So who here is trading their IS for the new Supra? It's arrived
01-15-19, 08:39 AM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
"Tada-san (Toyota's chief engineer) added that he was “very satisfied” with the performance of the 2020 Supra’s standard eight-speed automatic. “It is completely different from any other automatic transmission that has been released."
01-15-19, 09:31 AM
#47
Pole Position
Yeah they had already said they might do a manual tranny. I’m sure they will considering so many people are asking for it.
01-15-19, 09:40 AM
#48
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
01-15-19, 09:42 AM
#49
Not at the point in my life where I can take care of 2 vehicles.
As for a straight up trade, I'd have to prolly stick to my IS for the extra interior space and trunk space :/
As for a straight up trade, I'd have to prolly stick to my IS for the extra interior space and trunk space :/
01-15-19, 11:22 AM
#52
Pole Position
i imagine the average customer in the US to be somewhat older given the 50k price and want automatics. The manual would certainly reduce the performance times. I'm all for options though. I think honestly if I bought this car I'd want the automatic. The ZF is just so fast. Plus the risk of a single mis shift blowing a $15,000 engine doesn't sit too well for me. Usually you'd accept the risk cause the manual made the car perform better but that isn't the case today.
01-15-19, 01:37 PM
#54
Intermediate
RC-F over this any day.
Actually, I'd lease the Supra if I was into leasing cars, but buying it is completely out of the question. It has a BMW powertrain, that thing will be burning oil when the arc-sprayed cylinder liners wear out, the oil pan gaskets will fall apart, water pumps will blow up, 'dedicated heat management module' will start acting up and then the VANOS will go and you'll have to pull the whole engine to fix it.
Actually, I'd lease the Supra if I was into leasing cars, but buying it is completely out of the question. It has a BMW powertrain, that thing will be burning oil when the arc-sprayed cylinder liners wear out, the oil pan gaskets will fall apart, water pumps will blow up, 'dedicated heat management module' will start acting up and then the VANOS will go and you'll have to pull the whole engine to fix it.
01-15-19, 01:56 PM
#55
It has a BMW powertrain, that thing will be burning oil when the arc-sprayed cylinder liners wear out, the oil pan gaskets will fall apart, water pumps will blow up, 'dedicated heat management module' will start acting up and then the VANOS will go and you'll have to pull the whole engine to fix it.
01-16-19, 06:47 AM
#56
Intermediate
In some cases it's not even superior technology, it's just straight up 'German Engineering', like having two ways to control a throttle body - one way being that Valvetronic ***** and an actual, real throttle body. I mean, what could go wrong? /s
01-16-19, 07:00 AM
#57
The problem with this car is obvious, apparently to everyone except Toyota; they dropped their history in favor of money.
If this car had come under a different name from a start-up company without the capital to make the entire car themselves it would be received with much fanfare.
But that's not the case. Toyota is a GIANT of the auto-industry, and have the means to produce anything they want.
So what we had was an iconic Japanese car with an even MORE iconic engine whose idea has always been Grand Touring faster than anyone. And it worked. It got them to the party, and more. It recently showed a $60,000 new car sell for $120,000 as a used car.
And now what we're going to have is a completely different car with the beating heart of a different automaker.
It's a car, but not a Supra.
Open letter to Toyota: stick to what got you to the party.
If this car had come under a different name from a start-up company without the capital to make the entire car themselves it would be received with much fanfare.
But that's not the case. Toyota is a GIANT of the auto-industry, and have the means to produce anything they want.
So what we had was an iconic Japanese car with an even MORE iconic engine whose idea has always been Grand Touring faster than anyone. And it worked. It got them to the party, and more. It recently showed a $60,000 new car sell for $120,000 as a used car.
And now what we're going to have is a completely different car with the beating heart of a different automaker.
It's a car, but not a Supra.
Open letter to Toyota: stick to what got you to the party.
01-16-19, 08:00 AM
#58
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
^^ Eh that's not really the case with BMW's straight sixes. That's more the V8s. The I6s are refined as *****. I come from the E46 world and all the straight sixes on that forum are deep into the six figure territory. 300-400k. They are, like the 2J, overbuilt as *****. The B58 is no exception.
There is a reason Toyota didn't develop a straight six for this car. That takes millions of dollars and multiple generations to get it to a decent place. Just look at the 8AR. Fell flat on its face. Thirsty and slow. And has regular boost regulator failures. And that's fine. That's what happens when you start playing with the big boys in the modern era.
This idea that your car has to have its heart made by the guys that wear your team's logo is ridiculous. It's sports team logic. It's bro logic. It's tribal. It's close minded. Just again, be reminded, who your guys chose for a little dose of reality.
Also for those that complain about two parts doing the job of one part, valvetronic, etc., keep in mind those technologies are part of the reason BMW engines are so brilliantly responsive (and efficient) and the receive of automotive praise the world over for decades. That forces other automakers to innovate and compete and overall brings the industry to a better place faster. Nothing good happens if you stay stagnant recycling old technology.
The things you enjoy today are because someone stepped up to the plate and innovated.
There is a reason Toyota didn't develop a straight six for this car. That takes millions of dollars and multiple generations to get it to a decent place. Just look at the 8AR. Fell flat on its face. Thirsty and slow. And has regular boost regulator failures. And that's fine. That's what happens when you start playing with the big boys in the modern era.
This idea that your car has to have its heart made by the guys that wear your team's logo is ridiculous. It's sports team logic. It's bro logic. It's tribal. It's close minded. Just again, be reminded, who your guys chose for a little dose of reality.
Also for those that complain about two parts doing the job of one part, valvetronic, etc., keep in mind those technologies are part of the reason BMW engines are so brilliantly responsive (and efficient) and the receive of automotive praise the world over for decades. That forces other automakers to innovate and compete and overall brings the industry to a better place faster. Nothing good happens if you stay stagnant recycling old technology.
The things you enjoy today are because someone stepped up to the plate and innovated.
01-16-19, 08:33 AM
#59
^^ Eh that's not really the case with BMW's straight sixes. That's more the V8s. The I6s are refined as *****. I come from the E46 world and all the straight sixes on that forum are deep into the six figure territory. 300-400k. They are, like the 2J, overbuilt as *****. The B58 is no exception.
The new car may be fantastic, but it's NOT a Supra because it goes against the IDEA of the original Supra line.
Make the car a little larger, a little more plush, and give it a 420 hp Toyota engine that's an evolution of the 2JZ (with the ability to reliably bolt-on 1000 hp) and you'd have the true successor worthy of the name Supra.
01-16-19, 08:55 AM
#60
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Not saying you in particular but I just get tired of this Japanese car fan almost gang-member like mentality of my side vs your side type of attitude. Like there's just this automatic disrespect because one "side" happens to be from Germany. And the other side isn't wearing your colors. Like as if it's supposed to be that way. You don't really see women acting this way. To me it's just testosterone-laced machismo masquerading as genuine car enthusiasm. I think it's better for everyone if we can learn to accept and respect and even praise the merits of all cars regardless of who made them. A good product is a good product. All automakers contribute to the overall advancement we have today in one way or another. There's no right side.
If Toyota could revive the old 2JZ-GTE engine plans with a few simple cheap updates, they would've done so. The fact is those engines would not compete today. They are legendary engines but if you are objective about it, they would not compete today. Real life, real target demo isn't a drag strip. The old engines can propel a car forward quite quickly but there's more to it than straight up dyno #s and emissions. All those suppliers would have to reboot their tooling, pass validation, etc etc. (mountain of etcs) Toyota would have to start from scratch. Sports cars are a shrinking market so collaboration rather than going at it alone makes total sense when a business case has to be brought to the board.
If Toyota could revive the old 2JZ-GTE engine plans with a few simple cheap updates, they would've done so. The fact is those engines would not compete today. They are legendary engines but if you are objective about it, they would not compete today. Real life, real target demo isn't a drag strip. The old engines can propel a car forward quite quickly but there's more to it than straight up dyno #s and emissions. All those suppliers would have to reboot their tooling, pass validation, etc etc. (mountain of etcs) Toyota would have to start from scratch. Sports cars are a shrinking market so collaboration rather than going at it alone makes total sense when a business case has to be brought to the board.