Da Hapa

It will be fine... if you don't mind a car that shifts itself.

As I said, I recognize that a computer can execute faster up and downshifts than I could ever execute. That isn't the point. Driving, to me anyway, is about interaction. I simply prefer a proper manual transmission in sports cars or sport sedans.

josephdoc

I agree with most of your complains but I also want to back up Lexus a bit more.

1. It will be a bit more than $65k since dealers will charge additional bucks on top of the sticker price because it is too hot and the waiting queue is full.

2. Regardless how slow and expensive it is, Toyota never wants to push hard on its engine when designing a car. You can cross compare Nissian, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, and Mitsubish, and easily find out Toyota usually cost more and give out less; it is because Toyota focus on quality.

3. Yes, this car will be way over priced, but if you look into your IS350, I think we over paid on 2IS since G35/M3/350Z are all cheaper and faster. I pick IS350 for Toyota's quality, and I bet you have the same reason.

4. To me, comparing Lexus with Mercedes is apple vs orange. If two cars are not the same, that means they are different. Most models in Merced the quality drop a lot but sales still there because of its branding. I am sure IS-f has a lot of branding effect in its pricing, but I am sure they will sell just as good. As you can see that no dealer can take any interested buyers to the queue, and there will be Lex dealers never going to see one in the pk lot.

Toyota makes good cars and the is-F is surely one of a kind in its family.

My opinions only.

Minderaser

Maybe I am wrong, but everything I have read, and stats I have seen, the IS350 beats the 350Z and G35....G35s cost the same and you get less, and you cannot even class a 350z in with a lexus. You pay more, but you get more. M3 are of course faster, but much more expensive non the less...so bullet 3, in my opinion, has no bearing.

is-fan

Both internet sales managers that I spoke to said they don't add markup to the new models and they are not going to markup the IS-F. I haven't placed a deposit yet, and maybe that was their way of trying to get me to place an order with them. I thought markups were something that Lexus does not allow. One of the dealers I spoke to specifically said that they don't add any expensive add-ons, like the overpriced clearbra, etc. I guess some Lexus dealers may try to do this, but I don't think it's normal, even for a new model with high demand. [I recommend getting the price in writing before placing an order. Without the price and option sheet available, you can't do this, and that's one reason why I'm waiting.]

I really hope you are wrong about the IS-F being overpriced. In my opinion, Lexus needs to price it competitively. Just my .02.

Ken

STRTORPTR

Acceleration can be measured beyond 60mph. If 0-60 was all that mattered, there would be little justification in buying a Corvette over a WRX STi.

I'm sure that past 60mph, the IS-F will draw a thick line between itself and other Lexus models.

josephdoc

I heard that from a friend in the dealer.
Dealers should not make own premium prices beside the sticker but I think they will on this one. The waiting queue is up and estimating of receiving less than 2 units per month per dealer, in California. Plus, is it still on that saying of 1,000 unit per year globalwide production?

I hope that is not true about the 1k production per year. If so, 50 states to share that over 12 months time... and for UK want some units also. I hope I will be wrong about IS-F's over pricing.

Lately, I've noticed Toyota is trying to re-educate consumers about their quality and pricing, and doing something about re-imaging themself to move up in class. I know Scion's no price negociation policy, and I see most of my local Lex/Toy dealers are dressing up their facilities and even building up their own ones.

No one knows for sure, and again, my opinion only.

Ramon

Ummm, not sure where you're getting your info from, but the G35 is not faster and the M3 is not cheaper.

ItsSoFire

my dealer in nj tol me the same thing about markup... lexus doesnt allow dealerships to sell the cars over sticker but that doesnt mean u wont get charged out the *** by the finance guy...

05RollaXRS

The new M3 in early tests has been putting out some extremely impressive numbers (0-60 mph in 4.4 secs in very hot and humid conditions. C&D is claiming it can get down to even 4.2 on a proper test track). The handling needs no praises since it is an M. So the Lexus has quite a lot to live up to. In videos, the V8 car just seems to loves to rev and sounds like a pure bred race car at 8400 rpm.

I can tell you a lot of V8s that make a lot of torque over 7000 rpm.

The Ferrari F430 with a 4.3 Liter V8 makes most of it's torque in the upper band.

BMW has uses the same principles to build their V8 for M3 by taking the V10 from their F1 race car (shared with the M5) and de-stroked it to a V8 (and corresponding displacement). So the engine started out as a race car engine and went from there.

If you look at the power curve BMW has shown on the dyno for the M3, it makes 90% of it's torque (295 ft-lbs) at only 1800 rpm all the way up to the redline. Car and driver claimed the M3 is actually making more midrange torque than even the M5 V10 in the 4000 - 5500 rpm range.

wheel torque = crank torque X total transmission ratio (final drive, gear ratios etc.)

so the transmission can be geared much shorter with a high rpm redline hence amplifying a lot more torque to the wheels at high revolutions.

Edit: (for the one's interested), this will give you an idea of how the new very short stroked and long bored V8 M3 sounds:

Opening scene has the M3 squealing at high rpms through gears that it barely sounds like a V8:

http://www.autojunk.nl/clips/view/132420

josephdoc

Ramon,
My bad. I mean the 335, not the M's.
Also, it is true that most car mags and lining up is350 ($38k+) with G35($31k+), and both manufacturers are claiming their cars peaking out at 306+/- hp.

I just want to state out Lex cost more bucks, and I love cars build by Toys by heart.

MR_F1

please don't believe the hype

05RollaXRS

Hmmm..no hype there. It is officially what BMW has revealed.

M5 V10 is actually derived from BMW's F1 V10 and the M3 V8 is the same engine from the M5 with 2 cylinders less (and corresponding displacement). Both engines are built in BMW's same plant (in Munich) where they build the BMW Sauber F1 engine.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Why are there SAE tech briefs that say something quite different about the M5 engine? And certainly, if they are based on their F-1 program, why are they so unbelievably heavy? 529 lbs isn't exactly a class leader for 500 hp.

linh811

so your main concern is you can't afford it..... performance is competitive with all of its main competitors... If you want a steal, get the 335i and put a vishnu chip, it'll probably outrun the ISF for about 10k less.

TRDFantasy

The 335i is more expensive than an IS350, and it's only a little bit faster. IS350 stock for 0 - 60 has been clocked in at 4.9s not just by mags, but by actual IS owners. Also a lot of IS owners are doing high-to-mid 13s in the 1/4 mile with their cars being totally stock. 335i does 0 - 60 high 4s (one or two tenths quicker than what an IS350 can hit) and they do mid-to-low 13s in the 1/4 mile (two or three tenths quicker than IS350).

G35 and 350Z are cheaper than an IS for a reason. They offer less features and standard equipment than the IS, and also have more reliability issues. Plus, the Z cannot be compared to entry-luxury sedans as it's in a different class. And the Z's interior is pretty bad too.

When you pay for the Lexus, you're also paying for the dealership experience, which is in all honesty at a level above that of Infiniti.

4.4 sec? Did C & D achieve that number? And I highly doubt the M3 can hit 0 - 60 in 4.2. As for handling, a lot of reviews have said the handling of the M3 is not as "raw" as the previous E46 M3. From the looks of things, the brakes of the E92 M3 are also a weak point.

Incorrect. That's not what BMW has revealed. What BMW has officially said is that the M5 engine was developed in parallel with it's F1 V10 program, but they are NOT the same engine. This is similar to how the Lexus UR V8 was developed in parallel with Toyota's F1 V10 engine program, but they are two totally different engines.

Yes the M3, M5 and F1 engines are all built in the Munich plant, but that's where the similarities end.

Then your main concern will be lack of warranty support after you chip the engine, not to mention reliability problems.