Will Lexus ever make a manual IS350?
12-16-08, 06:05 PM
#32
The answer to the OP - NO, Lexus will not make a manual IS350. If they were going to, it would have happened by now.
For all the doubters - Toyota built 6MT and AT Supras. Guess which one sold in greater numbers? Guess which ones sat on the floor waiting to get sold the longest?
For all the doubters - Toyota built 6MT and AT Supras. Guess which one sold in greater numbers? Guess which ones sat on the floor waiting to get sold the longest?
look at used turbo supra prices. the MT commands a couple thousand more $$$
Last edited by tqlla3k; 12-16-08 at 06:08 PM.
12-16-08, 10:19 PM
#33
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If you look industry wide, you'll see manuals only account for a tiny fraction of all new car sales. Scion had to fight with Toyota in Japan to bring the manual tC into the US. Toyota is convinced Americans don't want manual transmissions.
12-16-08, 10:29 PM
#34
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Glad for you. I can see why you are okay with your paddle system... but the ISF has a different paddle shift system than the IS350. The ISF has DSG paddles. IE, if you select 5th gear and punch it... I think you would still be in 5th gear.
The IS350 paddles operate as a "Maximum gear" selector. For example, if I am cruising in 4th gear and accelerate moderately... the car will downshift on its own to 2nd gear, then upshifts as it pleases.
Which is my cheif complaint. If the paddles on the IS350 worked as they should, then I wouldnt have an issue. However, the paddles work the way an auto transmission does.
The IS350 paddles operate as a "Maximum gear" selector. For example, if I am cruising in 4th gear and accelerate moderately... the car will downshift on its own to 2nd gear, then upshifts as it pleases.
Which is my cheif complaint. If the paddles on the IS350 worked as they should, then I wouldnt have an issue. However, the paddles work the way an auto transmission does.
We have a couple issues here.
1. There is simply minimal/no market for Lexus manuals
2. Lexus manuals traditionally SUCK in comparison to the competition.
3. Manual today actually have worse emissions and MPG
12-16-08, 11:36 PM
#35
I'm not including non-turbo Supras. Supras are bought by enthusiasts now. They weren't bought by enthusiasts when they were new. They were bought by the public. The public doesn't like to be bothered with shifting at all. Manual Supras sat on the floor while the autos moved. As time went on, it changed, but when you were coughing up $45k in 1993 dollars, autos were the premium solution for the people with money to buy them.
If you look industry wide, you'll see manuals only account for a tiny fraction of all new car sales. Scion had to fight with Toyota in Japan to bring the manual tC into the US. Toyota is convinced Americans don't want manual transmissions.
If you look industry wide, you'll see manuals only account for a tiny fraction of all new car sales. Scion had to fight with Toyota in Japan to bring the manual tC into the US. Toyota is convinced Americans don't want manual transmissions.
I would also like to add that the 3000GT VR4 was 6MT Only. It was a direct competitor, and the 3000GT Lineup outsold the SUPRA, 300ZX and RX7 combined.
12-17-08, 12:02 AM
#36
IS-F does not have DSG. It is not a dual clutch. Its a fantastic system in its own right.
We have a couple issues here.
1. There is simply minimal/no market for Lexus manuals
2. Lexus manuals traditionally SUCK in comparison to the competition.
3. Manual today actually have worse emissions and MPG
We have a couple issues here.
1. There is simply minimal/no market for Lexus manuals
2. Lexus manuals traditionally SUCK in comparison to the competition.
3. Manual today actually have worse emissions and MPG
1) If they were targetting the 3 series BMW market(which they obviously were)... then they are making a mistake by accepting this as a truth.
2) I have not driven any Lexus with MT, so no comment.
3) There are many cars which get the same or better fuel efficiency with a Manual Transmission
I realize that the door is shut this gen for an MT IS350... but I dont see how their "Wasnt a Market for MT IS350s" when there was enough of a supposed market for the IS250 MT. The IS250 MT doesnt even make sense.
BMW has enough of a market to pair MTs with most of their vehicles.
Acura has announced an AWD MT TL for 2010
Infiniti has MT editions of their G37 vehicles....etc.
Last edited by tqlla3k; 12-17-08 at 06:49 AM.
12-17-08, 09:07 PM
#37
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1. The IS250 stick does make sense in that it is the cheapest Lexus you can buy. It may only be around 1k cheaper, but if you look at it almost all the IS250 sticks were base models no nav.
2. Stop comparing BMW and Lexus. BMW has a very big enthusiast following, not only in the U.S. but in Europe. Look at how many parts are available for our car compared to the 3 series. Even in the last model year of the E46 M3 they made a turbo for it (HPF turbo $15,995.00 starting). Same goes with the G35/37, both cars have a very big following by enthusiasts. I love my Lexus, but it is far from as sporty and my 3 series ever was. Enthusiasts are usually the ones who buy stick.
2. Stop comparing BMW and Lexus. BMW has a very big enthusiast following, not only in the U.S. but in Europe. Look at how many parts are available for our car compared to the 3 series. Even in the last model year of the E46 M3 they made a turbo for it (HPF turbo $15,995.00 starting). Same goes with the G35/37, both cars have a very big following by enthusiasts. I love my Lexus, but it is far from as sporty and my 3 series ever was. Enthusiasts are usually the ones who buy stick.
12-17-08, 11:13 PM
#38
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Yeah, won't happen. 95% of 250 buyers skip the manual entirely, and like 80% of all IS sales are 250s anyway.
So few people would buy a manual 350 (and NOT buy an auto) that they'd never come close to making back the development costs on the transmission.
Plus, it's not 1950 anymore, automatics are better than manuals.
The auto 250 gets better mileage than the manual for example.
even the fastest Porsche these days isn't a manual. Computers shift faster and better than humans do.
So few people would buy a manual 350 (and NOT buy an auto) that they'd never come close to making back the development costs on the transmission.
Plus, it's not 1950 anymore, automatics are better than manuals.
The auto 250 gets better mileage than the manual for example.
even the fastest Porsche these days isn't a manual. Computers shift faster and better than humans do.
IS250 - 4GR-FSE MT w/ 2GR-FSE motor swap?
12-18-08, 06:46 AM
#42
1. The IS250 stick does make sense in that it is the cheapest Lexus you can buy. It may only be around 1k cheaper, but if you look at it almost all the IS250 sticks were base models no nav.
2. Stop comparing BMW and Lexus. BMW has a very big enthusiast following, not only in the U.S. but in Europe. Look at how many parts are available for our car compared to the 3 series. Even in the last model year of the E46 M3 they made a turbo for it (HPF turbo $15,995.00 starting). Same goes with the G35/37, both cars have a very big following by enthusiasts. I love my Lexus, but it is far from as sporty and my 3 series ever was. Enthusiasts are usually the ones who buy stick.
2. Stop comparing BMW and Lexus. BMW has a very big enthusiast following, not only in the U.S. but in Europe. Look at how many parts are available for our car compared to the 3 series. Even in the last model year of the E46 M3 they made a turbo for it (HPF turbo $15,995.00 starting). Same goes with the G35/37, both cars have a very big following by enthusiasts. I love my Lexus, but it is far from as sporty and my 3 series ever was. Enthusiasts are usually the ones who buy stick.
a) For people who are trying to save some money, the car is advertised with lower fuel economy.
b) For people who want performance, the car is advertised with slower times than the IS250 AT. I know its might be due to having to shift into 3rd to get to 60MPH... but the average person wouldnt understand that.
2) The IS is built as a direct competitor to the 3-series BMW.
12-18-08, 07:12 AM
#43
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I drive a IS250 MT 08. and trust me, after driving this POS you dont want your 350 to be MT at all!
First time driving a lexus manual, and ive driven tons of manual cars (worked at a performance shop) and drove a boosted car before so I gave up alot of power to drive the IS and wow the gearbox is garbage. its a drag to drive this car everyday, wish I didnt lease it!
First time driving a lexus manual, and ive driven tons of manual cars (worked at a performance shop) and drove a boosted car before so I gave up alot of power to drive the IS and wow the gearbox is garbage. its a drag to drive this car everyday, wish I didnt lease it!
12-18-08, 07:47 AM
#44
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I drive a IS250 MT 08. and trust me, after driving this POS you dont want your 350 to be MT at all!
First time driving a lexus manual, and ive driven tons of manual cars (worked at a performance shop) and drove a boosted car before so I gave up alot of power to drive the IS and wow the gearbox is garbage. its a drag to drive this car everyday, wish I didnt lease it!
First time driving a lexus manual, and ive driven tons of manual cars (worked at a performance shop) and drove a boosted car before so I gave up alot of power to drive the IS and wow the gearbox is garbage. its a drag to drive this car everyday, wish I didnt lease it!
Be glad you leased it so you can just turn it in later, resale value will suck anyway.
