magne

I also found it strange driving with the first time, but adjusted quickly.
It took me a few minutes to find out that pushing in the oppsite direction shut of the endless blinking from the second stage, where it does not turn of until you've actually made a turn.
The level of the blinker can be adjusted to "soft" "midle" or "hard" according to my instruction manual. Have not had it done myself, but I can look into if this is something the dealer has to do, or if you can do it yourself from the settings in the car.

KeyserS

Now I'm confused again. You said before that when you put it in the 2nd position, that it will return immediately to the start position. If so, then what exactly do you do to shut it off? Move it in the other direction?

I think I need to go to the dealer and borrow the manual and read it, but at this point I'm thinking that this thing is likely a PITA.

KeyserS

That is no help whatsoever.

As I already said, based on what I infer from the description that thejaperu gave, it was already in the position that I call the neutral position, when I tried to turn it off. Are you now saying that it does not actually return to the neutral position after you let go of it? To describe something of this sort in a way that will be at all useful, it is necessary to be very precise with what you write.

KeyserS

There are some things that you do get used to, and some things that are just bad designs and that you never get used to. At this point I do not know which this is, and I probably should wait until I have some more experience with it, but judging from how difficult it evidently is for anyone to even describe the functionality in a way that someone who does not already know how it works could even understand, I'm starting to think that it is the sort of thing that you do not ever really get used to. But I'll wait until I've got it fully sorted out.

Perhaps some kindly person could scan the appropriate page(s) from the user manual and post it. (hint, hint)

jennypenny

I am used it now.

half pull, i get three signals

full pull, i get unlimited signals till i finish my turn.

that said, the signal click is really soft though. but pretty good, if you are stalling on the roadside waiting for someone.

magne

Read the other posts properly. It is not hard to figure out at all.
The indicator have two levels up and down. The first level is so that the indicator flases three times.
The second level turns on the indicator. The handle always returns to middle position no matter what.
The indicator turns of after you've made a turn.
To manually turn the indicator of, just push the handle in the opposite direction, and it shuts of.
Not hard to understand at all. Only difference between a normal handle and this one is that this one returns to center instead of beeing stuck in the direction you've pushed it.

The dealership can according to some papers I found, set the indicator level to "soft" "medium" or "hard". I assume this is the volume of the clicking sound the indicator makes when it is turned on.

r0shiro

iTrader: (1)

Dude are you serious? It's not a bad design. It has added some automation to a manual process(first position). I'm the one confused now. DO YOU HAVE THIS CAR? One, the car comes with a manual so just read it. Two, even without the manual, it takes no more than 30 seconds sitting in the car turned on, parked and playing with the lever.

And it's not the explanations that are the problem. You lack basic comprehension skills. Reading will develop comprehension skills....hint hint. That's why people here are just slapping their heads...

from on position - turn it in the opposite direction to turn it off. If you are blinking to make a left turn, push the lever to make the right blinker flash and it will turn off. If you initially pushed down on the lever to turn on the blinker, then push up to turn it off and vise-versa. Like someone else here said earlier....its like EVERY other car you've ever driven. That's as simple as it gets dude.

Glashub

It's supposed to be more of a touch sensitive deal. It takes a while to get the feel for it. But it does feel more elegant. Lexus tries for more elegant whenever they can imo -- hence the clock.

KeyserS

This is the best explanation offered thus far, but the part about "Read the other posts properly" was uncalled for and not appropriate to the quality of what had been written. I do read very properly, and have exceedingly good language skills, both reading and writing.

But this is the best, most complete and intelligible explanation offered thus far. And it agrees with what I inferred after reading what thejaperu wrote first, but then he added something later that was confusing to me, which I already pointed out and explained why it was confusing.

It would still be better if some kind person could simply scan the page from the user manual and post it. But short of that, I am going to paraphrase what you wrote, and ask that you correct me wherever I have incorrectly interpreted what you meant. Here goes:

-----
In addition to the middle or neutral position, there are two positions to either side of the middle position, for a total of five positions including the middle position. The stalk always returns immediately to the middle position, whether you move it to the first position closest to the middle position, or to the second position furthest from the middle position.

For the two positions closest to the middle position, the turn signals stop automatically after flashing three times.

For the two positions furthest from the middle position, the turn signals are fully engaged, i.e., will not stop automatically after blinking three times. In this case, the turn signals will ordinarily turn off automatically after you complete a turn. To turn them off manually, in circumstances where they do not turn off automatically, move the stalk to the first position in the direction opposite to the direction for which the turn signals are blinking.
--

There is always a dichotomy with these kinds of things. To the person who is accustomed to it, the behavior of the thing seems obvious, and the description that he/she offered seems complete and absent any ambiguity. To the person unaccustomed to it, it seems mysterious and esoteric, and there are obvious gaps and ambiguities in the hasty attempts to explain it. "Walk a mile in my shoes", the songwriter wrote. And the characterization: "Only difference" is well off the mark. There are several differences between this and what I would consider to be a "normal" turn signal operation.


In a reality of my choosing, the setting would actually affect the amount of force required to move it into or out of any of the different individual positions.

It is obvious to me that this is a bad, bad design. It is bad that the action that you have to perform to cancel the turn signal is more different than it inherently has to be, for the two different directions of the turn signal. Inherently, it is at least possible for that action to be always to return it to the center position. Here, they have designed so that it is already in the center position, which evidently means that the direction you move it to cancel it is different for the two directions of the operating turn signal. This was a really, really stupid design decision, and to borrow from what AMNss said, whoever designed this should be kicked. But this isn't all that is wrong with it. This design allows for this to potentially occur: the signal seems not to be turning off by itself, so you decide to turn it off manually. But just before you do that, it turns off by itself, and the effect of your attempt to turn it off manually is to turn it on, for one of the two directions, go figure which.

There just isn't any getting around this fact: this is a horrible, horrible design. Instead of all the owners saying that you just need to get used to it, the owners should all look to do what is right for people who buy next year's model, and report back to Lexus that this design is a total screwup and needs to be corrected as soon as possible. It is preposterous for a turn signal to work this way.

KeyserS

Dude, I am as serious as I could possibly be. I have spent more than thirty years of my life as a systems engineer, and have been driving cars for right about 45 years, so I think I am qualified to comment on whether this is a good design or a bad design. It is a horrible design, and very plainly so.

And no, I do not have the car, not yet anyway, and this of course is obvious. Why else would I be asking all this, and asking for someone to scan and post the manual page. Why would you make a statement of that sort, given that the answer is as obvious as it is? What would be anyone's true, genuine purpose in doing something of that sort?

And the other thing you wrote is just PLAIN RUDE. I assure you that there are no problems whatsoever with my basic comprehension skills. That is so far off the mark that it is risible. My comprehension skills rank above 99 percentile, according to every test I every took when I was young, and I'm fairly confident that my comprehension skills are as good now as they ever were. YOU ARE A RUDE PERSON. That is very plainly a fact. The fact of the matter is that whenever anyone posts any question similar to this in any web forum, immediately there are lots of responses that were written by people who invested perhaps 30 seconds in the response, because when it comes to web forums, they aren't getting paid and its all for self-gratification anyway. Look at ANY web forum, and you see this over and over and over. I object to your overt, blatant insult.

You had no call whatsoever to insult me in the blatant manner that you did. You are a rude, inconsiderate person, no question about it.

r0shiro

iTrader: (1)

COMPREHENSION dude. I've reread my post(s) and I can't find ONE insult. I stated you lack a basic skill. That is not an insult. "you are dumb, stupid, whatever"(which i doubt you are btw)...THESE are insults. Was my last comment offensive to you? OBVIOUSLY. Was I rude in my last comment? ABSOLUTELY! Your big words are impressive yes, but they become aesthetic when you make claims like this one.

I constantly have to manage projects and it always holds true...engineers should never be designers. It seems that engineers hold functionality over the consumer experience and 9 out of 10 times its the wrong decision. If I'm remembering my previous vehicles correctly, the turn signal stays engaged in the up or down position until the turn of the wheel is satisfied and then it SNAPS back into the neutral position with a noise that doesn't let you forget it. A designer came along and said, "hey engineer, i want to get rid of that snap at the end of the turn and that snap noise. I also don't want the user to continuously hold the blinker in the first position when a lane change takes an average of 3 blinks, so let's automate the first position somewhat, but lets give the user the option to keep our decision or not." Then the engineer gets to work.

You think it's a horrible design? cool....you are not a designer though. and DUDE...its simple, when you turn anything in one direction common sense should tell you that to get the equal and opposite reaction, turn it the opposite direction. when you turn the left blinker on, turning it to the right must turn it off.

In the end, I let this TWO page discussion about a blinker hook me and I was rude to you. For that I am sorry. Good luck

magne

I think it was well explained by others before me, but I can see that some of the posts may be confusing as they contradict the other posts.

You did get my explanation correct, except for the fact that if you need to shut of the blinker, it does not matter if you pull it to stage1 or 2 in the opposite direction. It will shut of in both these stages.

I think the fact that the handle returns to the center is the only difference from a normal blinker.
Most modern cars have two stages of blinking, where the first stage only blinks three times.
The second stage on modern cars turn the blinker on, like in the lexus.
After turning all cars shuts the blinker off, like in the lexus.

The only difference is that in the lexus the handle returns to the middle, while in normal cars it is stuck in the blinking position.
If you need to turn of the blinker in a normal car, you pull it in the other direction, but only to the center position, but in the lexus, since it alredy is in the center position, you still pull it in the oppsite direction, only further down.
As I said, the only difference is that it returns to center position.

If you can come with any more differences, just list them.
I respect your opionion about the design, but I do not agree with it at all. I actually quite like the solution once I've figured it out.

Don't know how the soft, meduim, hard setting affects the handle or sound. Haven't tried it. Only saw the dealer option.

And if you think the blinker is a bad design, don't buy the car. The handle for the wipers are a lot worse. A LOT worse. There it also returns to the center, but the center for the wipers are between the interwall and slow stage So you have off and interwall below the center postiton, and slow and fast over the center position. You also have "wipe once" at the off position if the wipers are off, and you can get a rain sensor at a separte button.