Ramon

The IS-F was never ment to compete with the GTR. Nissan isn't marketing the GTR to go against the IS-F and Lexus isn't marketing the IS-F to go against the GTR. If you're looking for a sports car, the IS-F was never ment to appeal to you. Even though it is an "F" car, it is STILL a Luxury Sports Sedan. The GTR was build strictly for performance, the IS-F wasn't.

I do agree that a 60k base price is way too much for an IS-F though

Tekknikal

the ring times were done on re070 tires
the whole cut slick rumor started from translational errors

LexFather

You know I was going to edit my post b/c I've heard so much arguing now from both sides.
Honestly, I think it can hit that mark.

Tekknikal

ultimately people believe what they want.

one of the things that surprised me when i met with the heads of the project was how careful, circumspect, serious, and thorough they were. it wasnt quite what i expected, even though id been following the car since it was first greenlit around the time the Z was first unveiled.

i guess its easy to think that the pass was an estimated time or they just had a stopwatch or something and just cheered when clicked it and went home..but unfortunately reality is nothing like that.

they have complete telemetry for their runs through the ring. they've even gone faster than the 7-38. why they used the 7-38 time is another discussion but this is no media blitz campaign. its a serious endeavor that these guys put their hearts into. i cant explain it any more than that- ultimately people will believe what they want. the truth will be known eventually. and even then people can believe conspiracies if they want. it really doesnt matter. but if anyone does want to know more, there you go.

also you can read this, written by a guy from nissansport who was at TMS as well and met not only with the heads but with the engineering team for the car and also reps from the oems that helped make it happen

http://www.nagtroc.com/forums/index....dpost&p=290206

LexFather

Oh I believe it. People either don't know or forgot the GT-R was the first production car to lap the Ring under 8 minutes.

CrazyMPG

iTrader: (4)

dang...just saw the GTR at the LA Auto Show...and dayum!...I want that car as a weekend driver...and the IS-F as a daily driver! hahaha

TwiBlueG35

I think GT-R, IS-F, M3 coupe and sedan, RS4, and C63 AMG are all comparable. They fall in the $60k-$80k price range, they are all 400+hp fast cars with aggressive looks. Besides being four or two doors, the main difference is that GT-R is the only non-sedan-based car, it is independently developed. But does this matter to the buyers? Not really. Somebody mentioned that GT-R is a prestigious brand name itself, I agree. So those Lexus and Audi and Benz and BMW have no apparent prestigious advantages.
Corvette Z06 could be cross-shopped with GT-R, and as mentioned above, I think GT-R could be cross-shoped with IS-F, M3, RS4, and C63 AMG. But I don't think Z06 could be cross-shopped with those four performance sedans/coupe. I don't know why, I just have this feeling. As far as which one I could pick among these six cars, definitely GT-R. I just love its everything, its history, its GT-R badges, its styling both inside and out, its performance figures(on paper at least). The only thing I don't like about GT-R is its price . May be someone would even cross-shop M5 and GT-R also huh?

gengar

Of course the IS-F is poor in that area; every entry-level lux sedan is poor in that area. But the GT-R won't even be comparable. Motivemag is reporting rear hip room space as 18.1". 18 inches!! Who's going to fit back there, your dog? I sure won't.


Leftlanenews has quoted dealers as estimating a $15k markup.


As a matter of fact yes, yes it does. What you're skipping over is what class the car is in and what functionality it has. I will buy either an IS350 or IS-F next year and right now, I'm leaning towards the IS-F. The only other possibility is an M3, but it depends on if E92 insurance is as much as the E46. And I've never considered the GT-R. I need something to fill my daily driver slot to replace my LS430 and it's going to be a sedan. The GT-R is a performance vehicle with essentially nonfunctional rear seats. That's a totally different class of vehicle and it does not suit my daily driver needs.

The other big factor is that, when it comes down to it, the GT-R is still a Nissan. And the problem is not an image or status issue, it's a service issue. It's the same thing with Honda or Toyota or whoever. One reason I like Lexus vehicles is that I don't get hassles. They're not only reliable to begin with, but I don't have problems with the service or service staff at any Lexus dealership I've ever dealt with. They do a good job with maintenance and I never have problems with customer service.

In Japan, Nissan is selling and servicing GT-R's through their "high performance" centers (I think they opened 200 or something of them just for the GT-R). I would be much more comfortable with that type of setup. In the US, apparently they just selected 1,076 dealers and are having them choose if they want to go through a certification program which will allow them to sell and service GT-Rs. Great. I don't even know how many volunteered.

aco

Whether in Japan or the US, if a dealer wants to sell the GT-R, an existing dealer must meet certain sales requirements, invest in GT-R specific service hardware and have at least one senior mechanic go through specialized training. In Japan, this came to about 10% of the nation's dealers. The expectation for the US is that about 1000 dealers may meet the sales minimums. You are correct, they must accept the cost of service upgrades and mechanic certification, again no different than what happened in Japan.

Tekknikal

actually there are a little over a thousand dealers total.
nissan does not expect 100% participation from there...

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

I read somewhere, dealers that will get the GTR will have to be the dealers that sold a good number of 350Zs, those dealers will get the rights to sell GTRs, and have their service bay and staff trained and upgraded for GTR service

Tekknikal

all dealers have the opportunity, but they must agree to terms including paying for facilities as needed. allocations are based on overall sales and 350z sales in a 75/25 weighting with estimations sent based on full participation

LH1

The GTR is amazing. Can't wait to see it in person.

gengar

Yep, that's what edmunds said and what I was trying to say above. Every dealer gets the option to go through with it, so you'll be dealing with Nissan sales and Nissan service the whole way.

LexFather

Highly doubt it. Only a few know what a GT-R is, serious car nuts, Nissan guys and kids.
The others have the "badge" credentials that some people will buy just to say "yeah, its a BMW M3". Some people buy for that reason alone.

On the road/track, yeah, they are ALL comparable. Seriously though, having gone to a Nissan dealer recently, its a far different experience than buying the other cars.

I think even with the Vette, most have their mind up on it already.