IS 350 vs Acura TL
11-05-09, 07:43 PM
#31
acura has done many things right as a luxury japanese brand, especially porting over the same ownership experience and reliability from its parent brand (good fuel economy too). unfortunately, the excitement of driving experience never made it past the type-r series, the s2000, and the nsx. imo this absence is glaringly present in the TL.
while the TL is a much bigger and more spacious car, remember that it was fwd, and thus no transfer/rear axles and rear differential to take up space in the back. sure, it was roomier, but then there's the inherent issue w/ fwd: torque steer. until acura began to offer sh-awd in the new TL's, that was its achilles' heel. even a limited slip differential couldn't fix the torque steer. there was just no way it could imitate the type of handling offered by the rwd variants of the is/2is or the g35/37.
so even though they've finally addressed the torque steer issue w/ sh-awd, another issue has manifested itself: the current exterior styling of the TL is - and apologies if this offends, but this is imo - appalling. at one point in its design iteration it was actually attractive, but it's gone completely southbound with this generation. all its high-tech functions, roominess, and safety ratings can't save it from its exterior styling.
while acura has done an admirable job competing in this segment against the 2is and the g37, there are other issues it needs to address before the TL can even convert 2is or G35/37 owners.
while the TL is a much bigger and more spacious car, remember that it was fwd, and thus no transfer/rear axles and rear differential to take up space in the back. sure, it was roomier, but then there's the inherent issue w/ fwd: torque steer. until acura began to offer sh-awd in the new TL's, that was its achilles' heel. even a limited slip differential couldn't fix the torque steer. there was just no way it could imitate the type of handling offered by the rwd variants of the is/2is or the g35/37.
so even though they've finally addressed the torque steer issue w/ sh-awd, another issue has manifested itself: the current exterior styling of the TL is - and apologies if this offends, but this is imo - appalling. at one point in its design iteration it was actually attractive, but it's gone completely southbound with this generation. all its high-tech functions, roominess, and safety ratings can't save it from its exterior styling.
while acura has done an admirable job competing in this segment against the 2is and the g37, there are other issues it needs to address before the TL can even convert 2is or G35/37 owners.
+ 1 on that
wow i would hate to have a debate with you lol id feel dumb
11-05-09, 08:24 PM
#32
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the 07+ TL-S is slower than the is350/with traction control on... However I almost bought a TL-S because of its sporty interior (two tone) and manual transmission. Couple things that turned me off was how slow it was, FWD, and still uses a key to turn on ign (lol). The new 2010 TL are even slower than the previous model TL-S, it may be due the fact that they got much bigger which means heavier. So... basiclly you will beat any TL that is still factory.
11-05-09, 11:05 PM
#33
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that's not the point (and yes, i do agree rwd > fwd for many performance measures). perhaps it's subjective, but their manual transmissions have better feel.. and their automatic in sport mode/paddle shift keeps whatever gear u select just like a manual, unlike our 2is which is still "automatic" sans upper gears
11-05-09, 11:50 PM
#34
that's not the point (and yes, i do agree rwd > fwd for many performance measures). perhaps it's subjective, but their manual transmissions have better feel.. and their automatic in sport mode/paddle shift keeps whatever gear u select just like a manual, unlike our 2is which is still "automatic" sans upper gears
but as far as the automatic transmission in the TL is concerned and the ability to "hold" gears, if anything, that's part of the programming of the TCU (transmission control unit) and has nothing to do with the "quality" (read: feel) of the transmission itself. i'm sure if toyota wanted to, they could allow manipulation/alteration of the TCU codes to not only create a more realistic paddle-shifting/tiptronic auto tranny but to make the 2is transmission shift faster (albeit w/ reliability issues). it's unfortunate that the TCU isn't crackable, but you can imagine the possibilities if it was.
don't get me wrong; this is not to label the TL as an inferior car. i've test-driven one and found it certainly capable, and i can see its appeal. however, compared against the is350 or the g37, there are simply other more glaring issues it needs to address.
11-05-09, 11:55 PM
#35
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The TL-S is a fantastic vehicle. For this thread, in a race, its a step slower than the IS 350. The TL-S is a mid to high 5 second car. The IS 350 is a high 4 to low 5 second car.
The only Acura ever made that is faster than an IS 350 would be the NSX. Outside of that, nothing they have built can match the IS 350.
The only Acura ever made that is faster than an IS 350 would be the NSX. Outside of that, nothing they have built can match the IS 350.
11-06-09, 08:36 AM
#36
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The TL-S is a fantastic vehicle. For this thread, in a race, its a step slower than the IS 350. The TL-S is a mid to high 5 second car. The IS 350 is a high 4 to low 5 second car.
The only Acura ever made that is faster than an IS 350 would be the NSX. Outside of that, nothing they have built can match the IS 350.
The only Acura ever made that is faster than an IS 350 would be the NSX. Outside of that, nothing they have built can match the IS 350.
Irrespective of how fast the TL is, one cannot outrun ugly.
11-06-09, 09:19 AM
#37
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https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...racetrack.html
Just because something is rwd does not mean it automatically handles better then a fwd car.
I have only seen a TL-S tested once in the 0-60 department which was by Road and Track and it was at 5.7 seconds. Thing is a 6 speed regular TL with 258SAEhp has tested at 5.6-5.7 seconds numerous times so I am sure more tests could get better times with the TL-S which has a larger engine, more torque and 28 more hp then the regular TL 6 speed.
There have been several tests of the IS350 and while it has done 0-60 in 4.9 sec and 5.1 it also did several in 5.6 seconds to 6 seconds which means the difference may not be as big as some think. If the guy gets a good launch with the TL-S and the launch is not perfect with the IS350 the TL-S has a good chance of coming even or winning. Still if launches are about even the IS350 should be a little quicker. On a road course the TL-S would most likely win.
The new awd TL with a 6 speed has done 0-60 in 5.2 seconds in just 1 test so it would be much closer to the IS.
11-06-09, 10:14 AM
#38
The IS350 does not handle better then a TL-S. Just look at the results of the road course where the larger, heavier fwd TL-S with less hp is 2 seconds faster then a IS350 and a G35. That shows while the TL-S may not be faster in a straight line then a IS350, it does handle a good deal better then a IS which is lighter, rwd, with more hp.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...racetrack.html
Just because something is rwd does not mean it automatically handles better then a fwd car.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...racetrack.html
Just because something is rwd does not mean it automatically handles better then a fwd car.
The TL-S was a manual with a mechanical LSD versus the IS350 which is, of course, an auto without a real LSD.
Go try that with an automatic TL-S (which I think doesn't get the LSD, not sure on that part though) and I suspect you'll get different results.
Further, as Lobuxracer pointed out in that thread, the cars weren't on the same tires which could easily make up the difference in times alone.
Also in that thread is the road and track testing done on the three cars with the IS350 turning in the best slalom times, so it's hardly correct to claim the TL can "handle a good deal better then a IS"
At best you can say the TL-S does surprisingly well for a FWD car. But there's a reason you don't see FWD in serious racing.
Not sure where you get 5.2 for the AWD TL-
http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/g...7-journey.html
6.7 seconds 0-60
Or over here:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=2
6.3 seconds
The AWD version is a heavy boat, since Acura refuses to put a proper RWD transmission in a car it wants to be sporty.
11-06-09, 12:27 PM
#39
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it kinda does when comparing apples to apples.
The TL-S was a manual with a mechanical LSD versus the IS350 which is, of course, an auto without a real LSD.
Go try that with an automatic TL-S (which I think doesn't get the LSD, not sure on that part though) and I suspect you'll get different results.
Further, as Lobuxracer pointed out in that thread, the cars weren't on the same tires which could easily make up the difference in times alone.
Also in that thread is the road and track testing done on the three cars with the IS350 turning in the best slalom times, so it's hardly correct to claim the TL can "handle a good deal better then a IS"
At best you can say the TL-S does surprisingly well for a FWD car. But there's a reason you don't see FWD in serious racing.
Not sure where you get 5.2 for the AWD TL-
http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/g...7-journey.html
6.7 seconds 0-60
Or over here:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=2
6.3 seconds
The AWD version is a heavy boat, since Acura refuses to put a proper RWD transmission in a car it wants to be sporty.
The TL-S was a manual with a mechanical LSD versus the IS350 which is, of course, an auto without a real LSD.
Go try that with an automatic TL-S (which I think doesn't get the LSD, not sure on that part though) and I suspect you'll get different results.
Further, as Lobuxracer pointed out in that thread, the cars weren't on the same tires which could easily make up the difference in times alone.
Also in that thread is the road and track testing done on the three cars with the IS350 turning in the best slalom times, so it's hardly correct to claim the TL can "handle a good deal better then a IS"
At best you can say the TL-S does surprisingly well for a FWD car. But there's a reason you don't see FWD in serious racing.
Not sure where you get 5.2 for the AWD TL-
http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/g...7-journey.html
6.7 seconds 0-60
Or over here:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=2
6.3 seconds
The AWD version is a heavy boat, since Acura refuses to put a proper RWD transmission in a car it wants to be sporty.
It is a bit muddled exactly what tires were used and if there was any advantage in that test but the TL-S I believe was equipped with the standard OEM REO 30 tires and not the optional Max performance summer tires. The IS I believe had the Max summer performance REO 50 series tires which would give it an advantage over the TL-S. The TL-S had no advantage in the tire department and was actually disadvantaged. They would not have done a comparison with cars with vastly different tire setups so I am sure they were equipped very similarly tire wise. The TL-S would have been even quicker if it was equipped with the optional max performance summer tires. There were 2 tests in that thread , one with the standard OEM TL-S tires that was 2 seconds quicker then the IS and G and one with the optional higher performance summer tires that was ever faster but apparently on a different track/course.
There are racing series with fwd cars, the TSX competes in the Speed World Challenge in the Touring Car category which is fwd and it has won several times.
http://i-motoracing.com/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_World_Challenge
The new automatic TL has done 0-60 in 5.9 seconds, one of the main reasons for the bad times are not launching it properly. You can not brake torque the new TL or it will start in second gear slowing times. Still the TL is a big car and heavy with awd and not as quick as some of its smaller lighter rwd rivals.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=2
The only test of a 6 speed awd TL recently was 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
Acura does not put a rwd "Drivetrain" in the TL, not a rwd transmission.
11-06-09, 01:00 PM
#40
lets say the handling is a TAD bit beter on paper then thje G or the is350... the difference is so minimal that it doesent even matter, if u have either one of these as a DD you gonna be sprinting around corners and shi.t often ?? the is350 is an over all BETTER machine then the TL-S not that the TL-s isnt nice(09's and up ugly tho)
instead of all this bs talk about handling and all this garbage jus race ur buddy already , smoke him ,post it on here so everyone can be quiet.
edit: NSX faster then is350??? i thought it was only around 280 hp
instead of all this bs talk about handling and all this garbage jus race ur buddy already , smoke him ,post it on here so everyone can be quiet.
edit: NSX faster then is350??? i thought it was only around 280 hp
Last edited by L-S-D; 11-06-09 at 01:12 PM.
11-06-09, 01:20 PM
#41
There's no merit to the argument that if you'd done an apples-to-apples comparison of an automatic 350 to an automatic TL that the results would have been different? And there's no merit because they didn't test it?
I'm really not following that logic.
Quoting "tire class" really doesn't tell you anything. Tires from a "worse" class can outperform ones in a higher class especially in different conditions, and obviously some in the same class do better than others too.
The Turanzas on my IS350 from the factory state they are summer performance tires on the window sticker (with the warning about how fast they'll wear out), but they're complete crap. I suspect I'd pick up a lot more than 2 seconds on a track lap time just from changing them once they're worn out.
A proper test would've used the same tires on all 3 cars.
It would've also tried to equip them as similarly as possible too (so auto transmissions across the board).
I'm really not following that logic.
It is a bit muddled exactly what tires were used and if there was any advantage in that test but the TL-S I believe was equipped with the standard OEM REO 30 tires and not the optional Max performance summer tires. The IS I believe had the Max summer performance REO 50 series tires which would give it an advantage over the TL-S. The TL-S had no advantage in the tire department and was actually disadvantaged.
The Turanzas on my IS350 from the factory state they are summer performance tires on the window sticker (with the warning about how fast they'll wear out), but they're complete crap. I suspect I'd pick up a lot more than 2 seconds on a track lap time just from changing them once they're worn out.
A proper test would've used the same tires on all 3 cars.
It would've also tried to equip them as similarly as possible too (so auto transmissions across the board).
11-06-09, 01:25 PM
#42
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Posts: n/a
The IS350 does not handle better then a TL-S. Just look at the results of the road course where the larger, heavier fwd TL-S with less hp is 2 seconds faster then a IS350 and a G35. That shows while the TL-S may not be faster in a straight line then a IS350, it does handle a good deal better then a IS which is lighter, rwd, with more hp.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...racetrack.html
Just because something is rwd does not mean it automatically handles better then a fwd car.
I have only seen a TL-S tested once in the 0-60 department which was by Road and Track and it was at 5.7 seconds. Thing is a 6 speed regular TL with 258SAEhp has tested at 5.6-5.7 seconds numerous times so I am sure more tests could get better times with the TL-S which has a larger engine, more torque and 28 more hp then the regular TL 6 speed.
There have been several tests of the IS350 and while it has done 0-60 in 4.9 sec and 5.1 it also did several in 5.6 seconds to 6 seconds which means the difference may not be as big as some think. If the guy gets a good launch with the TL-S and the launch is not perfect with the IS350 the TL-S has a good chance of coming even or winning. Still if launches are about even the IS350 should be a little quicker. On a road course the TL-S would most likely win.
The new awd TL with a 6 speed has done 0-60 in 5.2 seconds in just 1 test so it would be much closer to the IS.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...racetrack.html
Just because something is rwd does not mean it automatically handles better then a fwd car.
I have only seen a TL-S tested once in the 0-60 department which was by Road and Track and it was at 5.7 seconds. Thing is a 6 speed regular TL with 258SAEhp has tested at 5.6-5.7 seconds numerous times so I am sure more tests could get better times with the TL-S which has a larger engine, more torque and 28 more hp then the regular TL 6 speed.
There have been several tests of the IS350 and while it has done 0-60 in 4.9 sec and 5.1 it also did several in 5.6 seconds to 6 seconds which means the difference may not be as big as some think. If the guy gets a good launch with the TL-S and the launch is not perfect with the IS350 the TL-S has a good chance of coming even or winning. Still if launches are about even the IS350 should be a little quicker. On a road course the TL-S would most likely win.
The new awd TL with a 6 speed has done 0-60 in 5.2 seconds in just 1 test so it would be much closer to the IS.
Having driven an IS 350 F-sport at the track, I doubt a TL-S could match it. It handled SUPERBLY.
As I stated, the TL-S is a fantastic car and one I recommend all the time.
As for the new TL, sure its a good car but who cares, look at it. Also length wise
IS-180 inches long 3500 lbs
TL-S -189 inches long 3600 lbs
TL-SH-AWD 194 inches long. Its also wide at 74 inches. 4000 lbs
Finally we have tons of data of people taking the IS to the track and the dragstrip. I've even seen some TL-S owners take their cars there. I have yet to see or read any new TL at the track or drag strip. So why even argue about it? Owners don't drive them like previous TL owners or like IS owners. It really has moved to the ES/Buick side of the equation.
Last edited by LexFather; 11-06-09 at 01:36 PM.
11-06-09, 01:41 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
