View Poll Results: What will be the IS-F final HP number
400-405
8
5.00%
405-410
7
4.38%
410-415
13
8.13%
415-420
25
15.63%
420-425
56
35.00%
Over 425, I was thinking like 600.....
51
31.88%
Voters: 160. You may not vote on this poll
What will be the IS-F hp?
07-17-07, 06:02 PM
#31
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I too believe it; Toyota tends to tune their engines very conservatively, compared to Honda or Nissan. That is why on average a Toyota vehicle is more refined and gets better fuel economy than a comparable Honda or Nissan. I guess it's a good thing for the competition that Toyota does make fuel economy and refinement high priorities. Every time Toyota has made performance a higher priority, they've produced some truly exemplary engines and vehicles. Ironically enough, even the legendary 2JZ is tuned very conservatively at stock output.
There have been reports of prototype 3UR engines running at 550HP+, a prototype 2UR running at 480HP+ in an IS-F mule, and suggestions that the LF-A's motor has been pushed past 600HP in testing, as well as pushed past 10,000 RPM. Looking at the naturally aspirated 2GR in the GT2 IS350s, it reaches peak HP a bit over 8000 RPM, and that peak is over 470HP. The engine is almost identical to a stock 2GR-FSE. It is well known among Toyota insiders and enthusiasts that if allowed to rev higher, a D4-S engine will continue to make HP and torque all the way past 8000 RPM.
I am confident that a 2UR, being almost bone stock and naturally aspirated can easily push past 600HP if given the freedom to rev past 8000 RPM.
To put it in other words: whatever output the IS-F comes out with stock, it will very likely be conservatively tuned.
There have been reports of prototype 3UR engines running at 550HP+, a prototype 2UR running at 480HP+ in an IS-F mule, and suggestions that the LF-A's motor has been pushed past 600HP in testing, as well as pushed past 10,000 RPM. Looking at the naturally aspirated 2GR in the GT2 IS350s, it reaches peak HP a bit over 8000 RPM, and that peak is over 470HP. The engine is almost identical to a stock 2GR-FSE. It is well known among Toyota insiders and enthusiasts that if allowed to rev higher, a D4-S engine will continue to make HP and torque all the way past 8000 RPM.
I am confident that a 2UR, being almost bone stock and naturally aspirated can easily push past 600HP if given the freedom to rev past 8000 RPM.
To put it in other words: whatever output the IS-F comes out with stock, it will very likely be conservatively tuned.
07-17-07, 07:28 PM
#32
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I'm still pretty convinced Toyota typically builds an engine with twice the stock output, tests it extensively for durability and performance, then detunes it to half the power they made in development. I've seen far too many Toyota engines fully capable of supporting twice their stock output with few if any changes to the long block. Just one of the reasons I buy their stuff!
Also, FWIW, the IS350 makes 51 hp per cylinder. If we just added two cylinders with no other changes we'd get 408 hp. But that engine would only be 4608cc. If they went +4mm on the bore, it would be 5009cc. Dead on 5 litres. The alternative would be to keep the same bore but add 7mm of high rpm killing stroke for 4997cc. Stroking it will drop the 20 m/sec red line to 6660 rpm, keeping the 2GR stroke puts redline at a familiar 7500 rpm exactly. Oh, yeah, the IS350 has a lot more rpm capability than we can use with the OEM rev limiter. I think they're concerned about the valve train though, not mean piston speed.
Also, FWIW, the IS350 makes 51 hp per cylinder. If we just added two cylinders with no other changes we'd get 408 hp. But that engine would only be 4608cc. If they went +4mm on the bore, it would be 5009cc. Dead on 5 litres. The alternative would be to keep the same bore but add 7mm of high rpm killing stroke for 4997cc. Stroking it will drop the 20 m/sec red line to 6660 rpm, keeping the 2GR stroke puts redline at a familiar 7500 rpm exactly. Oh, yeah, the IS350 has a lot more rpm capability than we can use with the OEM rev limiter. I think they're concerned about the valve train though, not mean piston speed.
07-17-07, 07:31 PM
#33
Lexus Connoisseur
07-17-07, 08:58 PM
#34
I think the IS-F will have higher specific output than the 3.5. In addition, the exhaust note sounds less restrictive. So, higher RPM, tuned for more performance, and less restrictive... Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I'm hoping for over 450.
07-17-07, 09:34 PM
#36
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BTW, how often do you extract the wrong tooth?
07-17-07, 09:43 PM
#37
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I too believe it; Toyota tends to tune their engines very conservatively, compared to Honda or Nissan. That is why on average a Toyota vehicle is more refined and gets better fuel economy than a comparable Honda or Nissan. I guess it's a good thing for the competition that Toyota does make fuel economy and refinement high priorities. Every time Toyota has made performance a higher priority, they've produced some truly exemplary engines and vehicles. Ironically enough, even the legendary 2JZ is tuned very conservatively at stock output.
There have been reports of prototype 3UR engines running at 550HP+, a prototype 2UR running at 480HP+ in an IS-F mule, and suggestions that the LF-A's motor has been pushed past 600HP in testing, as well as pushed past 10,000 RPM. Looking at the naturally aspirated 2GR in the GT2 IS350s, it reaches peak HP a bit over 8000 RPM, and that peak is over 470HP. The engine is almost identical to a stock 2GR-FSE. It is well known among Toyota insiders and enthusiasts that if allowed to rev higher, a D4-S engine will continue to make HP and torque all the way past 8000 RPM.
I am confident that a 2UR, being almost bone stock and naturally aspirated can easily push past 600HP if given the freedom to rev past 8000 RPM.
To put it in other words: whatever output the IS-F comes out with stock, it will very likely be conservatively tuned.
There have been reports of prototype 3UR engines running at 550HP+, a prototype 2UR running at 480HP+ in an IS-F mule, and suggestions that the LF-A's motor has been pushed past 600HP in testing, as well as pushed past 10,000 RPM. Looking at the naturally aspirated 2GR in the GT2 IS350s, it reaches peak HP a bit over 8000 RPM, and that peak is over 470HP. The engine is almost identical to a stock 2GR-FSE. It is well known among Toyota insiders and enthusiasts that if allowed to rev higher, a D4-S engine will continue to make HP and torque all the way past 8000 RPM.
I am confident that a 2UR, being almost bone stock and naturally aspirated can easily push past 600HP if given the freedom to rev past 8000 RPM.
To put it in other words: whatever output the IS-F comes out with stock, it will very likely be conservatively tuned.
speculation or fact? Not doubting you or anything, I'm just curious and would really like to know if the 2GR is that potent in NA form.
Also, any info on how well the bottom end holds up to (and how well this high compression engine responds to) boost?
07-17-07, 09:58 PM
#38
Tech Info Resource
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Botom End is the least of our worries
And here's why. If the 2UR is anything like the 2GR/4GR, there is little to fear.
07-18-07, 01:21 PM
#39
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Yes. Lexus Europe has explicitly stated that the engine code is 2UR-GSE. The PR thread from the Geneva Auto Show can be found here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...IS-F+europe+PR
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...IS-F+europe+PR
07-18-07, 03:02 PM
#40
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Go to www.teamlexus.com/default.html and click on "car". It actually lists the specs at 470+ HP and 350+ lb-ft. The Lexus Quarterly Magazine also had some info on the GT2 cars, but it looks like Lexus.com has taken down that info.
07-18-07, 03:04 PM
#41
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07-18-07, 04:38 PM
#42
Lexus Champion
My guess is 435, but I'm hoping for 450.
It would be nice for Lexus to really make a statement and set the bar
for this category instead of being behind the eight-ball.
As for the claims of a 4.8 second 0-60 time? Phoey!
The IS 350 does it in... what? 5.2, 5.1 seconds? I think the IS-F will be 4.4 or 4.5 seconds.
We have guys here on the board running the IS350 in the low 13s (13.3?).
The V8 should be 1/2 second faster without breaking a sweat.
The IS-F should be a beast!
It would be nice for Lexus to really make a statement and set the bar
for this category instead of being behind the eight-ball.
As for the claims of a 4.8 second 0-60 time? Phoey!
The IS 350 does it in... what? 5.2, 5.1 seconds? I think the IS-F will be 4.4 or 4.5 seconds.
We have guys here on the board running the IS350 in the low 13s (13.3?).
The V8 should be 1/2 second faster without breaking a sweat.
The IS-F should be a beast!
07-18-07, 06:56 PM
#43
Tech Info Resource
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Bad news for the high rpm lovers. The 2UR-FSE in the LS600h has the following specs: 94.0 × 89.5 (3.70 × 3.52) bore & stroke.
So, instead of boring the engine or boring and stroking, they just stroked it out to 4969cc and called it good enough to be 5 liters.
The block does have 6 bolt mains just like the 2GR series, and there is a very complete explanation of VVTi-E on the TIS website in the new car features book. Apparently Toyco have discovered that using oil pressure to operate VVTi is not nearly as reliable as using an electric motor that works very similarly to the motor in the throttlebody.
There's a lot more, but without a TIS subscription, well,... it would take a long time to retype it all...
What will be really interesting will be checking the part numbers for the 2GR-FSE, 2UR-FSE and 2UR-GSE pistons. If they are all the same, well, no big deal, but if they are different, we know they're all 94mm bore, but the compression ratios could be different and might be what we'd need to lower compression in the 2GR for boost. Food for thought anyway.
So, instead of boring the engine or boring and stroking, they just stroked it out to 4969cc and called it good enough to be 5 liters.
The block does have 6 bolt mains just like the 2GR series, and there is a very complete explanation of VVTi-E on the TIS website in the new car features book. Apparently Toyco have discovered that using oil pressure to operate VVTi is not nearly as reliable as using an electric motor that works very similarly to the motor in the throttlebody.
There's a lot more, but without a TIS subscription, well,... it would take a long time to retype it all...
What will be really interesting will be checking the part numbers for the 2GR-FSE, 2UR-FSE and 2UR-GSE pistons. If they are all the same, well, no big deal, but if they are different, we know they're all 94mm bore, but the compression ratios could be different and might be what we'd need to lower compression in the 2GR for boost. Food for thought anyway.
07-18-07, 07:07 PM
#44
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Well; I don't plan to take the IS-F on Tracks..... so i don't car in 5-25+ HP for my daily driving... ( So much for just trying to be different from the most common car in Miami, the 2nd Gen IS... LoL )
07-18-07, 07:09 PM
#45
Tech Info Resource
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After all the TSIBs for VVTi oil control valves failing, and another TSIB for the 4GR-FSE to replace the VVTi unit on two of the four cams, I'd say they're not pleased with the reliability of the oil controlled VVTi system.