MacroZed

I hear ya. You do make a valid point.

It's the same reasoning that makes me want to buy a later production E46 (1999-2005 3-series for the non-BMW people) with a NA straight 6. I'd buy one of those in a heartbeat if it was babied and garaged its entire life.

And also, I'm with you on the new 3-series back end. I like it. But then again, I'm a BMW guy...I even like some of the Bangle-butt BMW rear ends.

Burrcold

Wouldn't that make you NOT a BMW guy if you actually like the Bangle butt era? lol

MacroZed

Negative. I thought the Bangle-designed Z4 were just plain gorgeous. I miss mine every day.

Gsr3is

I remember reading a while ago that the X5 and 7 series were the worst cars to own along with range rover and infiniti qx80 due to maintenance issues. With any BMW, keeping the car beyond 6 yrs is not an ideal option unless you are not scared putting your hand under the engine cover. Anyways, coming back to answer OP, you should try driving them back to back at a carmax or someplace and judge by yourself. You already know which car you will spend more money on maintenance. With either car, drive them for atleast 15-20 miles in varying types of roads (highway, neighborhoor road etc).

ZISF

In no way does it represent anything close or similar to the Lexus rear end, you take that back. Don't disgrace our cars gorgeous styling with something that looks more similar to a honda accord. Masterful?... its a rectangle with sexy German styling, very square like LOL . I've seen sexier lines on a football field, like the cheerleading line. Also, 62K in the USA, 100K for us Canadians.



Couldn't agree with you more. I consider the BMW 3series the honda civic of Germany.

doctor80

Can you explain m what went wrong with the car?
2012 is relatively newish car.
Just curious to know.

Sasnuke

A couple of notes on this...and I'm not agreeing or disagreeing.

Toyota has built vehicles since the mid-80's that have had turbos (Celica, MR2, Supra), all the way up to the last twin turbo Supra in 1998.
Among that decade and a half, they also had vehicles with Superchargers...MR2 and Previa.
20 years ago Toyota wasn't trying to compete with BMW...at that time Lexus only had 4 models if I count correctly (LS, ES, SC, and GS). The brand was just taking off, especially when they introduced the GS400 in the late 90's.
You will definitely find powertrain and tech that is older in the Toyota/Lexus/Scion lines, and the Toyota philosophy is to engineer, test, and perfect this components before putting them to market...therefore making them superior in quality and reliability than the other manufacturers, like BMW, that just stuff them into the vehicle and hope it works. Nothing is perfect, but certainly Toyota strives to make it as perfect as they can...can't really say the Germans do with the track record of Audi, MB, and BMW...or even VW.
Toyota has also been first to market with a lot of automotive innovations that work, and work well...1998 Prius, or for us in NA, the 2001 Prius.

Last but not least, it's probably not widely known that BMW, in the late 90's bought a 1996 Toyota Camry to reverse engineer it.
The goal was to discover why the vehicle was as good as it was.
Up to 1996, and even years after, the 1996 Toyota Camry remains, and will always remain, one of the most over engineered vehicles of it's time.
IMO...no point giving me a bunch of buttons, bells, and whistles of half of them are not gonna work, or give me problems constantly.

I hope Toyota/Lexus never competes with BMW, MB, or Audi...I'd rather they stand alone with their own reputation, which will always set them apart from the rest of the field.

E46CT

I wonder if he had the twin turbo V8. Bmw's turbo V8s of the era (particularly 12/13) were NOTORIOUS for bad engineering. they went back to the drawing board and completely redesigned the V8 for the 14 models cause it was so bad. Valve steam seals, coolant pipe leaks, vanos problems etc. The redesigned V8 was stout AF. It was designed as a "Tu" or technical update engine model.

all the I6s including the turbo ones are pretty stout. push 800 -1000 whp on the stock insides. very very beefy and well done engine.

you just get usual german oil leaks. cause when you start to play with turbos you get a lot more parts and plumbing. same with any car when you introduce turbos.

EZZ

To the OP, have you driven the cars back to back? The F30 generation 3 series handles worse than the IS350 F-sport. I drove the F30 back to back and found the IS350 to be better in steering feel and handling. Most 3rd party reviewers say the same. The new G20 will be better though so you should definitely wait for those if you are going to BMW. If i were buying today though, my money would go to an S4. I'd also test drive the Genesis G70. I'm thinking going a little smaller even and geting the RS3.

doctor80

No not yet.
Did you test drive the 328 or the 320?
Per my understanding these are two completely different vehicles.

arentz07

Yeah I forgot to mention, winter is fun in the IS 300 AWD. It drives really nicely in the snow. Very driftable. Can't speak to that on the BMW, might also be really good for all I know.

MacroZed

Electric water pump / thermostat / overflow tank. Went out at 61k miles. $550 in parts, 6 hours in my labor.
Valve cover gaskets. Leaked like a sieve. $45 for the gasket, 6 hours labor.
Tension struts....causes instability under braking, much like the 3IS LCA bushings. $200 plus an hour of my time.
60K mile tune up. Plugs, fluid change. About $200, plus 5 hours labor.

I was about to do the transmission service, but I decided to part ways with this monster. I bought the parts ($350), but never did the work. That X5 is someone else's problem now.

Don't get me wrong....I understand that things break. And some things need tended to before they break. But all of the above took place between March - July this year.
Enough is (and was) enough.

I do miss the 300hp/300tq though. That thing drove really well too, for a big SUV.

JBison73

That's funny, I had a 2010 Mazda 3 as well. My transmission went in March and I decided to go with a Lexus Is 300 AWD. I had been thinking about getting a Lexus next year but once this happened I just decided to take the plunge early. Anyway, I've never once driven a BMW, but I can say I love the IS 300 and would recommend it for anyone thinking about it. Great fun car with some power (all you'll need for every day driving) and incredibly reliable. Good luck with your decision

E46CT

Ah you had N54/N55? Electric water pump. Yeah it happens. Usually goes beyond 100k though. But yeah they're expensive.

Thrust arms.. yep those go around that time. As would our CABs. But the thrust arms have a lot more aluminum in them. Valve cover gasket.. understandble. Only one gasket right. Did the N54 get more complex than earlier M54s? The n54 is heavily based on the M54. in my experience that was a 1 hour job. first time. i can do them in 25-30 min now. Spark plugs while you're in there. These things can theoretically go (and do) on Lexus too. Our cars use a manual water pump for now but I can see in the future lexus moving to electric. Enjoy our somewhat analog powertrains for now. things won't be so rosy in the future!

this is why i like to lease my cars now. 30k miles and done. onto the next one. someone else's problem!

EZZ

I test drove the 335 back to back with the IS350 F-sport. The 335 was loaded with the M package and stickered around $60k. The handling still wasn't great and thought the IS was better. My buddies 340 is a bit better but generally, the F30 chassis is a disappointment.