Gojirra99

. . . but don't forget using a bigger engine will make the car heavier too, so that's not limited to just the adding of the hybrid motor.
For example, a SL600 has a curb weight of 4429 lb. compared to the SL500's 4065 lb., that's a difference of 364 lb., although part of the difference maybe due to more standard options in the SL600, but the same is true for the RX400h too, which is loaded. You will find similar weight differences between models with larger engine displacements & those with lower in other vehicles as well.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

can't agree more, chris. i think 50k is a good price to shoot for on the is460.

ktiger

If Lexus goes after the M3 crowd they better forget about the nice cushy stuff. This is the performance league. I own a M5 and I haven't met an M owner yet the boasted about the interior of the car. I'm okay with a beautiful interior, that's why my wife drive the LX 470 but when it came to my "fun to drive" car I never really gave much thought to the interior. I was totally focused on how the car drove.

50k for a nice interior but a 4 on the driving scale = no sale. Lexus need to careful how they market such a car.

Gojirra99

They can keep the price of a V8 IS relatively low by not loading it with options as standard which they tend to do with the "flagship model". Having less options does not necessarily make the interior less nice anyway.

ktiger

My point is that Lexus vehicles are known for their beautiful interiors and silky smooth ride not performance. Just read all the reviews on the new GS everyone agree that they got it right inside the car but when it comes to driving the Infiniti M and 5 series beat it out every time.

Lexus should have no trouble making the interior beautiful, that's what they do but on this car their primary focus should be on performance.

Gojirra99

I think any IS should be focused on performance & handling more than cushy stuff, they already have the ES for that which is selling very well for them.
Even the current IS300 is a very good driver's car that rides rough, but handles very well, all it lacks is power compared to the competitors. What I'm most interested is how well the new IS can balance ride comfort & good handling compared to the 3 series, no one else can achieve that balance better than BMW so far. But they too have to sacrifice some ride comfort for all-out performance & handling for the M3. To make a M3 competitor, they should go the same direction as well.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

I can mostly agree. It has been said that the interior in my NSX is very out dated and minimalistic (SP?). However, the drive is increadible and I by far rather drive it than my Lexus anyday. Still though, I wish it had factory navigation, maybe a more updated gauge cluster and some other current options such as 1 touch roll down widoes not only for the driver, but for the passanger as well and also 1 touch roll up. Simple things like that. In the case of the M3, that was a car I considered before making the NSX purchase. The problem is I couldn't bring myself to pay $55-$60K for that car loaded the way I wanted it when I could get a used NSX for mid $30K range. I would love to drive a bare bones M3, but I rather live with one that had the full adjustable seats, Alcantera steering wheel, HK sound system, navigation, sunroof, and such. I think if I could afford it, I more than likely would get a loaded M3. Same with this potential IS460 if it indeed is an M3 class. In todays market and time, I want it all. Not only do I want a small compact sports car, but I want the nice interior, the gadgets, and have it still be a drivers car. In the end though that price is still importent. If the IS460 goes well into the mid to upper $50K range, I'd rather spend my money on a used LS430 UL and a used NSX or M3. The way I look at cars like the M3, C32 AMG, maybe this IS460 are hybrid type cars. These are the cars you buy when you for one reason or anoyther can't have a dedicated sports car along with your daily driver. The ultimate would be to have the real sports car and a daily driver. The M3 and cars like it fulfill both roles. It will be the top at neither, but will offer 8/10th of each. Therefore I personally feel it not only needs to drive well, but it also needs to have the comfort and luxury items and feel as a nice daily driver. You are right though, people in the market for an M3 type car will probably pass it over if it doesn't drive right no matter how nice the interior is. That is why I still think the IS350 is the right car and forget the V8 and just go with a hybrid.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

I agree. Whatever engine they put in the new IS not only do I still want the nice feel, but the performance and drivability feel of the car better be right. This is where Lexus really needs to focus. We already know they can build the interior, but we really don't know if they can make a drivers car yet. We know they can make a performance car with the Supra, but the Supra itself really isn't a drivers car in the same way as BMW's M cars or NSX or Corvette's are. We know they can make a car handle fairly well with the old IS, but IMHO it is still not a drivers car. The feel is just not the same. So I do agree with you, they really need to focus and try hard to get the IS to feel right.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

For me, being a drivers car is not only about handling and performance but its feel. Heck, truthfully, I think even the weak Mazda Miata can be considered a true drivers car. It is the feel and feedback you get from the car. The feeling where you are connected to the car and it is sending feedback directly to your brain. The problem with Lexus thus car isn't the handling or power, but the feel. Mostly due to the steering. The steering just doesn't give you the feedback that you want. They are getting better, but still not there. BMW has had it right for decades, so Lexus really needs to proove itself on that one aspect. Lexus will also need to work on a manual tranmission. Not even the Supra manual or SC300 manual has any real feel to it. Honda has it right here even more so than BMW IMHO.

ktiger

Personally I think the IS along with all of it's competitors are too small for my taste, if Lexus get this one right I'll buy it for a daily driver. I will never give up my '01 M5.

Gojirra99

I agree with you about the steering feel & feedback with the BMW that I forget to mention in my last post, yes it's like it's an extension of your wrist It's does not feel the same with my G35c neither, but I picked it over the 330ci for other reasons I' ve mentioned here before, plus the fact that my gf had a 330 that I' ve driven a lot already.

I also agree that Honda makes the best manual transmissions in the world I' ve had 3 of them before, as I' ve just posted this morning on the GM-Honda thread in Car Chat, but I have yet to have driven the ultimate Honda the NSX

rominl

iTrader: (4)

hahh that's why you have your m5 right?

i totally understand what you mean, and i agree with you. lexus can put up something a lot more sporty as the "competition" level car

LexFather

I agree that with most performance cars, interiors are not often the focus point (though, IMO, the E39 M5 and NSX have pretty solid interiors, even today) but I think LEXUS needs to focus on its interpretation of a high-performance car, which would include more LUXURY than most.

Even with a V-8, I don't fully expect the IS 460 to drive like a M3 or a Ferrari. I expect it to drive still like a Lexus but with a harder edge. THey would sell in droves, look at AMG cars, all automatic and they sell like nuts with more luxury than a M car.

It would be nice to see Lexus go ***** OUT but it won't happen. That is what other car makers do. Hell even in America, we don't get the M3 CSL, the ***** OUT M3. We dont' get the NSX-R.

Gojirra99

I agree that if an IS460/500 is to become a reality, it will probably appeal more to AMG type buyers more than the M type driver's car buyers.

ktiger

I too agree that if we are comparing the IS460 against the C55 then we have apples to apples.