Complete IS-F Brake Thread (Under-construction)
06-27-18, 06:53 AM
#496
MX72 vs HC+800
This past spring, I started using the Endless MX72 pads for summer/track days (front only so far). I'd been using the PMU HC+800s for the past two summers, and still have them in the rear. It's been suggested that the MX72 might be the ideal all around street/track pad for our cars because they offer track-worthy performance, without all the noise & dust on the street that's typically associate with a high performance pad. Though, that desirable combo comes at a high price (costing twice as much as the PMUs).
Here's my opinion on each of three attributes listed above (note: I'm using these with RR Racing 2-piece rotors w/Girodisc discs & Motul RBF600 fluid).
Performance: Good initial bite, and a very consistent, linear feel to them. Predictable. The performance on the track is comparable to the HC+800s. However, they don't seem to hold up quite as well under extended periods of heavy use, probably due to their slightly lower max temp rating. After the last session of my last track day, a one lap cool-down wasn't quite enough. The pads were still smoking when I parked, so I drove around the paddock for a another couple minutes to cool them down. BTW, these were only 20 minute sessions. Also, they appear to be wearing at a much faster rate than the HC+800. IIRC, I got 8 or 9 track days out of my first set of HC+800s. I think I'll be lucky to get 5 or 6 out of these. Plus, the lower max temp is going to be an issue as I get faster, especially at events with 30 minute sessions. I'll be testing a DIY passive brake cooling solution this weekend to see if that helps. My score: 7/10
Noise: Pretty much silent since day one. My score: 10/10
Dust: Apparently, the "low dust" feature was not included in this particular set of pads. This was my primary motivation to try them. I'm a stickler for keeping my wheels clean, and they appear to be generating similar, if not more levels of dust than the HC+800s. Perhaps this is because the dust is a different color (like a dark brown vs black), which is more noticeable against my black wheels. Also, the dust seems to be more difficult to clean off. My score: 4/10
So, I think I'm going to be switching back to the HC+800 once these are done. I love the way the MX72 pads feel & perform on the street, and they're definitely good for limited track use. However, the dust & lack of endurance makes it difficult to justify the price.
-Mike
Here's my opinion on each of three attributes listed above (note: I'm using these with RR Racing 2-piece rotors w/Girodisc discs & Motul RBF600 fluid).
Performance: Good initial bite, and a very consistent, linear feel to them. Predictable. The performance on the track is comparable to the HC+800s. However, they don't seem to hold up quite as well under extended periods of heavy use, probably due to their slightly lower max temp rating. After the last session of my last track day, a one lap cool-down wasn't quite enough. The pads were still smoking when I parked, so I drove around the paddock for a another couple minutes to cool them down. BTW, these were only 20 minute sessions. Also, they appear to be wearing at a much faster rate than the HC+800. IIRC, I got 8 or 9 track days out of my first set of HC+800s. I think I'll be lucky to get 5 or 6 out of these. Plus, the lower max temp is going to be an issue as I get faster, especially at events with 30 minute sessions. I'll be testing a DIY passive brake cooling solution this weekend to see if that helps. My score: 7/10
Noise: Pretty much silent since day one. My score: 10/10
Dust: Apparently, the "low dust" feature was not included in this particular set of pads. This was my primary motivation to try them. I'm a stickler for keeping my wheels clean, and they appear to be generating similar, if not more levels of dust than the HC+800s. Perhaps this is because the dust is a different color (like a dark brown vs black), which is more noticeable against my black wheels. Also, the dust seems to be more difficult to clean off. My score: 4/10
So, I think I'm going to be switching back to the HC+800 once these are done. I love the way the MX72 pads feel & perform on the street, and they're definitely good for limited track use. However, the dust & lack of endurance makes it difficult to justify the price.
-Mike
Last edited by mikersoft; 06-27-18 at 07:29 AM.
06-27-18, 09:30 AM
#497
This past spring, I started using the Endless MX72 pads for summer/track days (front only so far). I'd been using the PMU HC+800s for the past two summers, and still have them in the rear. It's been suggested that the MX72 might be the ideal all around street/track pad for our cars because they offer track-worthy performance, without all the noise & dust on the street that's typically associate with a high performance pad. Though, that desirable combo comes at a high price (costing twice as much as the PMUs).
Here's my opinion on each of three attributes listed above (note: I'm using these with RR Racing 2-piece rotors w/Girodisc discs & Motul RBF600 fluid).
Performance: Good initial bite, and a very consistent, linear feel to them. Predictable. The performance on the track is comparable to the HC+800s. However, they don't seem to hold up quite as well under extended periods of heavy use, probably due to their slightly lower max temp rating. After the last session of my last track day, a one lap cool-down wasn't quite enough. The pads were still smoking when I parked, so I drove around the paddock for a another couple minutes to cool them down. BTW, these were only 20 minute sessions. Also, they appear to be wearing at a much faster rate than the HC+800. IIRC, I got 8 or 9 track days out of my first set of HC+800s. I think I'll be lucky to get 5 or 6 out of these. Plus, the lower max temp is going to be an issue as I get faster, especially at events with 30 minute sessions. I'll be testing a DIY passive brake cooling solution this weekend to see if that helps. My score: 7/10
Noise: Pretty much silent since day one. My score: 10/10
Dust: Apparently, the "low dust" feature was not included in this particular set of pads. This was my primary motivation to try them. I'm a stickler for keeping my wheels clean, and they appear to be generating similar, if not more levels of dust than the HC+800s. Perhaps this is because the dust is a different color (like a dark brown vs black), which is more noticeable against my black wheels. Also, the dust seems to be more difficult to clean off. My score: 4/10
So, I think I'm going to be switching back to the HC+800 once these are done. I love the way the MX72 pads feel & perform on the street, and they're definitely good for limited track use. However, the dust & lack of endurance makes it difficult to justify the price.
-Mike
Here's my opinion on each of three attributes listed above (note: I'm using these with RR Racing 2-piece rotors w/Girodisc discs & Motul RBF600 fluid).
Performance: Good initial bite, and a very consistent, linear feel to them. Predictable. The performance on the track is comparable to the HC+800s. However, they don't seem to hold up quite as well under extended periods of heavy use, probably due to their slightly lower max temp rating. After the last session of my last track day, a one lap cool-down wasn't quite enough. The pads were still smoking when I parked, so I drove around the paddock for a another couple minutes to cool them down. BTW, these were only 20 minute sessions. Also, they appear to be wearing at a much faster rate than the HC+800. IIRC, I got 8 or 9 track days out of my first set of HC+800s. I think I'll be lucky to get 5 or 6 out of these. Plus, the lower max temp is going to be an issue as I get faster, especially at events with 30 minute sessions. I'll be testing a DIY passive brake cooling solution this weekend to see if that helps. My score: 7/10
Noise: Pretty much silent since day one. My score: 10/10
Dust: Apparently, the "low dust" feature was not included in this particular set of pads. This was my primary motivation to try them. I'm a stickler for keeping my wheels clean, and they appear to be generating similar, if not more levels of dust than the HC+800s. Perhaps this is because the dust is a different color (like a dark brown vs black), which is more noticeable against my black wheels. Also, the dust seems to be more difficult to clean off. My score: 4/10
So, I think I'm going to be switching back to the HC+800 once these are done. I love the way the MX72 pads feel & perform on the street, and they're definitely good for limited track use. However, the dust & lack of endurance makes it difficult to justify the price.
-Mike
As far as the dust I'm most confused- they are certainly not dust free pads but they should only be emitting ~40% of what the HC+800 do at most. When rating the dust it's just on the street, correct? Or are you including dust output on track?
-Matt M.
06-28-18, 09:35 AM
#498
Lexus Test Driver
Great review @mikersoft. Once pads are beyond their temperature spec they are going to start to wear/lose material much faster. I'm guessing this is what you are experiencing. Question: are you running a DOT tire or R compound tire when at the track?
Thx, AA
Thx, AA
07-01-18, 12:04 PM
#499
Quick noob question.. I just got my front brakes done by an indy shop with all OEM (bought direct from the dealer) and noticed that the old shims were in the parts bin. I forgot to look into the brake pads kit, but do they come with new shims?
Or did they forget to reinstall and am i in for some trouble?
Or did they forget to reinstall and am i in for some trouble?
07-03-18, 12:50 PM
#500
Quick noob question.. I just got my front brakes done by an indy shop with all OEM (bought direct from the dealer) and noticed that the old shims were in the parts bin. I forgot to look into the brake pads kit, but do they come with new shims?
Or did they forget to reinstall and am i in for some trouble?
Or did they forget to reinstall and am i in for some trouble?
07-05-18, 08:27 AM
#501
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
I don't run shims with track pads ever. Not likely to be a big deal as long as there is brake grease/antiseize on the backing plate where the pistons touch it.
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F_Throttle (07-07-18)
07-06-18, 06:08 AM
#502
I was a bit worried about the MX72 for you after you went through the last set of HC+800 so quickly. It seems you are getting beyond the point of being able to use even the most aggressive street pads on track and might want to consider jumping up to a full on track compound for track events. Excess heat is definitely the enemy here as you continue to push more and more.
As far as the dust I'm most confused- they are certainly not dust free pads but they should only be emitting ~40% of what the HC+800 do at most. When rating the dust it's just on the street, correct? Or are you including dust output on track?
-Matt M.
As far as the dust I'm most confused- they are certainly not dust free pads but they should only be emitting ~40% of what the HC+800 do at most. When rating the dust it's just on the street, correct? Or are you including dust output on track?
-Matt M.
Regarding dust, I may have been a bit overzealous with my criticism. The dust is def more noticeable against the black finish of my new wheels. Plus, the finish on the OEM wheels may be more resistant to the dust sticking, so it's not necessarily an apples to apples comparison. Also, the dust levels seem to vary depending how many heat cycles they've been through & how hard they were pushed. After my first two track day with them, my wheels were filthy. However, after last weekend, I was surprised at how little dust remained compared the the previous two outings. Anyway, they're obviously not robust enough for my currently capabilities at the track, so the dust levels are kind of irrelevant at this point. I thought maybe I could have my cake & eat it too, but I guess I'll have to get used to cleaning wheels more often and/or swapping pads before & after track days.
-Mike
03-04-19, 12:38 PM
#503
Driver School Candidate
There is a lot of information here and it is very valuable but I still have a question. I went to the dealership today and they were saying my front brake pads were at 5mm and at 50% life. They usually recommend replacing at 30%. My front brake pads were replaced Aug 2017 and I have put 15,000 miles on my car since. I noticed others have stated that at about 20,000 miles is when their technicians have recommended replacing their pads so I assume this is normal. When I asked about cost for changing pads the tech told me that they do not just replace pads but they replace rotors as well and they would not just replace pads. I was surprised as I would think rotors would last longer. I am fine to pay the dealership if it is something that needs to be done but I do not want to pay for something that is not necessary. Is this true that going to the dealership they will not just replace pads and you have to get rotors as well?
03-04-19, 01:54 PM
#504
There is a lot of information here and it is very valuable but I still have a question. I went to the dealership today and they were saying my front brake pads were at 5mm and at 50% life. They usually recommend replacing at 30%. My front brake pads were replaced Aug 2017 and I have put 15,000 miles on my car since. I noticed others have stated that at about 20,000 miles is when their technicians have recommended replacing their pads so I assume this is normal. When I asked about cost for changing pads the tech told me that they do not just replace pads but they replace rotors as well and they would not just replace pads. I was surprised as I would think rotors would last longer. I am fine to pay the dealership if it is something that needs to be done but I do not want to pay for something that is not necessary. Is this true that going to the dealership they will not just replace pads and you have to get rotors as well?
Minimum rotor thickness for the IS-F should be: Front = 28 MM (New front is 30MM) & Rear 26 = MM (New rear is 28mm)
More info here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...ickness-2.html
What dealership is this?
03-04-19, 03:46 PM
#505
Driver School Candidate
You shouldnt have to replace the rotor with the pad change if it still has life.
Minimum rotor thickness for the IS-F should be: Front = 28 MM (New front is 30MM) & Rear 26 = MM (New rear is 28mm)
More info here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...ickness-2.html
What dealership is this?
Minimum rotor thickness for the IS-F should be: Front = 28 MM (New front is 30MM) & Rear 26 = MM (New rear is 28mm)
More info here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...ickness-2.html
What dealership is this?
Thank you for the information. The dealership was Lexus of Bellevue. My car was purchased new here and always serviced here. I am willing to pay for needed maintenance for my vehicle and will go to the dealership to get it done but I wish there was a bit of transparency that I would get at an independent shop. When I last took my car here I noticed one of my rims had a little curb damage but I could not be certain it was the dealership so I let it go. When I picked my car up today I immediately noticed deep scratches on the trunk of my car by the rear Lexus emblem. I pointed it out to the SA and they took care of it however it did cause me to lose trust in LOB service department as a whole.
03-04-19, 06:37 PM
#507
Thank you for the information. The dealership was Lexus of Bellevue. My car was purchased new here and always serviced here. I am willing to pay for needed maintenance for my vehicle and will go to the dealership to get it done but I wish there was a bit of transparency that I would get at an independent shop. When I last took my car here I noticed one of my rims had a little curb damage but I could not be certain it was the dealership so I let it go. When I picked my car up today I immediately noticed deep scratches on the trunk of my car by the rear Lexus emblem. I pointed it out to the SA and they took care of it however it did cause me to lose trust in LOB service department as a whole.
Good luck with what you decide. I did pads and rotors on my 2012 IS-F myself for around $300 (parts) and also started working on y 2015 GX460 now too since I was charged $370 JUST for rear pads last year at Lexus of Fife (same owner as Lexus of Bellevue). FWIW, I take the GX to Lexus of Tacoma/Fife for warranty work only and an oil change if happens to need it at that time. Otherwise, I've used Toyota dealership for oil changes.
03-05-19, 02:46 PM
#508
There is a lot of information here and it is very valuable but I still have a question. I went to the dealership today and they were saying my front brake pads were at 5mm and at 50% life. They usually recommend replacing at 30%. My front brake pads were replaced Aug 2017 and I have put 15,000 miles on my car since. I noticed others have stated that at about 20,000 miles is when their technicians have recommended replacing their pads so I assume this is normal. When I asked about cost for changing pads the tech told me that they do not just replace pads but they replace rotors as well and they would not just replace pads. I was surprised as I would think rotors would last longer. I am fine to pay the dealership if it is something that needs to be done but I do not want to pay for something that is not necessary. Is this true that going to the dealership they will not just replace pads and you have to get rotors as well?
03-05-19, 03:31 PM
#510
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
That all depends on whether you plan to use your discs again. If they're at or approaching minimum thickness, run them until the backing plate hits the ridge on the outside of the disc. It won't matter, you're throwing the disc away anyway. The only reason to change pads before they go metal on metal is to prevent damaging the disc. Besides, you'll know for sure when the backing plate hits the ridge. AMHIK.