Tone2002

Get a life! Yeah YOU! Plenty of options for everyone on style of car.

Ramon

You can insult me, bold my quote, increase the font size and color it red. You'll still need to get over it.

The existence of this thread clearly proves you wrong. If there was plenty of options for everyone, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The state of my life, for better or worse, won't change this reality.

Tone2002

What life? Get one.

There is no discussion in here at all. Get real.

euro.r

Wow, I thought we'd all be a bit more civil here...this isn't NASIOC afterall...

natnut

The non- F-Sport IS doesn't get AVS and VGRS and staggered sports 18" wheels
Non F-Sport GS doesn't get rear steering, VGRS and staggered sports 19" wheels

Rear steering, AVS and VGRS are almost impossible to retrofit.

machmike

Let's try to stay on topic and limit insulting each other. Save that nonsense for another thread.



The point of the topic is: When you step back from the emotional half of choosing a 44-50k car this is what I see:

---The IS250 is garbage. F Sport or Not. Regardless of how awesome it looks. A bad value. It could have been so much more. What a wasted opportunity Lexus had there....

---The IS350 F Sport is amazing. F Sport styling awesome.. No doubt. Its my first choice (the emotional one). Everything about this cosmetic package makes me smile.

---The F Sport options (outside of the cosmetic and maybe the snug seats) pretty much won't ever get used in real life by 90% of people who own the car...ever. Its total superficial lust and awesomeness. And that is totally OK. (remember remove your emotional reaction).

---The marketing geniuses at Lexus have convinced myself and a bunch of others to forgo decades of integrated technology and many basic features for a 44-50k sedan for the cosmetics alone. This is no small feat. Kudos to Lexus. Shame on us?

--- The F Sport as a value (the package) is really bad, compared to the same price luxury package (with no real world loss in performance). When considering how many decades of technology we are opting out of.

I think Lexus could have really separated the F Sport as a package much further away from the regular IS version. But they chose not to. For the price of this car, nobody should have to forgo some of the technology (memory seats for example), colors, and other options they left out.

Lexus needs to separate the F Sport package much further than they chose to. The whole this country gets these colors, this one doesn't is just mind boggling from a marketing standpoint. What a lost opportunity.

Cheers

flipside909

Some may find more of the luxury package options beneficial. The biggest features that stand out to me in a Luxury Package over an F SPORT are:

Ventilated & Heated Seats
Memory Seat Feature
Fog Lamps
Rear Sunshade (optional on F Sport depending on what region built it).
Power Tilt/Telescopic Steering Wheel (optional on F Sport)
Park Assist

The seats and bolstering are the same and the standard suspension setup already handles well off the bat. The Sport S+ with AVS is a nice feature, but the one step dampening is something most people wont use on a daily basis. Also in Sport S or Sport S+, 8th gear is locked out on IS 350 RWD models...hence decresed highway mileage. The standard speedo although not 100% LCD is a lot easier to glance at and has a lot more usable information housed in the center lcd display.

If we had all the F SPORT features and colors like the rest of the globe....

LED Foglamps
Ventilated Seats
Memory Seating
Park Assist
Rear Sunshade
Atomic Silver
Ultrasonic Blue

....the F SPORT would be the obvious choice.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

Tone2002, you need to learn how to accept different kind of opinions, even if you don't agree, and also how to reply constructively.

Ramon, same thing as well. It's OK to state opinions but getting into personal attacks while the other party does the same is not making you look any better.

Tone2002 and Ramon, both please exit this thread

Glashub

Interesting take machmike. My previous car had everything that was missing from the Fsport:

Ventilated & Heated Seats
Memory Seat Feature
Fog Lamps
Rear Sunshade (optional on F Sport depending on what region built it).
Hill Assist
Radar cruise
and more

and I discovered in the 2 years I owned it that I seldom used any of it. Truly. What I gave up was ride/handling. So I reassessed why I buy a car -- and opted for the Fsport. It seems the Q50 leaves something to be desired in the ride -- see the video in the other thread -- I've had enough of that.

I see it in the a/v world all of the time -- got to have the latest pre/pro with 4h upscaling, 14 speaker surround, etc. -- for a 7.1 system, cuz -- you never know -- one might have 14 speakers someday.

I had the 4.6 version of this:

"What the Genesis 5.0 does is beat competitors in value, with all of the major options included in the $48,000 price. It also gets a 10-year/100,000-mile power train warranty.

The all-in sticker is a major change from the practices of German automakers, who are especially prone to charging for every option. It’s also not easy to find a base BMW or Mercedes on sales lots.

While there is a base Genesis sedan with a 333-horsepower V-6 and a price of $35,100, the R-Spec is the model most in keeping with its rivals. It has a 5.0-liter V-8 with an eight-speed transmission, 19-inch wheels and leather seats.

Also included are a power sunroof, lane departure warning system, rain-sensing wipers, adaptive xenon headlamps, a navigation system and backup camera. One of the few options you can add is a $35 iPod cable."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...tml?cmpid=yhoo

AndyL

Hi flipside909,

Thanks for the great summary. Your thoughts and considerations are almost the same as mine. And I end up choosing the non F Sport one.

One thing I didn't know about it is in Sport S+ mode, 8th gear gets locked out. Actually during my short highway test drive with the IS350 RWD F Sport, I think it confirms with this setting.

The Sport S+ mode is certainly a good one but because it affects both the suspension setting and the transmission behaviour, it means I won't use it all the time in daily driving because of fuel consumption. Basically I would use it only on open and windy road for a short period of time. In my area, there are not that many roads where I can make use of it.

One last comment about the LED Foglight in F Sport offered elsewhere -- I suspect it is for appearance purpose as it doesn't have too many lumen if it is consistent with the fog light in regular one or the optional LED fog light for regular IS in Japan (it only has 730lm). I wouldn't miss it too much if I have a F Sport with the LED fog.

For regular 3IS, the fog light uses H16 (19W only)---- Lexus and Toyota have switched it a little while ago. Scion FR-S/Toyota FT86/Subaru BRZ and Toyota Prius/Toyota Aqua (Japan) have shared the same issue. This is the reason why you will see a growing number of aftermarket LED fogs which attempt to improve the brightness.

spwolf

AVS doesnt work only in S+ mode, it works always... are the seats the same? They are not the same in Europe.

I could care less about all those things you listed such as rear sunshade which is ridicilous as it doesnt do anything on IS due to position of the rear window... I cant remeber when I turned on my fogs last time, if ever in 2IS... other things I have, and I could care less about them.


p.s. This thread wasnt about what is missing in F-Sport, it was about how OP thought Luxury was better choice and F-Sport is bad value. Of course, some members have turned this into whats missing in F-Sport thread, as usual.

flipside909

The Lexus Adaptive Variable Suspension in the GS and IS are really a two way shock setting. You have normal and stiff dampening. The electronic controller turns the adjustment **** exactly 90 degrees. It does not actively change the settings back and forth. Think of Tein EDFC for your suspension but in an OE application like this, there are only 2 main settings. The last car to have a multi setting AVS was the 3rd Gen ES with a 4 way setting. Something most people don't realize is that Lexus AVS is "Adaptive" not "Active".

Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_suspension
Everyone has their preference in what they want in a car. Just because one doesn't like their coffee with cream and sugar doesn't mean everyone likes it the same way. I think anything that pertains to talking about the F Sport package and what you give up or what not is valid. It's a discussion forum. Everyone has their $0.02. Get over it.

natnut

Sorry. You're wrong in this case. i remember reading the technical brief when the 2013 GS was unveiled. The AVS is Active, just that Lexus chooses to call it Adaptive. The dampening rates are actively adjusted according to road conditions making far more complex than the tein EDFC which have only fixed dampening rates.

Spywolf is right in this case about the AVS working all the time. How did I see it in action? During my test-drive of the 2013 GS350 F-Sport, my car sales-man sitting next to me encouraged me to drive at about 60kph (40mph) at a large road hump. At that time, the car was in Sport mode which is to say the dampers were in default stiffness. Ride was supple but firm when driving on flat road so I expected a huge crash when hitting the road hump. Imagine my surprise when the dampers softened momentarily such that the car sailed over the huge road hump with minimal shocks filtering into the cabin.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

I'm not a suspension expert...

But here is the 2013 GS350 Technical Video from Nov. 2011 #TBT

Skip to 8.40s for AVS presentation




~ Joe Z

peteharvey

I thought my 3GS350 had 8 stages in its damper settings? Nevermind.
The active shock absorbers work all the time.
As road speed rises, the shock absorber valving becomes smaller, for greater resistance on rebound - hence less floatiness.
Firm shock absorber valve settings are also automatically actuated under heavy acceleration, heavy braking, and heavy cornering.
On Sports Mode, the shock absorbers use the firm valve settings immediately and constantly.

Think of floatiness along the frequency of oscillation.
If the vertical oscillation is slow, the car feels floaty.
You will notice in vehicles with firm dampers, or when Sports+ is used, the vertical oscillations are at a much higher frequency, for better handling, but not as comfortable a ride.

You can buy say Koni manually adjustable shock absorbers, where you must use a screw driver to alter the shock absorber valving rates - but it is set and forget.

Active suspension, there is normally no passive coil spring, but an active pneumatic or hydraulic spring powered by the engine. More air or hydraulic pressure can be pumped in to increase the spring rates, and the ride height etc.

The 3GS and 3IS uses active shock absorbers or active dampers, but not active suspension, because the coil springs work passively...
http://www.lexus.com.bh/technology_e....asp?model=All