How to deal with Dealer asking for $ for misfire fix?
03-21-16, 06:53 AM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
How to deal with Dealer asking for $ for misfire fix?
Hello, Guys.
I will be happy if any of you working in lexus and/or can advice anything on solution.
--
Eventually, few months before i got CEL & TRAC OFF.
First CEL was blinking for few seconds on high speed, like 180km/h, later it began on 100-110km/h..
After few times, the CEL came up and won't dim until i stop the car for moment...
Last time (last friday) the CEL & TRAC came to stay.
---
Model IS250 Fsport 2012.
Mileage: ~70,000 miles
Latest maintenance: ~1300 miles (Mobil1 Super Synth 0W20 & OEM filter)
Plugs replaced @ ~56,000 miles
Fuel: 98 octane (quality - only few of gas stations, that has good fuel).
Maintenances every ~6,500 miles since plugs at 56,000 miles.
He is never pushed hard, keeping in perfect condition and WTF comes up...
---
Scheduled dealership visit, came for check... paid 100US$ for hour of work, they popped DTC #P0306 - 6th Cylinder misfire, and diagnosed improper fuel data in one of the blocks.
This seems like a carbon buildup? or there is a chance the oil/fuel addon checmicals caused it, that lexus suggested to add ? (the chemicals bought from them as well).
Need help !!! Dealer asking for $$$ to wash inside engine through plugs holes.
How we deal? I have read a lot about direct injection and carbon buildup, still can not get whether it is carbon buildup...
ANY HELP WILL BE APPRECIATED!
THANK YOU, GUYS!!
I will be happy if any of you working in lexus and/or can advice anything on solution.
--
Eventually, few months before i got CEL & TRAC OFF.
First CEL was blinking for few seconds on high speed, like 180km/h, later it began on 100-110km/h..
After few times, the CEL came up and won't dim until i stop the car for moment...
Last time (last friday) the CEL & TRAC came to stay.
---
Model IS250 Fsport 2012.
Mileage: ~70,000 miles
Latest maintenance: ~1300 miles (Mobil1 Super Synth 0W20 & OEM filter)
Plugs replaced @ ~56,000 miles
Fuel: 98 octane (quality - only few of gas stations, that has good fuel).
Maintenances every ~6,500 miles since plugs at 56,000 miles.
He is never pushed hard, keeping in perfect condition and WTF comes up...
---
Scheduled dealership visit, came for check... paid 100US$ for hour of work, they popped DTC #P0306 - 6th Cylinder misfire, and diagnosed improper fuel data in one of the blocks.
This seems like a carbon buildup? or there is a chance the oil/fuel addon checmicals caused it, that lexus suggested to add ? (the chemicals bought from them as well).
Need help !!! Dealer asking for $$$ to wash inside engine through plugs holes.
How we deal? I have read a lot about direct injection and carbon buildup, still can not get whether it is carbon buildup...
ANY HELP WILL BE APPRECIATED!
THANK YOU, GUYS!!
03-22-16, 05:46 AM
#3
Pole Position
2012 don't have the carbon buildup issue. I was solved a few years before that (2008 - 2009 I believe)
Isn't the car still under warranty? Might only be powertrain though.
Did you check the spark plugs? It can be caused by bad sparking, bad air/fuel mix and/or bad engine compression... Sounds like an expensive issue. Is your engine shaking? Idling rough?
How much are they charging for the ''wash''?
Isn't the car still under warranty? Might only be powertrain though.
Did you check the spark plugs? It can be caused by bad sparking, bad air/fuel mix and/or bad engine compression... Sounds like an expensive issue. Is your engine shaking? Idling rough?
How much are they charging for the ''wash''?
Last edited by Eduskator; 03-22-16 at 05:50 AM.
03-22-16, 06:21 AM
#4
Rookie
Thread Starter
2012 don't have the carbon buildup issue. I was solved a few years before that (2008 - 2009 I believe)
Isn't the car still under warranty? Might only be powertrain though.
Did you check the spark plugs? It can be caused by bad sparking, bad air/fuel mix and/or bad engine compression... Sounds like an expensive issue. Is your engine shaking? Idling rough?
How much are they charging for the ''wash''?
Isn't the car still under warranty? Might only be powertrain though.
Did you check the spark plugs? It can be caused by bad sparking, bad air/fuel mix and/or bad engine compression... Sounds like an expensive issue. Is your engine shaking? Idling rough?
How much are they charging for the ''wash''?
--
I think it is spark plugs as well, i am going to service tomorrow to put the car for an engine wash and will stay there and check everything.
--
bad mix - could be caused by HKS Intake? ^_^ i have HKS Super Hybrid intake filter with FSport intake setup. But we have MAF sensor to control amounts of air getting in?
--
engine compression is another story - if it is compression, i'd rather sell him and never buy a lexus again.
--
They ask 700US$ for washing lower part (they inject some chemicals using spark plugs holes and leaving the car to work for hour, then replacing oil)
03-22-16, 07:36 AM
#5
Pole Position
It was a common issues with 2nd gen ISs, but it was solved in the late 2000s, so your model 2012 is OK. All affected ISs should have been serviced.
Bad intake? I don't think so, since yes, the computer controls the amount or air getting in.
700$ USD? Seems expensive, but again IDK how much labor that requires. When did you buy the car?
Lexus is the most reliable car brand out here...don't say you will never buy one again
Bad intake? I don't think so, since yes, the computer controls the amount or air getting in.
700$ USD? Seems expensive, but again IDK how much labor that requires. When did you buy the car?
Lexus is the most reliable car brand out here...don't say you will never buy one again
03-22-16, 08:33 AM
#6
Super Moderator
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection was that the change they made was to use revised piston rings to reduce the chance of engine damage from pieces of carbon that may break off, as opposed to a change that eliminates the possibility of carbon buildup in the first place.
03-22-16, 08:46 AM
#7
Pole Position
The carbon buildup TSIB applies to 2006-2010; the running change was made mid-way through the 2010 model year.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection was that the change they made was to use revised piston rings to reduce the chance of engine damage from pieces of carbon that may break off, as opposed to a change that eliminates the possibility of carbon buildup in the first place.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection was that the change they made was to use revised piston rings to reduce the chance of engine damage from pieces of carbon that may break off, as opposed to a change that eliminates the possibility of carbon buildup in the first place.
I guess it'll cost him 700$ to see if that was the issue.
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03-22-16, 01:12 PM
#8
Rookie
Thread Starter
Yeah, it will cost 700 usd for 4 hours of labor.
The car purchased January 2015, before warranty void. (i had enough time to replace headlight by warranty:-D)
--
About pistons carbon buildup - this is the cleaning they want to perform tomorrow is to eliminate any, but i am talking about intake valves carbon buildup that caused due to direct injection.
It means that port injection is washing carbon from pistons during injection and it gets thrown into cylinder and then away.
The direct injection is injecting fuel right into cylinder. Valve opens in the created hole fuel being injected, this way it is not cleaning the intake valves and there maybe carbon... one of causes for loosing compression is the intake valves not properly closed.
fix me if im wrong.
We will see tomorrow, they will not do anything before fully checking the small things like spark plugs, verify injectors spraying times and ignition coils, if these will be fine - then ill give the access to engine.
As mentioned in my first post, these things not occurred before switching plugs.
Also the carbon might built up on piston rings, due to bad quality oil (local dealer use some sh±t oil, not the one recommended by lexus). When asked which oil the put, they could not answer.... some japanese (this is their answer)
They also put 5w30 in is250, rather than 0w20 recommended by lexus int.
When i brought my own mobil1 super synth 0w20, they told me that maintenance is done on my own risk and they are not responsible for anything.
Thank you guys, for working out on the things.
Will also update later on progress.
The car purchased January 2015, before warranty void. (i had enough time to replace headlight by warranty:-D)
--
About pistons carbon buildup - this is the cleaning they want to perform tomorrow is to eliminate any, but i am talking about intake valves carbon buildup that caused due to direct injection.
It means that port injection is washing carbon from pistons during injection and it gets thrown into cylinder and then away.
The direct injection is injecting fuel right into cylinder. Valve opens in the created hole fuel being injected, this way it is not cleaning the intake valves and there maybe carbon... one of causes for loosing compression is the intake valves not properly closed.
fix me if im wrong.
We will see tomorrow, they will not do anything before fully checking the small things like spark plugs, verify injectors spraying times and ignition coils, if these will be fine - then ill give the access to engine.
As mentioned in my first post, these things not occurred before switching plugs.
Also the carbon might built up on piston rings, due to bad quality oil (local dealer use some sh±t oil, not the one recommended by lexus). When asked which oil the put, they could not answer.... some japanese (this is their answer)
They also put 5w30 in is250, rather than 0w20 recommended by lexus int.
When i brought my own mobil1 super synth 0w20, they told me that maintenance is done on my own risk and they are not responsible for anything.
Thank you guys, for working out on the things.
Will also update later on progress.
Last edited by leaderpvp; 03-22-16 at 01:18 PM.
03-23-16, 01:05 AM
#9
Rookie
Thread Starter
Ok, in service.
The plugs are black! The intake valves fully carboned, fully! They will not be able to fix it fully now, but they will try.
After hard arguing they accepted that they will show me everything...
Will update later.
The plugs are black! The intake valves fully carboned, fully! They will not be able to fix it fully now, but they will try.
After hard arguing they accepted that they will show me everything...
Will update later.
03-23-16, 07:16 AM
#10
Rookie
Thread Starter
They have cleaned upper engine and the fuel rations are not returned... they just slightly improved towards each other, but not completely back... (for this it requires to open engine clean/replace parts).
I have paid 700$ and told we don't know about any CSP regards carbon buildup, maybe Lexus America have it, but we belong to Lexus Europe, and if lexus europe is not providing such CSP - we will not repay you. Currently checking about existance of such CSP in europe. :-(
Otherwise they will return me 700$...
So that, i am selling him and getting something else with better reliability.
Lexus ofcourse might be one of most reliable cars, but not in case of IS line.
The data is measured, surprisingly with TechStream (not preassure gauge), tech stream measures on lambdas and o2 sensors, not such precise, i guess...
03-23-16, 07:23 PM
#11
Two things:
1. ALL cars with direct injection (only) have the carbon build-up problem to a greater or lesser extent.
2. If it is carbon build-up then this is a known issue with this engine (it's irrelevant what years the TSB says are affected if your car has it), so why are Lexus charging you for an known issue?
Sounds like you're not getting the kind of service that Lexus tout in their ads!
1. ALL cars with direct injection (only) have the carbon build-up problem to a greater or lesser extent.
2. If it is carbon build-up then this is a known issue with this engine (it's irrelevant what years the TSB says are affected if your car has it), so why are Lexus charging you for an known issue?
Sounds like you're not getting the kind of service that Lexus tout in their ads!
03-23-16, 07:56 PM
#12
The carbon buildup TSIB applies to 2006-2010; the running change was made mid-way through the 2010 model year.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection was that the change they made was to use revised piston rings to reduce the chance of engine damage from pieces of carbon that may break off, as opposed to a change that eliminates the possibility of carbon buildup in the first place.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection was that the change they made was to use revised piston rings to reduce the chance of engine damage from pieces of carbon that may break off, as opposed to a change that eliminates the possibility of carbon buildup in the first place.
03-24-16, 06:17 AM
#13
Rookie
Thread Starter
Two things:
1. ALL cars with direct injection (only) have the carbon build-up problem to a greater or lesser extent.
2. If it is carbon build-up then this is a known issue with this engine (it's irrelevant what years the TSB says are affected if your car has it), so why are Lexus charging you for an known issue?
Sounds like you're not getting the kind of service that Lexus tout in their ads!
1. ALL cars with direct injection (only) have the carbon build-up problem to a greater or lesser extent.
2. If it is carbon build-up then this is a known issue with this engine (it's irrelevant what years the TSB says are affected if your car has it), so why are Lexus charging you for an known issue?
Sounds like you're not getting the kind of service that Lexus tout in their ads!
confusing, yeah. you pay for the fix and then talk to lexus europe to resolve the problem, however i understand that nobody will return me the paid $$$, in a best case they will offer me some service for free...
Yes, known issue for them, knows causes, and they agree that this is a f***c with engine design.
03-24-16, 11:41 AM
#14
There were improvements made to the engine to help combat carbon build-up, but it still happens on newer cars and on IS350's (though to a significantly reduced amount, I haven't see any that had enough build-up to actually cause any issues).
Regardless of it being a known issue, if he is outside the warranty period and Lexus Europe has not extended coverage, of course he is going to need to pay to repair the car. That's just a part of car ownership. If Lexus Europe does end up offering some sort of assistance, that would definitely be appreciated, but I don't think it can be expected.
Jeff
Regardless of it being a known issue, if he is outside the warranty period and Lexus Europe has not extended coverage, of course he is going to need to pay to repair the car. That's just a part of car ownership. If Lexus Europe does end up offering some sort of assistance, that would definitely be appreciated, but I don't think it can be expected.
Jeff
03-24-16, 09:09 PM
#15
Thats total bull .You most likely have a bad ignition coil , . switch the ignition coil to another cylinder and c if the misfire move with the coil,if not your injector might be the problem. forget about carbon build up.