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Was not factoring packaging differences as assuming the same but the drive train.
Anyways, back to the topic. I do think that Lexus Canada should allow special ordering to happen again so the customer could order what they want like they did at one point. Not sure if other manufactures in Canada also are doing this unless anyone can confirm.
Finally someone that agrees with putting a GOOD set of snow tires will do the job. And it seems that everybody forgets that Honda Civic's and Toyota Corolla's are FWD... they're doing just fine in the winter lol
I've said it numerous times, AWD is something they planted in people's minds as a MUST have for winter... Invest in a proper set of tires (i.e.: Nokian Hakkapeliitta) and enjoy your fuel savings with RWD
And yes, we do have the law in Quebec, but guess what, a lot of people cheap out and purchase the crappiest winter tire possible. If it has the snow flake on it, it's legal. That's all they care for. Funny enough, they put crap tires on the AWD cars and expect it to work fine in the winter...
Back to the topic, I'll ask my dealer if they can bring the car in for me, the next time I get one, since the 350 RWD would be next on the list, but it's AWD only over here
On a side note, the only RWD that we can get with the F Sport trim is the IS 200T.
RWD in winter is brutal, even with good snow's. last resort only. I've pushed enough FR-S's with winter's up 1% inclines to know i would never dare drive one in a hilly area. Bigger RWD cars with winter's do OK at best. FWD is much better in snow than RWD. AWD is so much less stressful to drive then either....
Do note, if you do import a US car, the temperature display will be in Fahrenheit and there is not a way to change it to Celsius, unless you are willing to spend the money to change the A/C ECU with the Canadian version (moderator Jeff Lange can confirm), which would not make it cost effective besides possible warranty implications. This is something that Lexus/Toyota should do and make it changeable like some other manufactures allow.
Fun fact: The SI system US uses is based on the metric system, so why is US converting something unnecessarily?
In the 3is you can change the speed form MPH to KM in the settings, I do it all the time when i head across the border so that shouldn't be an issue for those looking to import. I don't think they will care about temperature.
RWD is fine in the winter anyways and Jeff drives in it with his IS since he resides in Calgary.
do I mean AWD what? RWD doesn't cost less. It's simple math, and someone already did it above. By the time you factor in the GST and the dollar conversion, the travel cost to get the car, etc. It wipes out any possible savings and also makes it even more expensive than just buying an AWD here in Canada.
I really hate the ignorance of people saying that RWD is "fine" in the winter. Yes you can survive in the winter with RWD. I've also done it in a lot of cars in the same area Jeff lives. But if you think for one second that AWD doesnt offer significant benefits in winter over RWD then you're out of your mind. My AWD with the ****ty all season tires from dealer, is like night and day compared to driving my RWD IS with dedicated snow tires. And I used to drive my 470hp RWD SRT8 in the winter, so I'm well aware how to drive a RWD car in the winter.
Regardless of whether RWD is liveable in the winter or not. What benefit does it offer in the summer over AWD? Other than a tiny bit of fuel mileage? You can argue the handling dynamics are better in a RWD, which is correct. However, what public road are you driving a DD Lexus around fast enough to feel or care about that?
I see no advantages to getting a RWD daily driver that warrant paying 10k more for it.
In the 3is you can change the speed form MPH to KM in the settings, I do it all the time when i head across the border so that shouldn't be an issue for those looking to import. I don't think they will care about temperature.
Yes, I know since I sat and driven both US and Canadian vehicles. They also allow to change the mileage readings between MPG, Imperial MPG and L/100km and some other (I forgot what it is). Not having the temperature is sort of a odd thing because they should also make it available.
Originally Posted by Viktimize
do I mean AWD what? RWD doesn't cost less. It's simple math, and someone already did it above. By the time you factor in the GST and the dollar conversion, the travel cost to get the car, etc. It wipes out any possible savings and also makes it even more expensive than just buying an AWD here in Canada.
I really hate the ignorance of people saying that RWD is "fine" in the winter. Yes you can survive in the winter with RWD. I've also done it in a lot of cars in the same area Jeff lives. But if you think for one second that AWD doesnt offer significant benefits in winter over RWD then you're out of your mind. My AWD with the ****ty all season tires from dealer, is like night and day compared to driving my RWD IS with dedicated snow tires. And I used to drive my 470hp RWD SRT8 in the winter, so I'm well aware how to drive a RWD car in the winter.
Regardless of whether RWD is liveable in the winter or not. What benefit does it offer in the summer over AWD? Other than a tiny bit of fuel mileage? You can argue the handling dynamics are better in a RWD, which is correct. However, what public road are you driving a DD Lexus around fast enough to feel or care about that?
I see no advantages to getting a RWD daily driver that warrant paying 10k more for it.
The context of what I was saying is if the same car/package is offered locally (no import), and the only difference is the drivetrain, the AWD will cost more. Otherwise, yes, the import, currency conversion and everything else and possible luxury tax will make it more expensive. If it were my case, I can get either US or Canadian vehicle without a problem.
If one was driving on graded roads greater than 10% grade most of the time, absolutely I agree with AWD. The fuel mileage can be 2-3 MPG more but it seemed to be worse with the winter blended fuel when I had my AWD IS250 with all seasons before I went to F-Sport IS250 RWD and did the dedicated tire setup. I had no issues driving in both vehicles.
Yes, I know since I sat and driven both US and Canadian vehicles. They also allow to change the mileage readings between MPG, Imperial MPG and L/100km and some other (I forgot what it is). Not having the temperature is sort of a odd thing because they should also make it available.
The context of what I was saying is if the same car/package is offered locally (no import), and the only difference is the drivetrain, the AWD will cost more. Otherwise, yes, the import, currency conversion and everything else and possible luxury tax will make it more expensive. If it were my case, I can get either US or Canadian vehicle without a problem.
If one was driving on graded roads greater than 10% grade most of the time, absolutely I agree with AWD. The fuel mileage can be 2-3 MPG more but it seemed to be worse with the winter blended fuel when I had my AWD IS250 with all seasons before I went to F-Sport IS250 RWD and did the dedicated tire setup. Had no issues driving in both of the vehicles.
in a theoretical world where the cars were same same price then it boils down to personal preference.
The grade of the road is irrelevant. You can't change the laws of physics. As mentioned, yes you can make do with RWD in winter, but the question is why would you want to? Personally I don't enjoy feathering the throttle trying to modulate tire spin and get going while everyone with AWD behind me is waiting for me to get going. I'd rather just get to my destination with minimal frustration. To each their own. If you can only afford one car, and you do a lot of track racing in the summer, then it might make sense to compromise winter traction so you can drive a more enjoyable car on the track in the summer.
There is some truth to it, and Kurtz when he used to be here and explained it a lot better. That goes without saying one cannot go beyond the laws of physics.
For me, I mainly use it for general street use and used to feathering in winters as I did it to all drive trains (I had a Camry too). Of course I get get poked fun at by my co-worker asking me why didn't I get that F (ISF when it was out at the time) when he knows I have the money to buy one!
RWD in winter is brutal, even with good snow's. last resort only. I've pushed enough FR-S's with winter's up 1% inclines to know i would never dare drive one in a hilly area. Bigger RWD cars with winter's do OK at best. FWD is much better in snow than RWD. AWD is so much less stressful to drive then either....
My sister drove her FR-S in the winter and we have it worse than in Ontario. What snow tire did you have? And more importantly, were they finished lol
Don't be offended, but it's comment like yours that drive people away from RWD... and the rest of us pay for it, since we don't want AWD cars.
Viktimize sounds like you need a proper set of winter tires, I haven't had to feather a throttle at all in the RWD. Step on it and it goes.
For those wondering what a GOOD winter tire is, this is it.
My sister drove her FR-S in the winter and we have it worse than in Ontario. What snow tire did you have? And more importantly, were they finished lol
Don't be offended, but it's comment like yours that drive people away from RWD... and the rest of us pay for it, since we don't want AWD cars.
Viktimize sounds like you need a proper set of winter tires, I haven't had to feather a throttle at all in the RWD. Step on it and it goes.
For those wondering what a GOOD winter tire is, this is it.
i will not use anything but Hakkas or WS Blizzaks. The tire is not the problem. As mentioned you can't change physics. There is nothing at all you can do to a car with two wheels turning, that will give it the same friction with the road surface that you get with 4 wheels turning.
Anyone who honestly thinks their their RWD will drive as good as AWD in the winter obviously doesn't live anywhere that gets real winter. If the road surface never truly freezes then of course it's no issue to run RWD all year round. It would be a lot more appealing without Toyotas poor excuse for traction control, but that's another story.
In any sense, the original post was asking why Canadians don't just go get a RWD model in the US. The simple answer is that not everyone wants RWD for daily driver they use all year. Not sure why this devolved into a discussion about winter driving?
RWD doesn't cost less. It's simple math, and someone already did it above. By the time you factor in the GST and the dollar conversion, the travel cost to get the car, etc. It wipes out any possible savings and also makes it even more expensive than just buying an AWD here in Canada.
Talk about "Debbie Downer" LOL. With all due respect @ Viktimize you're thinking only in extremes regarding all aspects of all things. You don't take into account that many factors & variables continually change including: a) exchange rates, b) much bigger selection of ALL cars in vastly larger USA markets, c) CPOs with low mileage CAN save $10k +/- within the first year especially on lease returns, d) in some states there's no tax so AFTER SAVINGS as well as AFTER CDN Duty & Taxes & Registration you're still far ahead, e) if unreasonable Duty is applied the CDN government allows Customs appeals which are often granted, and f) in the final quarter of every year and leading into the beginning of the following year there's car buying & selling frenzy across the US.
You mention "the travel cost to get the car". Let's say you save $10k for example. Does it really cost that much getting the car from Seattle if you live in Vancouver, or from Buffalo if you live in Toronto, or like some other posters alluded to -- auction or fleet sales after a "car buying vacation" in MN, FL, TX?
I really hate the ignorance of people saying that RWD is "fine" in the winter. Yes you can survive in the winter with RWD. I've also done it in a lot of cars in the same area Jeff lives. But if you think for one second that AWD doesnt offer significant benefits in winter over RWD then you're out of your mind. My AWD with the ****ty all season tires from dealer, is like night and day compared to driving my RWD IS with dedicated snow tires. And I used to drive my 470hp RWD SRT8 in the winter, so I'm well aware how to drive a RWD car in the winter. Regardless of whether RWD is liveable in the winter or not. What benefit does it offer in the summer over AWD? Other than a tiny bit of fuel mileage? You can argue the handling dynamics are better in a RWD, which is correct.
How about that we know from EXPERIENCE having driven high performance RWDs with dedicated winter tires in inches of ice &/or snow &/or browny-salty-slush, in Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, Mont Tremblant, northern Quebec, northern BC, Whistler, etc, that "RWD is perfectly fine in winter", so don't imply that people might be "IGNORANT" as you you state, when they speak from experience.
Finally, the discussion does not ONLY include AWD vs RWD, which not only did you previously allude to, you nevertheless seem to be caught up in it. In fact, you mention AWD vs RWD in EVERY ARGUMENT you make!! This is about GETTING THE CAR YOU WANT, which in Canada, selection is often much more rare & scarce across ALL brands, models, and sub-types, whether they be AWD, FWD, or RWD.
Regarding all of the above you might like to start thinking outside the box.
I see no advantages to getting a RWD daily driver that warrant paying 10k more for it.
Ya well many others do, especially if the RWD is $10k LESS. And, How about 8-speed transmission/gears?
Talk about "Debbie Downer" LOL. With all due respect @ Viktimize you're thinking only in extremes regarding all aspects of all things. You don't take into account that many factors & variables continually change including: a) exchange rates, b) much bigger selection of ALL cars in vastly larger USA markets, c) CPOs with low mileage CAN save $10k +/- within the first year especially on lease returns, d) in some states there's no tax so AFTER SAVINGS as well as AFTER CDN Duty & Taxes & Registration you're still far ahead, e) if there is unreasonable Duty the CDN government allows Customs appeals which are often granted, and f) in the final quarter of every year and leading into the beginning of the following year there's car buying & selling frenzy across the US.
You mention "the travel cost to get the car". Let's say you save $10k for example. Does it really cost that much getting the car from Seattle if you live in Vancouver, or from Buffalo if you live in Toronto, or like some other posters alluded to -- auction or fleet sales after a "car buying vacation" in MN, FL, TX?
How about that we know from EXPERIENCE having driven high performance RWDs with dedicated winter tires in inches of ice &/or snow &/or browny-salty-slush, in Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, Mont Tremblant, northern Quebec, northern BC, Whistler, etc, that "RWD is perfectly fine in winter", so don't imply that people might be "IGNORANT" as you you state, when they speak from experience.
Finally, the discussion does not ONLY include AWD vs RWD, which not only did you previously allude to, you nevertheless seem to be caught up in it. In fact, you mention AWD vs RWD in EVERY ARGUMENT you make!! This is about GETTING THE CAR YOU WANT, which in Canada, selection is often much more rare & scarce across ALL brands, models, and sub-types, whether they be AWD, FWD, or RWD.
Regarding all of the above you might like to start thinking outside the box.
Ya well many others do, especially if the RWD is $10k LESS. And, How about 8-speed transmission/gears?
thinking in extremes? Ok well you let me know when the dollar hits par again and it's financially feasible to start importing again. I guess it's interesting to dream and theorize, but I was under the impression this was a realistic discussion. My bad if it's not. Realistically you're not going
to see exchange rates be in our favour for
importing again for some time. You make a bunch of other points that also apply to Canada. Once in awhile you can get lucky and find some great deals in the US due to the volume of cars down there, but definitely like you used to before whatever happened under Obama that inflated the hell out of the used car market there.
No no it doesn't cost 10k to go get a car. You missed the point though. In the unlikely event that you can save 10k, you're still going to have costs associated with getting the car imported, and one of them is travel. When I imported my first Viper from Nevada I spent cash on flights down, hotels coming back, and fuel for the car. It was probably around 1000$, so it's a cost worth considering.
How does the conversation include more than RWD or AWD? I've never seen an IS with any other drivetrain. If you know of one with FWD I'd be interested to see it. Of course I mentioned AWD vs RWD in every discussion point, that's what the thread was about essentially!
If the thread read was about getting the car you want that's news to me. The OP made a post about why anyone would buy a Lexus in Canada when they can just go get a RWD in the states. And fact of the matter is, believe it or not, a lot of people actually want AWD. So that's why people don't just go to the states in droves to buy RWD.
Now, if you wanna start "thinking outside the box", and going off into the ether. Then sure let's discuss that.
If if you truly want a RWD, then the price shouldn't really matter. Just spend the extra and go get one in the states when it comes to a new car. But you're really going down the rabbit hole talking about used cars now. So if we are going to make wild assumptions, then we can assume anyone wanting RWD probably cares about performance. If someone cares about performance, doesn't mind buying used, and actually cares to save 10k(or more), then why the heck waste time and money going to the US to buy a basic IS when they can just get an IS-F for 25-30k less than a new IS?
Yes ~ it seems you think only in extremes, black or white, no middle ground, not able to think outside the box, nor able to consider that there's always many factors & variables at play. Your focus tends to always be very narrow.
Ok well you let me know when the dollar hits par again and it's financially feasible to start importing again. I guess it's interesting to dream and theorize, but I was under the impression this was a realistic discussion. My bad if it's not. Realistically you're not going to see exchange rates be in our favour for importing again for some time. You make a bunch of other points that also apply to Canada. Once in awhile you can get lucky and find some great deals in the US due to the volume of cars down there, but definitely like you used to before whatever happened under Obama that inflated the hell out of the used car market there.
IMO this an extremely perplexing & strange tangent. Are you aware that millions of Canadians have bank accounts &/or savings &/or vacation homes in the US? Are you aware that CIBC, TD , BMO, and other major CDN banks have huge holdings and/or branches across the USA? Is this NOT "realistic"? lol
No no it doesn't cost 10k to go get a car. You missed the point though. In the unlikely event that you can save 10k, you're still going to have costs associated with getting the car imported, and one of them is travel. When I imported my first Viper from Nevada I spent cash on flights down, hotels coming back, and fuel for the car. It was probably around 1000$, so it's a cost worth considering.
No ~ I didn't miss the point. Not only do you think in extremes you ASSUME A LOT. Of course travel costs are taken into consideration, hence stated several times ~ "car buying vacations to TX or FL" which does not imply hitchhiking down and camping out on the street. That is also what is implied when writing "if you save $10k for example", "does it really cost that much" ~ in NET ~ to bring a car back. In your case you spent $1000, but if you save $10000 you're still ahead by $9000. Obviously you got the Viper coz it's THE CAR YOU WANTwhich is the point of this thread.
How does the conversation include more than RWD or AWD? I've never seen an IS with any other drivetrain. If you know of one with FWD I'd be interested to see it. Of course I mentioned AWD vs RWD in every discussion point, that's what the thread was about essentially!
The conversation includes much more than RWD or AWD because that is what is WRITTEN in the Title, OP, and several posts within the thread. And, *ONLY* RWD vs AWD, is NOT AT ALL "what the thread is about essentially". Did you read the TITLE of the thread? Did you closely read the OP? Did you pay attention to the remainder of the posts? If you did then you'd realize that the thread IS NOT referring to ONLY to the IS, nor particular drivetrains, which has been repeated several times, but you seem to always ignore or miss this.
If the thread read was about getting the car you want that's news to me. The OP made a post about why anyone would buy a Lexus in Canada when they can just go get a RWD in the states.
See the previous comment. I direct you again to the Title, OP, and the remainder of the thread. It wouldn't be "news to you" if you read the Title, OP, and all further posts. The OP goes far beyond ONLY what you claim!
Now, if you wanna start "thinking outside the box", and going off into the ether. Then sure let's discuss that. But you're really going down the rabbit hole talking about used cars now. So if we are going to make wild assumptions, then we can assume anyone wanting RWD probably cares about performance. If someone cares about performance, doesn't mind buying used, and actually cares to save 10k(or more), then why the heck waste time and money going to the US to buy a basic IS when they can just get an IS-F for 25-30k less than a new IS?
It seems like the only one making wild, varying, non-topical & non-related assumptions & tangents is you... IMO you're doing a disservice to some benefits & pros which this thread is attempting to service.
Comments embedded & highlighted below... It seems like the only one making wild, varying, non-related assumptions & tangents is you... IMO you're doing a disservice to some benefits & pros, which this thread is attempting to service.
I'm the one thinking in extremes, but you're the one that has to post all these wild extremes to make your point valid. Lol. Ok. ?
Did I read the title? Uh yes I did. You wrote it to sound like you were insinuating that anyone buying an IS would want RWD. And then wrote nothing else within the thread to specify what you actually meant. You just made some incorrect and unlikely remarks in an attempt to say it would be beneficial to buy a car in the states. Which of course I wouldn't know anything about being that I used to import cars(that's sarcasm btw in case you're still suffering from poor reading comprehension)
So suddenly this is just a random thread that has no care for the the model of car? Despite it being posted in the 3rd gen IS forum?
How is a comment directly related to the used car market pricing considered a "tangent" while I'm replying to your comments about used car pricing?
Sounds like you had other intentions for this thread. It just wasn't a well thought out post to relay what you were thinking. Not a big deal, everyone makes mistakes. Why not just clarify what you actually meant and allow conversation to go back on topic and continue? Seems like you're just hell bent on arguing for the sake of arguing.
As far as just getting the car you want despite model or
make etc. Absolutely I would go to the states. Plain and simple there is just more selection there in the used market to find exactly what you want. I know that I'd have to pay a premium above what I'd pay here in Canada nowadays, but paying a little extra to get exactly the right car makes sense some times.
07-30-17, 06:27 PM
