Braincake

Hi guys,

Since 2013 I am driving a 2007 IS250.
The car has about 62.000 miles on it and since some weeks (basically since it got cold) the engine started to make a clear knocking sound.
It can be described as a diesel sound and I found a video on YouTube with exactly this sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmbynU-YW2k#t=134

I went to my local Lexus dealer, where I also bought the car, and they did the following:

1. At the first visit they took the car and told me that 3 people listened to it and they didn't hear anything.
2. After picking up the car again I still heard the noise and made another appointment. This time, they listened to the car with cold engine and they told me that the problem was in the high-pressure fuel pump. Replacement would cost about 650 euros without guarantee that the noise will be gone.
They said that a noisy high-pressure fuel pump is no problem... (wut?!)

Last weekend I investigated the noise myself. It comes from the driver-side at the rear of the engine (the high-pressure fuel pump is on the passenger side!). When I listen with a screwdriver, it is very clear. The noise also exists when the engine is warm, but then it is less loud. It can be clearly heard when I push the throttle from 1000-2000 rpm (light load conditions).

I try to have a second opinion at an other mechanic and let him do a compression test as well.

As I read a lot of different opinions/stories about the IS250 having piston slap or cold start noises, it would be nice to hear from someone who had this same problem. I hope you can help me!

Just to be sure, it is not the second-long cold start rattle as known per TSIB and it is also not the VVT-i or injection system noise where IS250's are known for.
It is a diesel-like sound, identical to the sound on the YouTube video posted above.

Thanks a lot!

Taint3d

Its normal for a car to sound this way when its cold, mostly when its in the 30f or 0c range, or colder.. Id just run some fuel additive that has cleaners and lubricants to help with that alittle. Or so iv seen it help a tiny bit... So try that. Not sure where you from but in the states we have...





Try this out... Not much else you can do, unless you decide to try a diff car that doesnt have piston slap... I know my 2006 with 105k miles has it really bad when its cold, but goes away in the summer when its hot...

Braincake

Thanks for your reply!

It kind of eases my mind that it is not a big problem.
I already tried injector cleaner now, so I'm observing if it will work.

I live in Germany and it is now right above 0°C or 32°F.

To be sure I will await the results of the compression test and then talk to Lexus again.

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

Do you have the carbon build-up TSB for cars in Germany? Look up this issue on the forum here.

davidgz1

iTrader: (1)

I took mine in and they rebuilt the engine
But originally told me it was the cam gears

Braincake

I have seen posts about this, but I didn't find infos about if the TSB is valid in Europe.

It is true that my car didn't have a lot of highway miles lately though.
I tried to see if it worked to put the gear fixed in 3rd and drive with about 3000-4000 rpm for some time to blow the engine clean a bit. It seemed to not have any effect.
Apart from that I used the injector cleaner on my current filling and I am always using fuel with 95 octane.

@davidgz1: was it for exactly this sound?

davidgz1

iTrader: (1)

It only makes the noise in cold starts

The warrenty guy put it in a computer and said to rebuilt the engine
At first the said it was carbon build up then the can heats and then they said to rebuild the engine

Braincake

That sounds typically like a dealer, haha :P

Today, the compression of my engine will be measured, so I hope that will give me an answer.
The sound seems to be there as well now when the engine is warm

Taint3d

Its been super cold here too.. In South Dakota the high is 11F (-11.6c) and tonight its supposed to be around -15windchill (-26c). So trust me it gets quite cold.... What youmight want to do. is load up on the cleaner and go for a 600 mile drive... I did that this summer to the Rapid City, where it is super hilly and mountains everywhere.. So it really ran my engine hard.. I used seafoam for the drive out there, then filled the tank, ran that out and then put in the lucas oil sstuff to help lubricate the top parts of the engine.. Car really did run great afterwards.. Put over 1500 miles on in 5 days.

davidgz1

iTrader: (1)

R u sayin im the dealer ?

Braincake

No, the reading out of the computer and then acting is typically how dealers solve problems.
Their mechanics are often not so skilled to do it without step-by-step guide according to some error codes read out from the car.

Anyway, my dealer is not really consequent about what they say.
Yesterday I got a statement that there is nothing wrong with my car and then 10 minuntes after that they asked if I could come by to show them the noise again.

So the dealer already said the following:
1. We don't hear anything
2. It's the high pressure fuel pump
3. The car is fine
4. Come by to show us the noise

I don't know what they are trying to do, but it is making me really angry at the moment.
They just should stand for the (premium!) brand and solve this problem.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Braincake

So, for now, there seems to be no problem with the car.
I drove around with my mechanic and listened to an other IS250 and it seems like they all sound a bit raw/rough in winter days.

I filled it up with 100 octane fuel and some injector cleaner and I went to the Autobahn to blow the engine clean.
Hope it helps a bit.

Braincake

The car sounds like this now:

I am in a big conflict with my dealer, as after the 4th visit they keep saying that there is no problem.
I contacted Lexus Germany and they will try to solve it over a different dealer.
Apart from that I wrote an E-mail (took me 1,5 hrs) with ALL the failures my dealer has made.
I hope they get their *** kicked at least...

The mechanic didn't even know that the IS250 has a 4GR-FSE engine and he also told me that he looked into the PC and my car didn't show any problems so there is none... how can he diagnose such a problem then?
Damn idiots

Braincake

So, almost 4 months after I first discovered the noise in my IS250, I have anoher update.

At the moment, the noise is also present when the engine is at operating temperature.
It gets less loud, but is is still there, even after a sporty ride in the hills.

I have contacted Lexus Germany (the importer) and made a complaint about my dealer, who wasn't able to find the cause of the problem.
They suggested that I'd go to another dealer, which is 2,5 hours drive from where I live, to get the problem diagnosed.
I did so, drove the 2,5 hours there and 2,5 back and left the car there for 2 weeks.
They did "investigations" and a compression test.

After complaining about the mounted Joe-Z D-AFI intake pipe, which I told them was equal to the F-Sport (they didn't even know what F-Sport is!!!??) intake and that the car was "FAR FROM ORIGINAL!!", which it's actually not, apart from the Joe-Z intake, they told me that the car was OK.
Even Lexus Germany took over this statement and confirmed me that there is no problem at all with the car.

I didn't agree and called a professional engine rebuilding company (after sending them some videos of the sound) and they confirmed that it sounds like piston slap.
This kind of problem cannot be detected or measured from the outside, but only by disassembling the engine and looking (measuring) into the cylinders.
They estimated a repair to be over 5000 euros.

Now, the thing is, that my guarantee pays 1500 euros per repair for cars older than 7 years.
Guess what... my car turned 7 in december 2014!
This was after the noise was discovered, but they told me that the dealer told them it was a different problem.
So now I have to either take the 3500 (minimum) damage and let the engine be rebuilt, or take actions with firstly a certified company other then Lexus to make a diagnosis and secondly my lawyer.

However, I hope that I can sell the car and don't have to think about it anymore, because this is really eating my energy.

Dealarr

To necro this thread because like many others, i did suffer from rattling in my engine. You can change the Timing Chain tensioners yourself, here is a youtube Vid on how to take covers off:

The third timing chain tensioner is at the front of the engine, accessible after you take off the injector ECU with three 10mm nut and bolts. Behind a plate with 4 10mm bolts, held on with 2 10mm bolts. I can't remember if the top water mixer piece needs to be taken off in order to take injector ECU is necessary, as changing the waterpump on the IS250 i saw the plate to the timing chain tensioner. The problem is the tensioner has metal teeth, overtime it smooths out and it no longer tightens from 10k oil changes and carbon grinding, basically sandpapering the teeth away since they are hydraulic operated from said abrasives. So when your chain is moving and it hits the engine wall, it rattles. Look up the problem on youtube.
13540 is the 3rd one at the front, the top two are 13550, 13560A

ebay link to oem part

Try changing front one first, this one should be fairly easy than the top two. And usually the culprit since it controls the much longer chain, instead of the two short ones. Make sure you stuff a piece of cloth into the bottom of the recess once the plate is off, so when you uncrew the two bolts holding the tensioner, they can't fall in nor can the metal gasket, if it's stuck on the engine side. Rest is pretty easy. Might have to disconnect the top hose that feeds cold water from the bottom of the radiator, then remove injector ECU, then you will see the plate. Injecter ECU you can just swing to the side with the four connectors connected. No biggie. This is the easiest one to do, and again, the biggest culprit. Try this first before all else.

It looks super daunting to change but once you get the hang of it, it's like lego. Just do preventative measures like epoxying 5mm hex bits onto the intake surge tank screws because with repeated use on them with an impact driver, they can strip. Get a screw box to help with screws, take a picture if you want and leave all the screws in a spot for that picture for eg. Visualise the whole process, then you can work out your tools and what you need to do. Youtube as much as you can, learn from the best and the worst, then you will know everything.

PS: you can also tighten the bolts on your cam gears while you are at it, if those are coming loose with valve cover off, intake cam gears etc.