Glashub

You're right -- it is funny and was an error on my part. But even what I did find (correctly) raises doubt about the claim that there is no way an R-spec is as fast as a BMW. There are always people coming on every car forum I've ever been to touting BMW. It's kind of a drag. Who's got time for that? I don't have time to go to BMW forums and slam BMW for its weaknesses.

Ramon

Its a discussion forum. It's intent is to... Discuss. I've got time for it, and don't suddenly run out of time when it comes to talking about weaknesses, of any vehicle, including Lexus vehicles. If the topic doesn't interest me, I won't participate. If it does and I disagree with something, i'll retort with my own opinion.

Im a Lexus fan over a BMW fan, that's why I'm on this site. But I have no problem saying that the 3IS is under powered and under optioned compared to it's Bavarian counterpart.

Stillhart

I'm not saying all I care about is "stomp on the gas". What I'm saying is that the engine is so insanely better that, even though the Lexus handling may be a little better and the interior may be a little better, the Lexus seems worse overall. Keep in mind that the BMW isn't uncomfortable and it's not a bad handler. It's just arguably a little worse than the Lexus in those departments.

I realize all of this is subjective and I don't expect people on the Lexus forum to agree. I'm actually happy to be proven wrong if it comes to that as I really prefer the Lexus on paper. But saying that the only the the BMW is good for is power is a little disingenuous.

And of course, you have to pay for what you get. Is it worth spending 6-10k more for the BMW? That's the real question IMO.

Ramon

It should also be noted that BMW has "free" maintenance, which translates to the cost of that maintenance being incorporated into the cost of the vehicle. A few oil changes and a brake job, and the costs difference narrows while the engine and option disparity hasn't.

peteharvey

The Beamer is bad value for money.
However the overall decision rests with the tastes, hence the priorities of the driver.

If the driver prioritises conservative gentleman's styling, space, and straight line power, then the choice will be 3 Series.
On the otherhand, if the driver prioritises cheetah-like styling, handling, durability/longevity, and value for money, then he will go IS350...

dojoman

iTrader: (5)

I would buy a BMW in a heart beat if it weren't for constant reliability issues. Recently saw a post on bimmerfest a guy just drove off the lot and 5 miles later all lights went out with limp mode. Not worth it for a car you just paid $60k IMO.

Glashub

What cost does one ascribe to freedom from worry? What is the value of that? How much money is it worth to know that every time I get in my Lexus it will do exactly as advertised?

SecPole14

Nicely said.

Glashub

^^^^

Thank you.

Stillhart

So on topic, did anyone see this article?

Comparison:
The Big Test: 2013/2014 Luxury Sport Sedans
Audi S4 vs. BMW 335i xDrive vs. Cadillac ATS4 3.6 vs. Lexus IS 350 AWD vs. Volvo S60 T6


In reference to the IS350, they say: "My own notes read, "Weak-sauce engine."" Seems I'm not the only one.

Glashub

I think your original postulate was that it wasn't appreciably better than the 250, right?

Also, if you read the comments you'll discover that rag according to long time readers is basically a shill for all things BMW and that it makes no sense to put the BMW 1st given price and it's limitations.

Ramon

There is certainly a value to that, and that's what makes the 3IS (f-sport) situation so frustrating to a consumer like myself. I like the level of reliability and service I have received as a Lexus customer and I'm not so sure I'd get that by jumping ship to a 335 or ATS or G50. But [for me] the 2014 IS leaves quite a lot to be desired.

I don't expect the 3IS to beat it's competition in every metric imaginable, that would be unrealistic. But I don't think it's unreasonable to want to buy a 2014 IS and at least have the ability to option it out the same way or better than my 2006 IS. I also don't think it's unreasonable to want a power plant that can out perform my 7 year old one, and as it stands now, the 3IS can't even match it.

Stillhart

I don't claim that the BMW is best just because they said so. I know enough about how these things work. I just found that one comment to agree with my experience, which many people on here seem to disagree with.

My postulate is that the 350 doesn't feel particularly fast, so why get the 350 when the 250 feels about the same and is significantly cheaper. I think, after a lot of the responses I've been seeing, that the issue may be about the sense of speed rather than the actual speed. I do plan to drive again and try some different things to make sure I'm getting the right feel for it.

Aeromotive

1) Well, only fools don't change their mind, right? I don't see it as a mistake

2) Really? Because buying a luxury, 40-60k$ car is a necessity? If I stuck to your theory, I'd be driving a Yaris, which would take me from point A to point B with top-notch reliability and more than enough engine for my daily commute. We're not talking about necessities here, we're talking about luxury cars. You don't need a Lexus or a BMW unless your works consists of taking clients to dinners. When paying 60k$ for a car, I'd rather it be as close to my tastes as possible, hence my comments about engine power.

As I said in OP they're both AWD. FYI I had the full amount to pay for the car in cash, but decided to lease because of the following concerns :
1) Reliability after warranty is over.
2) Didn't want to get stuck with a fully-loaded 3-series because they're not in demand where I live (everyone wants 328's, not 335's with M Sport and Premium package).
3) High mileage (approx 30000km per year) was another concern that this car won't sell after 3 years, especially with warranty being over.
4) Bigger depreciation than the IS.
5) Wife wanted the 335!

To answer everything that has been said here about value for money, I would add that the IS350 AWD F-Sport Executive package is 55k$ (Canada), while I got the 335 for 59k$ (200$ below invoice). The BMW has more bells and whistles, but they're not worth the 4k$ difference, IMO.

Glad it helped. My goal was to help anyone in my situation make the right decision, whether it be BMW or Lexus.

Yeah... that's what I thought too

Indeed it is, this is why I turned to leasing instead of buying. I don't want to get stuck with a BMW after its warranty is over. Lexus wins hands-down in terms of reliability


You're making it sound worse than it is... when a car is 10 years old, then your logic applies. However we're comparing new cars here. Of course you have horror stories and limp mode incidents with BMW, but I don't think the difference in reliability is that big in the first 2-3 years (I admit there is one).

Although I didn't own a 2IS, the thought of having a 7-year old engine (granted, a reliable one) on a re-designed car didn't seem right, especially with its inferior performance and higher gas consumption...

natnut

Well said. Peace of mind is one important aspect of a luxury experience as well.