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Suspension Dilemma

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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 09:14 PM
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Default Suspension Dilemma

not sure whether this should be moved. sorry mods if it should be.

It's time for me to change my suspension but I am confused as in what to do. Ideally I want to get the Tanabe coilovers however I do not want to void my warranty. So, the other option for me is to get the IS-F springs and shocks (which costs more than the coils apparently). However, for me to keep the warranty, I'd have to get it installed at Lexus, which costs a ridiculous amount (according to a previous thread). I currently have the sport suspension, but it sits way too high. Having the sport shocks, is it sufficient enough to just buy the is-f springs?

also, has anyone had problems with warranty issues having an aftermarket suspension on their car? i don't want to get hassled or neglected for certain issues just because of aftermarket coilovers. mainly, im just worried about warranty issues if i were to put on coilovers and im debating if its worth the hassle if or when the time comes for me to bring the car in for another random recall or some malfunction to my suspension. any suggestions would be appreciated or experiences with dealerships if you have aftermarket suspension on your car. Thanks guys.
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 09:44 PM
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honestly, i think you're thinking about it too much.

do what you want to your car and don't think you are only limited to what your dealer wants you to do, or doesn't want you to do to YOUR car...

i've been to my dealer a couple times since i got my coilovers and they actually like it!! they say "the majority of lexus owners are either women or older men...both of whom do not mod their cars..."

so seeing my lowered car with some wheels actually brings them smiles.

oh, and you don't have to worry about any warranty issues with aftermarket suspension.
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chrIS250
oh, and you don't have to worry about any warranty issues with aftermarket suspension.
Whys that?
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 09:52 PM
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worst comes to worst. install oem suspension back in if all fails. dont worry about it. get coils. said and done.
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 09:53 PM
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if there are no warranty issues with aftermarket suspension why do people get the isf springs and shocks installed at the dealer? people have told me its for peace of mind, so there's got to be something im missing.

and with ur mods, i think a lot of people would be smiling if they saw ur car.
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by iialcii
worst comes to worst. install oem suspension back in if all fails. dont worry about it. get coils. said and done.
don't they note in the computer that i have an aftermarket suspension in my car if i were to bring it in to lexus.
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DoTheDrew
if there are no warranty issues with aftermarket suspension why do people get the isf springs and shocks installed at the dealer? people have told me its for peace of mind, so there's got to be something im missing.

and with ur mods, i think a lot of people would be smiling if they saw ur car.
LOL

i think you're mixing isf with f-sport springs...but people just choose to have them done their because it sort of keeps the car fresh having it done at a lexus dealer and not at some shop...it's more of a quality issue.

while others (like myself) choose to save the ridiculous cost of installation and do everything themselves...

before i had my coilovers, i installed the TEIN S-Techs in my garage...then bought the coils, took off the S-Techs, put back stock springs on stock struts...then just threw them in the corner.

but again, rarely will you run into warranty issues with an aftermarket suspension...
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 10:02 PM
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sorry i meant f sport. i am more than willing to install them myself if i were to purchase the f sport springs (i did my gsr and a few other hondas, however i may have trouble with a lexus, thank god for the DIY threads) but to my knowledge, if you didn't have it installed at lexus, then you get no warranty.
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 10:14 PM
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Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact
You'll often hear this myth regarding hacking or modding your car: it automatically cancels your warranty. Don't believe it as gospel. Sure, changing the windshield wiper blades can't cause the transmission to break, but your warranty won't allow you to do whatever you want to your car.

Warranty requirements
When it comes to new car warranties, automotive owners and enthusiasts have a very important lobbying body on their side, namely SEMA (the Specialty Equipment Market Association). SEMA represents the aftermarket manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, and distributors in North America. Because this association of aftermarket parts suppliers has a vested interest in the continued sale of aftermarket parts, it has helped to keep new car manufacturers in check by successfully lobbying for legislation that prevents new car dealership service providers from denying warranty coverage, for example in a seized motor, because you chose to use those snazzy aftermarket carbon fiber windshield wipers instead of the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts sold through their parts/service departments.

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
The relevant legislation here, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975, protects consumers from being wrongfully denied warranty coverage by new car dealers.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c):
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if —

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefore.

Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.

Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.

Specifically, the rules and regulations adopted by the FTC to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states:
No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.

Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.

That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. As an example, all cars manufactured after 1994 are equipped with OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) ports that dealers use to read engine diagnostic codes for everything from an engine vacuum leak to a malfunctioning emissions system. If your chosen modification has compromised the dealer service center's ability to scan for these codes (aftermarket ECUs generally do not support OBDII), then there is a strong probability that the dealer service center will

Deny warranty coverage
Refuse to service the car
Note with your factory field representative for your region/district that your car has been "modified"
Your car's manufacturer notes are your car's "permanent record." Above all else, avoid compromising these notes. This is nearly always connected with your vehicles' VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) and will
Ensure that your car will not have its warranty honored at any dealer service center in your area.
Dramatically reduce the resale and/or trade-in value of your car.
Event participation
Some recent controversy surrounds car manufacturers' monitoring of SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) and NHRA (National Hot Rod Association) events and noting license plates and VINs as a justification for denying warranty coverage and either voiding out the warranty, or placing it on "restricted" status.

The legality of these tactics by automobile manufacturers, in particular where the car is marketed with SCCA membership or literature or advertised in race-modified form, is questionable. To protect yourself, be aware of this trend and take the appropriate precautions in listing critical identifying information when participating in regional autocrosses, tracks days, and drag races.

If you believe that your warranty has been wrongly canceled or placed on restriction either because of modifications made to your car, or because of your membership in, affiliation with, or participating in sanctioned club events or gatherings, consult with an attorney and use SEMA as a resource to fight the denial of coverage.

When it comes to legality and warranty concerns, neither proceed based solely on slick advertising and marketing by parts manufacturers and resellers, nor allow yourself to be cowed into paranoia. Information is power, and knowing your rights and obligations is the foundation to any thoughtfully modified car.
linky (extra 10 characters)
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 10:16 PM
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yea pretty much because i assume you aren't a lexus certified mechanic...so you wouldn't have a warranty anymore on your new set-up....

what warranty would you think be void if you do it yourself or take it to a shop? i can only think of pre-mature blown struts...which is no biggie to fix.
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 10:28 PM
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things on top of my head with warranty issues might be bushings, toe issues, steering issues, blown shocks.
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DoTheDrew
things on top of my head with warranty issues might be bushings, toe issues, steering issues, blown shocks.
Don't worry about it 99.9% of us don't worry about it, I have s-tech springs and the dealer knew and just didn't give me a free alignment check...i'm about to get coils soon too...like chris said the dealer actually liked seeing my car too
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 10:35 PM
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just stay stock if your worried with warranty
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DoTheDrew
not sure whether this should be moved. sorry mods if it should be.

It's time for me to change my suspension but I am confused as in what to do. Ideally I want to get the Tanabe coilovers however I do not want to void my warranty. So, the other option for me is to get the IS-F springs and shocks (which costs more than the coils apparently). However, for me to keep the warranty, I'd have to get it installed at Lexus, which costs a ridiculous amount (according to a previous thread). I currently have the sport suspension, but it sits way too high. Having the sport shocks, is it sufficient enough to just buy the is-f springs?

also, has anyone had problems with warranty issues having an aftermarket suspension on their car? i don't want to get hassled or neglected for certain issues just because of aftermarket coilovers. mainly, im just worried about warranty issues if i were to put on coilovers and im debating if its worth the hassle if or when the time comes for me to bring the car in for another random recall or some malfunction to my suspension. any suggestions would be appreciated or experiences with dealerships if you have aftermarket suspension on your car. Thanks guys.
1. you can run f-sport springs w/ the stock shocks. getting them installed @ your local certified service center will allow you to retain your factory warranty.

2. dealerships will not give you problems with warranty issues - as long as the warranty issue(s) being addressed isn't/aren't related to your modifications.

for example, i brought my 2is into a certified service center recently for the start-up grinding noise TSB. even though my 2is is on s-techs, that had nothing to do with my warranty repair. they didn't give me any problems, and i got my warranty repairs done.

--

and unless the installer royally screws up on installing f-sport springs, you're not going to have any issues. just make sure you get your 2is aligned after install, and you'll be fine.

also, your stock shocks are not likely to prematurely fail from f-sport springs. if they do, i believe your factory warranty should cover that (assuming your f-sport springs were installed at a certified service center).

i've been on s-techs for over 18k now, and my shocks are fine.
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Old Feb 10, 2009 | 01:38 AM
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rather then read what everyone else has said im going to say this. my car is leased. my car is modified. some of my modifications according to the CA vehicle code are illegal. the dealer has seen all of my modifications. the dealer has done 0 percent of the modifications. im taking my car to the dealer to get some warranty work done. they will do it all without question.
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