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Hello everyone,
I am working on rebuilding the 2GR-FSE engine from my 2008 IS350. The reason for the rebuild was spun Conrod Bearings. I took the engine out, disassembled to the core block and found more than one conrod bearing spun.
Okay so the issue I'm having now is parts. I can't seem to find too many used cranks and conrods for the specific engine. I have no issue purchasing a used working engine (I would still tear it down and rebuild it) but before going that route I'm curious to find out if the crank stroke from the 2GR-FE is the same, and are the conrods the same?...I read somewhere that it isnt a forged crank and the neither are the conrods...but I'm ignorant on this otherwise. I'm only wondering what parts are cross compatible so that I can open up my part search to include other engines.
-I need a new crankshaft (scoring appears deeper than the 0.25mm undersize bearings I can get)
-I need 6 new conrods
All other pieces of the engine are good and can be used to finish the build.
And lastly, has anyone ported and polished these heads? I feel while its apart I might as well even if it's for only mediocre performance gains.
My assumption is a few things:
-I had a timing belt tensioner that broke down and possibly plugged oil passages.
-The car was owned previously by someone else and I have no idea what was done (or not done) to it.
-Something I'm unaware of....the engine has 200,000 miles on it. (I know that doesnt mean this should've happened)
To be 100% honest I can't be sure if the timing chain tensioner went because of the bearing breakdown or if the tensioner helped to cause the bearing failure.
To be honest, I've only read of one other member having had torn apart a 350 block to rebuild; but if that long block ever made it back together or not...who knows. Anyhow, you'd be exploring new territory on CL here regarding the cross-compatibility of the two mentioned motors. But I feel this has been discussed (and I might have read about some of it) on some of those MR2 enthusiasts websites regarding their ability to do swap in these V6 long blocks into the MR2 chassis.
Regarding the actual scoring of the rod journals, does your fingernail catch anywhere on the journals? If so, the crank probably is not able to be re-used. If not, you can probably get away with a oversized bearing, like you mentioned.
Yeah the journals are definitely messed beyond repair. I won't be able to grind them for reuse, unfortunately.
I am a tool and die maker so I have full access to machinery. Save a center grinder large enough to grind a crank. Which is fine as I'm going to have to buy a new or used crank.
I was reading some of the other engine builds, and as you said there is some talk of using different cranks but they all seem to be for big performance gain builds. Lots of machining and for the intent to push considerable hp gains from the engine.
I guess I'm just struggling to find enough parts to determine if I'm left buying another used engine for around $1500 and rebuilding that or searching longer and harder for parts that I can use to rebuild the existing for less money. Seems to be slim pickings (and I live in Canada so it's REALLY slim up here) in the way of replacement parts. The engine isn't worth spending a couple thousand on a crankshaft alone. I found a couple used engines up here for around $3000-$4000 and was hoping I could locate parts to save on some money and have some more confidence with a fresh build than something used....that I would want to rebuild anyway.
From reading some things online it appears the crankshaft is the same but what you read and what is fact sometimes differ...
looks like the stroke, bore and pitch are the same leading me to believe they're the same short block. Appears also that the FE has a forged crankshaft as well. As far as I can tell even the connecting rods are the same. Only thing I've found is that the pistons are different material...which doesn't effect me as the cylinders and pistons both are in great condition and I would reuse the pistons.
If anyone knows otherwise or can shed a little light on this that would be great.
Use a website to do a "where used" on the parts and it will tell you. I can't post a specific link as this site deletes it but it has a lot to do with toyota and DIY....
Did that part perhaps make an internal oil leak when it failed? If so, maybe it broke and starved the engine? i.e. the path of least resistance is right to the pan vs oiling the rods!
Did it really spin the bearings in the rods or just hammer the bearings thin and bugger the journals? Some failure modes actually transfer material and the crank can be saved.
Can you a rod picture? Are these fracture split rods? If so, no resizing can be done that I know of.
I would want to know why before spending money. Is the pump scored? Any chance some plug popped out and made a big leak?
If search a bit you'll find a very helpful site. If not that one others have a go, no go type part number usage.
Use a website to do a "where used" on the parts and it will tell you. I can't post a specific link as this site deletes it but it has a lot to do with toyota and DIY....
Did that part perhaps make an internal oil leak when it failed? If so, maybe it broke and starved the engine? i.e. the path of least resistance is right to the pan vs oiling the rods!
Did it really spin the bearings in the rods or just hammer the bearings thin and bugger the journals? Some failure modes actually transfer material and the crank can be saved.
Can you a rod picture? Are these fracture split rods? If so, no resizing can be done that I know of.
I would want to know why before spending money. Is the pump scored? Any chance some plug popped out and made a big leak?
If search a bit you'll find a very helpful site. If not that one others have a go, no go type part number usage.
Thanks for that. I believe it was oil not getting to the conrod journals. I do intend on checking for cracks throughout and checking the oil galleys for blockages. I would like to find a used short block and build off that. It's just difficult to find 2GR-FSE parts and used engines up here. However there are lots of 2GR-FE engines and parts as they seem to be in more of the desired vehicles.
With regards to the pounding versus spun, I'm not totally sure. The bearings are spun almost to nothing. If they were pounded at first I can't tell now. I had a tensioner failure and I believe it may have something to do with the bottom end damage...maybe because it's easy to think that. Lol
The oil pump is not scored. When I pulled the motor out I honestly prioritized getting to the oil pump because I felt that I was going to find a failure there. That was before I got to the crank and saw the damage. But to my surprise the oil pump was in great shape...
I totally agree with the path of least resistance...I havent found a missing plug. There was nothing in the oil anyways and no visible issues either. But for sure I have to have it tested and cleaned out. The oil was full of large chips of steel...more so than fine particles. So the breakdown happened really fast versus slow wear to a melt down.
I'm going to post some pics of everything for you to look at. If nothing else it's some engine gore ****.
I've found conflicting information about the compatibility of the short block between the 2GR-FE and the 2GR-FSE. I've read enough to see that it's identicle from the conrod pin down. Bore, stroke, pitch. Both are forged in respect to conrods and crankshaft. Cyclinder sleeves are the same. It starts to change at the pistons and then almost everything above the deck is different.
But then I read part numbers and their part numbers are different...or sellers post that the fitment doesnt include the 5th digit VIN "E" IS350...
I feel pretty ignorant on it as I don't know enough about the vast variety of models and engine differences to be confident.
Did you buy it blown up? Knocking and all that?
In the ideal world the bearings give their life protecting both the journal and rod but that doesn't look to be the case here. All 6 of them look like that?
Crazy right?!?! No I for sure didnt buy it like that. I bought it while it was still young in its life. So any engine damage I'll take full responsibility for. I ran synthetic oil...not saying that is any kind of insurance. Shes a typical FSE with burning oil so I was always aware of oil levels.
oil pump is fine. Main bearings on the crank are fine. Just the conrod bearings...and the timing chain tensioners (secondary t/c ones) The timing chain tensioners I'm now believing weren't getting enough oil upon failure. But I think the bearing pieces plugged the filter and lead to further damage. Filter looks good other than the steel from the bearing. I cant find anything else wrong with it. But something obviously f'd up. It is a high mileage engine but still I've never had an engine failure like this. Especially on an engine that is otherwise considered to be of higher quality...
10-08-18, 10:56 AM
2GR-FSE Engine rebuild (2008 IS350)
