New tires and wheel alignment questions
09-08-10, 05:20 PM
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New tires and wheel alignment questions
I have a 2008 IS350 with 19K miles. I need to replace the front tires due to a good deal of wear on the insides only. They are on 18" wheels if that matters. I understand this is common for this car and I'm probably doing very well having 19K miles on the front tires and only just getting down to the wear indicators on the insides. Damn shame though, the rest of the tires look like new.
Anyway, after comparing the dealers prices and Tirerack for original Bridgstone tires, I bought online. I'll let the dealer install, mount and balance them.
Then comes the question of alignment. The car still drives like heaven, no pulling one way or the other, very smooth. Request opinions please:
1) If this inner tire wear is considered "normal" for this car, is there any reason I should drop money on an alignment when performance , handling, lack of road noise, etc. all seem great?
2) I suspect the factory alignes the car with "excessive" toe-out for performance reasons. Will a dealer shop typically align the car to factory specs or align it with less toe-out for longer tire wear but poorer steering performance? I do not want to sacrifice performance for $.
3) I've had bad experiances with wheel alignments on previous cars. Both my TransAm and GTO drove straight with the wheel pointed straight from the factory. After my first alignment with both, the steering when would be ever so slightly off center when driving straight. They never could get it right. Drove me crazy. Can a Lexus mechanic perform a wheel alignment without giving me the car back with the wheel off-center or some other problem?
Thanks,
John
Anyway, after comparing the dealers prices and Tirerack for original Bridgstone tires, I bought online. I'll let the dealer install, mount and balance them.
Then comes the question of alignment. The car still drives like heaven, no pulling one way or the other, very smooth. Request opinions please:
1) If this inner tire wear is considered "normal" for this car, is there any reason I should drop money on an alignment when performance , handling, lack of road noise, etc. all seem great?
2) I suspect the factory alignes the car with "excessive" toe-out for performance reasons. Will a dealer shop typically align the car to factory specs or align it with less toe-out for longer tire wear but poorer steering performance? I do not want to sacrifice performance for $.
3) I've had bad experiances with wheel alignments on previous cars. Both my TransAm and GTO drove straight with the wheel pointed straight from the factory. After my first alignment with both, the steering when would be ever so slightly off center when driving straight. They never could get it right. Drove me crazy. Can a Lexus mechanic perform a wheel alignment without giving me the car back with the wheel off-center or some other problem?
Thanks,
John
09-08-10, 05:25 PM
#2
I thought we had more toe in... I can be wrong.
I suspect that most dealers will align it to "factory" specs with the toe settings that gives it more handling. U can try telling them you want neutral toe (zero) to save tire wear.
U can take it to any good tire / wheel shop to align it without the additional toe settings. Just beware that some tire shops only checks for the green light (within a range) to adjust alignments. Those should be watched because they don't really know what's going and only do things according to the alignment machine.
A good shop will align it right...
I suspect that most dealers will align it to "factory" specs with the toe settings that gives it more handling. U can try telling them you want neutral toe (zero) to save tire wear.
U can take it to any good tire / wheel shop to align it without the additional toe settings. Just beware that some tire shops only checks for the green light (within a range) to adjust alignments. Those should be watched because they don't really know what's going and only do things according to the alignment machine.
A good shop will align it right...
09-08-10, 06:15 PM
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https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...alignment.html
Most have too much toe-out, including mine. I myself am on the hunt to find a "neutral" toe setting to get even wear.
Most have too much toe-out, including mine. I myself am on the hunt to find a "neutral" toe setting to get even wear.
09-08-10, 07:48 PM
#4
You're wasting a ton of money doing any of this through the dealer (including getting new tires put on)
The original bridgestones kinda suck too, but if you've already ordered then too late I guess...
Anyway, if you actually want to fix the problem with the tires you need to find an alignment shop in your area where they actually understand how alignment works, rather than just throwing it on a machine and doing what the machine tells them (which will be to set it to the factory alignment that destroys inner front tires).
Do that, they'll be able to fix the excessive toe out the cars come with, and your problem will be gone.
This will probably, slightly, reduce the turn-in handling of the car. But it'll add 50-100% more lifespan to your tires.
If you're fine replacing every 15-20k and really want the original tires on there again then just stick with your plan again, and the dealer'll probably be willing to check the alignment free since you're gonna overpay him anyway to put the tires on. If it's off then he'll set it back to the problematic factory defaults but if that's what you want he'll certainly do it for you.
(and yes, you did well to only be to the wear indicators at 19k... mine were basically shredded on the front insides just under 18k when I replaced em... they were kinda frightening looking at that point honestly.)
The original bridgestones kinda suck too, but if you've already ordered then too late I guess...
Anyway, if you actually want to fix the problem with the tires you need to find an alignment shop in your area where they actually understand how alignment works, rather than just throwing it on a machine and doing what the machine tells them (which will be to set it to the factory alignment that destroys inner front tires).
Do that, they'll be able to fix the excessive toe out the cars come with, and your problem will be gone.
This will probably, slightly, reduce the turn-in handling of the car. But it'll add 50-100% more lifespan to your tires.
If you're fine replacing every 15-20k and really want the original tires on there again then just stick with your plan again, and the dealer'll probably be willing to check the alignment free since you're gonna overpay him anyway to put the tires on. If it's off then he'll set it back to the problematic factory defaults but if that's what you want he'll certainly do it for you.
(and yes, you did well to only be to the wear indicators at 19k... mine were basically shredded on the front insides just under 18k when I replaced em... they were kinda frightening looking at that point honestly.)
09-08-10, 09:15 PM
#7
maybe less if you have those crappy Turanzas. with only UTQG rating of 140 and depending on how you drive, you may get 20-25K. i swapped mine at 2K for Potenza RE760 Sport. much better tire with a UTQG rating of 340, half the price of the OE's, and what should have come on the car from the factory.
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09-08-10, 11:46 PM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
You're wasting a ton of money doing any of this through the dealer (including getting new tires put on)
The original bridgestones kinda suck too, but if you've already ordered then too late I guess...
Anyway, if you actually want to fix the problem with the tires you need to find an alignment shop in your area where they actually understand how alignment works, rather than just throwing it on a machine and doing what the machine tells them (which will be to set it to the factory alignment that destroys inner front tires).
Do that, they'll be able to fix the excessive toe out the cars come with, and your problem will be gone.
This will probably, slightly, reduce the turn-in handling of the car. But it'll add 50-100% more lifespan to your tires.
If you're fine replacing every 15-20k and really want the original tires on there again then just stick with your plan again, and the dealer'll probably be willing to check the alignment free since you're gonna overpay him anyway to put the tires on. If it's off then he'll set it back to the problematic factory defaults but if that's what you want he'll certainly do it for you.
(and yes, you did well to only be to the wear indicators at 19k... mine were basically shredded on the front insides just under 18k when I replaced em... they were kinda frightening looking at that point honestly.)
The original bridgestones kinda suck too, but if you've already ordered then too late I guess...
Anyway, if you actually want to fix the problem with the tires you need to find an alignment shop in your area where they actually understand how alignment works, rather than just throwing it on a machine and doing what the machine tells them (which will be to set it to the factory alignment that destroys inner front tires).
Do that, they'll be able to fix the excessive toe out the cars come with, and your problem will be gone.
This will probably, slightly, reduce the turn-in handling of the car. But it'll add 50-100% more lifespan to your tires.
If you're fine replacing every 15-20k and really want the original tires on there again then just stick with your plan again, and the dealer'll probably be willing to check the alignment free since you're gonna overpay him anyway to put the tires on. If it's off then he'll set it back to the problematic factory defaults but if that's what you want he'll certainly do it for you.
(and yes, you did well to only be to the wear indicators at 19k... mine were basically shredded on the front insides just under 18k when I replaced em... they were kinda frightening looking at that point honestly.)
09-09-10, 10:45 AM
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09-09-10, 10:54 AM
#11
When you say, "slightly reduce turn-in," can you elaborate on what exactly that means? Are we talking the time it takes from when you turn your steering wheel to the time the wheels actually start responding to the input? I want to fix my premature wear but not clear on what the forced adjustments will cause.
Like freeway exits, most cars will handle up to 50 mph for sharp turns before their suspension breaks loose and you hear tires squeeling all over the place.
Our cars can take the turn at 60 -70 mph will slight chirping. That's assumed if you keep the factory adjustments with extra toe and camber.
This also depends on your corner "line" to the apex of the corner. Eveything after that is turn out or exiting the corner.
perhaps an auto-cross expert can chime in...
I'm not a real expert. I admit I learned all this from Gran Turismo. 
09-09-10, 02:35 PM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
I think he meant when you are entering a corner. Most cars would have to slow down before making a sharp turn. Cars with tuned suspension can enter the corner faster (turn with a faster speed).
Like freeway exits, most cars will handle up to 50 mph for sharp turns before their suspension breaks loose and you hear tires squeeling all over the place.
Our cars can take the turn at 60 -70 mph will slight chirping. That's assumed if you keep the factory adjustments with extra toe and camber.
This also depends on your corner "line" to the apex of the corner. Eveything after that is turn out or exiting the corner.
perhaps an auto-cross expert can chime in... I'm not a real expert. I admit I learned all this from Gran Turismo.
Like freeway exits, most cars will handle up to 50 mph for sharp turns before their suspension breaks loose and you hear tires squeeling all over the place.
Our cars can take the turn at 60 -70 mph will slight chirping. That's assumed if you keep the factory adjustments with extra toe and camber.
This also depends on your corner "line" to the apex of the corner. Eveything after that is turn out or exiting the corner.
perhaps an auto-cross expert can chime in...
I'm not a real expert. I admit I learned all this from Gran Turismo. YES! I'd really like to hear more about the negative effects of adjusting the alignment to prevent tire wear.
09-09-10, 08:09 PM
#13
This describes the "advantages" of toe-in (stability) or toe-out (quicker turning, which is why they're set that way from the factory on the 2IS... and why it destroys the inner front tires in 15-20k miles on most cars).
09-09-10, 09:04 PM
#14
When you say, "slightly reduce turn-in," can you elaborate on what exactly that means? Are we talking the time it takes from when you turn your steering wheel to the time the wheels actually start responding to the input? I want to fix my premature wear but not clear on what the forced adjustments will cause.
09-09-10, 11:41 PM
#15
You really should seek alternative means of alignment for your car as others mentioned. Factory / dealer specs will keep wearing your tires the same, it is possible though to lessen the toe-out and extend the life spam of your tires to wear a lot more evenly hence giving you more value for your money.
Although many would argue that lessening the toe-out will affect your performance, I can tell you from my own experience that unless you're extremely sensitive to alignment modifications you won't feel a difference. I can still rip through turns like nobodys business. That being said I changed my front OEM tires out at around 24k and the replacement Nitto Invo's at 36k due to potholes and glass, when I replaced them the inner tire was already showing excessive wear. Of course this was with OEM alignment.
I am now creeping up on 70k with custom alignment settings for less toe-out and I still see my tires holding out till before the winter here in SoCal. So in reality you gain more than lose by getting a well done alignment, you're basically looking at 10k + gain in tire life.
Edit: Chiming in in terms of "performance loss" I tracked my car with stock suspension and less toe-out specs and did not experience any loss in performance when taking the turns at very fast speeds basically power sliding the car through the apex. Same goes for the ocational spirited driving with my stock suspension and custom toe-out, on "empty roads only" I've been able to take the turns at almost twice the marked suggested speed. So unless you track your car everyday and or go to work like the new 2011 IS commercial then I don't see a problem with you having a more conservative alignment spec.
Although many would argue that lessening the toe-out will affect your performance, I can tell you from my own experience that unless you're extremely sensitive to alignment modifications you won't feel a difference. I can still rip through turns like nobodys business. That being said I changed my front OEM tires out at around 24k and the replacement Nitto Invo's at 36k due to potholes and glass, when I replaced them the inner tire was already showing excessive wear. Of course this was with OEM alignment.
I am now creeping up on 70k with custom alignment settings for less toe-out and I still see my tires holding out till before the winter here in SoCal. So in reality you gain more than lose by getting a well done alignment, you're basically looking at 10k + gain in tire life.
Edit: Chiming in in terms of "performance loss" I tracked my car with stock suspension and less toe-out specs and did not experience any loss in performance when taking the turns at very fast speeds basically power sliding the car through the apex. Same goes for the ocational spirited driving with my stock suspension and custom toe-out, on "empty roads only" I've been able to take the turns at almost twice the marked suggested speed. So unless you track your car everyday and or go to work like the new 2011 IS commercial then I don't see a problem with you having a more conservative alignment spec.
Last edited by XhyDra; 09-09-10 at 11:53 PM.
