumper. He is using the Xpel patterns and said after doing the ISF and seeing the result of the mirrors, that the patterns should be a little bit smaller for the headlights and side mirrors.
At first, he said he would just score (sp?) the fingers on the bumper, so there would be several triangles on the sides, but I told him that I was not comfortable with that and there is also the problem with the piece of hair. He said if the hair was on the passenger side where I wouldn't see it every time I got into my car, that he would say live with it. I said the bumper has most of the problems and he pondered for awhile and agreed to redo it.
This is the first ISF that he had done and of course the first full ISF hood. He told me that when doing the hood, that he started in the back towards the windshield and worked towards the front of the car. I mentioned to him that the pictures of installs that I had seen of full hoods (not ISFs), that they started from the front. He said the lines in the bra of the hood are called "work lines" and show up when the plastic becomes stressed and stretched over many curves. Of course, I'v never done a clear bra install, never seen a pro do an install, never seen a full ISF hood, so I had no idea if he was BSing or if that is true. He said that there is a chance if he redid the hood, that it could look worse. He did mention that it seems the xpel ultimate film is more susceptible to "work lines" because they did not show up at all on the Avery film. He said when Avery comes out with a larger cut sheet for the hood, he would redo the full hood with new film for $150-$200.
As for the white particle in the fender vent area on the passenger side, he said he will attempt a lift of the clear bra to remove it. He mentioned some 3M adhesive stuff that should allow it to lay flat again. He did mention that there will be a "work line" where the life ends, but he can end it right under the curve that is about 3 inches below the "F" on the fender. If he stops it there, you most likely won't see it. He said he will replace the whole fender if the Bra does not lay flat and he will know it rather quickly if it doesn't.
I told him to just lift and remove the "trough" area Clear Bra strips and not to redo them.
I brought up the idea of having polish on the car before a Clear Bra. He said the reason for having the polish on first is it helps with the installing of the Bra and allows the installer to position it easier without it grabbing. But I told him I'd rather the Bra have a better grab and lay flat without fingers and lifted ends than make the job easier for the installer. He also said after all of his installs, he sets the vehicles out in the sun so the warmth accelerates the curing process. He says after that time he usually see fingers and knows if he has to fix any problems. Again not knowing any other installers and never had experience doing it, I do not know if the "sitting out in the sun" is the wrong or right thing.
We scheduled next Tuesday for the redo and he asked if I could leave the car overnight in his shop, so if any issues come up he can address them in the morning.
05-06-11, 10:14 AM
#37
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Get your money back and RUN. His ideas are ALL band-aids, so that he does not incur additional costs with new film, and more labor time. It is clear by your pictures that he is not experienced and did a sloppy and unprofesional job. This would be like a woman getting breast implants, having a botched surgery, and going back to the same surgeon to fix the issues, instead of finding a new competent one. Fair warning.
05-06-11, 12:22 PM
#38
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Yea true. I don't trust him at all with my car, but there is the issue of money.
I still, have yet to pay him. If I just don't show up, he will want his money. Then what, small claims court, etc? I'd rather not get in trouble with the law.
I still, have yet to pay him. If I just don't show up, he will want his money. Then what, small claims court, etc? I'd rather not get in trouble with the law.
05-06-11, 01:27 PM
#39
Former Sponsor
Madoshi, I'm glad to hear that your installer has offered to redo some of the trouble areas. I can attest that the ISF hood is one of the harder full hoods to do for a clear bra installer. I think you can ask Philip and he will tell you what we went through on his (our first ISF install).
From a clear bra installer/trainer's point of view, it should be remembered that some slight visual tolerance should always be allowed for a clear bra installation, though in your case, I agree the imperfections were excessive. No slam to the installer at all, as he seems to be ready to make some things right. Paint Protection Film is meant to protect your vehicles paint, not make the paint look better. When you find an installer that over delivers, that is a huge plus!
As for a clear coat, I'm not sure that Xpel has an actual clear coat, as the only film I know of that has an actual Patented Flexible Clear Coat is 3M Scotchgard. VentureShield Ultra and a couple others have what is referred to as "Top Coat," Technology which is better than an uncoated film.
The actual clear coat on 3M will help keep the film looking newer longer, and will require a bit less maintenance than other films, however, in most cases you should never use wax on your clear bra. There are just too many wax products on the market to account for how each one affects film. Waxes with dyes and/or petroleum are especially harmful to a clear bra. While we used to recommend Plexus, using something like 3M's Performance finish is probably your best bet for any clear bra, in that it keeps the film conditioned, and serves as a bit of a sealant to help prevent dust, etc., from getting in to the pours of the film.
As far as some of the lifting on the OP's edges, we have heard that this is a more common problem for Avery's new film, though I can't say that about the Xpel films.
Unlike Avery, VentureShield Ultra is available in a 60" wide format and has been for years.
As far as waxing the paint before an install, I have seen it done in some cases, however for the most part, most installers will be removing wax before the installation.
Ryan, noticed some old facts that you mentioned. Xpel does NOT source or use 3M film at all. Xpel used to be a training center and distributor for 3M film, but it has been at least 3 years since they have had anything to do with one another.
I know some of this has nothing to do with the OP, however, I thought I'd shed a little light on the world of Paint Protection Film.
If anyone needs a referral to a 3M or Venture Certified installer, please feel free to fire me off an e-mail (I'm not on quite enough to rely on PM's). As California's Premier Distributor for 3M Scotchgard and VentureShield, we have a wide network of installers that we sell to, and if you are outside of our area, I can connect you with the distribution center in your area for a referral.
My best,
Jason
From a clear bra installer/trainer's point of view, it should be remembered that some slight visual tolerance should always be allowed for a clear bra installation, though in your case, I agree the imperfections were excessive. No slam to the installer at all, as he seems to be ready to make some things right. Paint Protection Film is meant to protect your vehicles paint, not make the paint look better. When you find an installer that over delivers, that is a huge plus!
As for a clear coat, I'm not sure that Xpel has an actual clear coat, as the only film I know of that has an actual Patented Flexible Clear Coat is 3M Scotchgard. VentureShield Ultra and a couple others have what is referred to as "Top Coat," Technology which is better than an uncoated film.
The actual clear coat on 3M will help keep the film looking newer longer, and will require a bit less maintenance than other films, however, in most cases you should never use wax on your clear bra. There are just too many wax products on the market to account for how each one affects film. Waxes with dyes and/or petroleum are especially harmful to a clear bra. While we used to recommend Plexus, using something like 3M's Performance finish is probably your best bet for any clear bra, in that it keeps the film conditioned, and serves as a bit of a sealant to help prevent dust, etc., from getting in to the pours of the film.
As far as some of the lifting on the OP's edges, we have heard that this is a more common problem for Avery's new film, though I can't say that about the Xpel films.
Unlike Avery, VentureShield Ultra is available in a 60" wide format and has been for years.
As far as waxing the paint before an install, I have seen it done in some cases, however for the most part, most installers will be removing wax before the installation.
Ryan, noticed some old facts that you mentioned. Xpel does NOT source or use 3M film at all. Xpel used to be a training center and distributor for 3M film, but it has been at least 3 years since they have had anything to do with one another.
I know some of this has nothing to do with the OP, however, I thought I'd shed a little light on the world of Paint Protection Film.
If anyone needs a referral to a 3M or Venture Certified installer, please feel free to fire me off an e-mail (I'm not on quite enough to rely on PM's). As California's Premier Distributor for 3M Scotchgard and VentureShield, we have a wide network of installers that we sell to, and if you are outside of our area, I can connect you with the distribution center in your area for a referral.
My best,
Jason
05-06-11, 01:36 PM
#40
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You will not get in trouble with the law. Just tell him that you are not happy with the entire job, have him remove it, and you both can walk away from this.
05-08-11, 09:06 AM
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This car is not an easy one to do. I had them redo the bumper two times before it was right. The installer eventually had to make a custom pattern for the bumper which was bigger than the actual area so he had enough material to wrap it completely and then trim off the excess, otherwise you would get those fingers and imperfections. He also had to do the mirrors that way because fingers would start to form. I would have it redone until it is right.
05-08-11, 12:09 PM
#42
Lexus Connoisseur
If anyone needs a referral to a 3M or Venture Certified installer, please feel free to fire me off an e-mail (I'm not on quite enough to rely on PM's). As California's Premier Distributor for 3M Scotchgard and VentureShield, we have a wide network of installers that we sell to, and if you are outside of our area, I can connect you with the distribution center in your area for a referral.
My best,
Jason
And yes, Aerotect has done all the clear bra installs on my current ISF and previous Lexus vehicles. I learned a lot from them about the basics of clear bra. They are a very valuable asset to our community and we thank them greatly for being part of our family.
05-09-11, 09:09 AM
#43
Former Sponsor
Thanks for chiming in Jason!
And yes, Aerotect has done all the clear bra installs on my current ISF and previous Lexus vehicles. I learned a lot from them about the basics of clear bra. They are a very valuable asset to our community and we thank them greatly for being part of our family.
And yes, Aerotect has done all the clear bra installs on my current ISF and previous Lexus vehicles. I learned a lot from them about the basics of clear bra. They are a very valuable asset to our community and we thank them greatly for being part of our family.
05-09-11, 06:39 PM
#44
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The place I went to was also linked and referred to 3m as one of their installers, it was not around the block and a lil bit of a drive, but I tell ya, it was damn worth it and I'm sorry you had to go through this! Lesson learned we all go through it one way or another. Alot of people on this thread know what they're talking about, none of will steer you wrong. I know I'm lookin out for yours and your cars best interest. Shop around, cant hurt.
once again, good luck! do NOT go back there pleeeeeeeeez, your F will thank you!
02-25-15, 07:53 AM
#45
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I had my entire Toyota Highlander doneand it was perfect.
The people I used in houston did an outstanding job. Entire car, perfect. It cost 3500. I am going to get my GS 350 wrapped soon. The company is listed on the xpel website. They are called Houston PPF and the guy is William.