IS-SV

No significant increase in revenue and profit to justify adding manual.

tqlla3k

iTrader: (1)

1) It doesnt sell well....because its an IS250 MT. If it were an IS350MT it would sell.
2) Not a different kind of buyer. Look at the IS... Its no secret that Lexus specifically targetted the 3-series as their primary competition.
3) The IS250's MT is cheaper than the AT as well... not sure what your point is.

IS-SV

btw, Mercedes does the same thing with the current generation C-Class sedan:

C300 (3.0L) manual standard, auto optional
C350 (3.5L) auto standard

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

It's illegal to coast in neutral in most places by the way- but my auto seems to move between neutral and drive at least as fast as I can work a clutch.

Modern autos are faster, more efficient, and do a better job than you do shifting.

I can't figure out what's "fun" about getting worse results with more effort (a manual)

fasteddy91

iTrader: (5)

^ I agree.

I thought of test driving the g35 sedan with 6 spd maual, but I did not care for the looks of that car. The g35/37 coupe is a different story, but I need 5 seats for the family of 5.

kalvano

1) No, it doesn't sell well because your typical Lexus client has zero interest in a manual transmission.

2) Yes, it is a different kind of buyer. BMW people that buy a 6-speed are pure sporting enthusiasts willing to sacrifice some comfort and convenience for the best handling. Lexus IS owners are sacrificing some handling and sportiness for a more comfortable ride.

3) I know the MT is cheaper than the AT, but it's almost, if not, totally, impossible to get an MT in anything besides base-base car.


You can argue about demand all you want, but the fact is that Premium package 250's spend about 20 - 45 days on the ground, and MT 250's spend anywhere from 6 months to a year.

Nobody wants them, at least not in any significant number.

tqlla3k

iTrader: (1)

1) Are people who buy an IS350... or an ISF.... your typical lexus buyer?
2) BMW owners are now "Pure sport enthusiests"? Ridiculous.
3) I already stated that no one wants a IS250 MT. Not sure why you keep bringing that up.

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

Let me try and answer the first question. Am I typical? Probably not. I am a 70 year old retired white male, who has owned manual transmission cars all his life. My wife's cars have always been auto. Our GMC Sierra is a 5MT. Back in 1993 I bought an SC300 5MT, a very rare car indeed. I traded it in 2003 for an Infiniti G35 Coupe, 6MT. I modded that car, but I always missed my Lexus. A month ago I took my wife to buy an ES350. While at the dealers I made the mistake requesting a test drive in their demo ISF, big mistake on my part, I couldn't get the darn thing out of my mind. I did not go there to buy a car for my self, honest.

Anyway I picked up my new F a week ago, and I luv it. It's my first automatic in over 20 years. It's also my first 4 door, ever! Do I wish it was a manual, yep I do. Can I live with this, I guess, since I have already chosen to. The paddles can be entertaining. The car is awesome, and I'm sure I'll get used to the 8AT. I'm also back in the Lexus fold, which feels great. There really is a difference in the experience.

I might also add, I've been an auto enthusiast all my life. I used to go to the showroom when I was a little kid and poor over brochures. That was my leisure reading. I did some drag racing in my 20s, and I am a BIG NASCAR fan today. I'm probably what you might call, an aggressive driver.

Again, probably not your typical buyer, but that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

Lou

kalvano

1) No. That's the entire point of those cars. But they represent such a tiny portion of overall sales that there is no reason to disrupt the efficiency of the manufacturing plant to make cars that will just sit on the dealer lots.

2) Yes. BMW owners tend to value performance and handling over quiet and smooth.



Believe what you want, but I talk to people every day about these cars.

tqlla3k

iTrader: (1)

Glad for you. I can see why you are okay with your paddle system... but the ISF has a different paddle shift system than the IS350. The ISF has DSG paddles. IE, if you select 5th gear and punch it... I think you would still be in 5th gear.

The IS350 paddles operate as a "Maximum gear" selector. For example, if I am cruising in 4th gear and accelerate moderately... the car will downshift on its own to 2nd gear, then upshifts as it pleases.

Which is my cheif complaint. If the paddles on the IS350 worked as they should, then I wouldnt have an issue. However, the paddles work the way an auto transmission does.

Bichon

Regardless of the legal status or whether you have a manual or automatic transmission, it's actually detrimental to your fuel economy to shift into neutral when coasting downhill. Leave the car in gear and the engine management software will cut off the fuel injectors entirely, which saves a lot more gas than coasting in neutral.

It's a question of control; the manual transmission does exactly what you want it to, exactly when you want it to, making the driving experience more involving.

The IS was built and marketed to appeal to a different demographic than your typical Lexus vehicle; that's why so many of us on the forum are coming from Audi, BMW, Honda S-2000, etc.

That's because Lexus and their dealers regard manual transmissions as an option that budget-conscious buyers choose to save a few grand, not as an option that well-heeled performance buyers choose to enhance their driving pleasure.

That's what you call a self-fulfilling prophecy. Pair a mediocre quality manual tranny with the less potent engine, put it in a stripped down car, and then when nobody buys it, conclude that nobody wants a manual.

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

^^^^Bichon, you seem to be a very wise young man. I can not find fault with any of your above statements

Lou

rroy

iTrader: (1)

Not sure if it's a difference in regions but when I bought my car back in '06, I wanted white and a manual and my dealer had 2 on the lot. Each time I go in for service there's almost always one in the showroom; along with 5-6 IS-F's. Lexus of Norwood (boston area) if you're curious.

Well said. A manual also includes a little gadget called the "clutch" which can be very entertaining except in rush-hour traffic.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

My wifes SC300 has a clutch. It's annoying as hell compared to driving the 6AT in my 2IS. And that's a relatively nice/easy clutch too compared to many I've driven.

More effort for worse results=fun? That's just never gonna add up for me.

I don't even bother with the paddle shifters generally, because the computer is very, very good and the car is rarely NOT in the gear I want it to be without my having to put any work into getting it there. Hence I can focus more on actually -driving- the vehicle (steering, braking, and throttle control) rather than wasting time and effort telling the transmission what it should be doing.

Now, in a 1953 crapbox where the auto was a horrible 3-speed that was never in the right gear and lost 15% more hp and mpg compared to the stick? Sure, manual all the way, it's worth the extra work.

But in a 200x vehicle with a modern auto that is faster and more efficient than the manual option AND takes less work? Easy win for the auto.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

The answer to the OP - NO, Lexus will not make a manual IS350. If they were going to, it would have happened by now.

For all the doubters - Toyota built 6MT and AT Supras. Guess which one sold in greater numbers? Guess which ones sat on the floor waiting to get sold the longest?

Don't get me wrong, I've been driving MT vehicles since I was 6 - 42 years ago - when I learned to drive a tractor in the barnyard. I really like the control of a manual transmission. But I have to say, the IS350's gearbox is pretty decent for an auto - my only complaints are occasional flare (when rolling at about 5 mph and you gas it, the engine revs but you don't go anywhere for a moment while the torque converter is deciding if you're really serious or not), but other than that it's pretty good at putting me in the gear I need. The paddles truly suck. The paddles in the IS-F are vastly better, and I would pay money to have the same kind of control in the 350.

I don't generally grouse about this subject because I still have my Supra with its Getrag 233, so I can get my instant fill of manual driving any time. Still, I drive the 350 more often than anything and I don't miss not having a manual in it at all. Especially if it were going to be the Tacoma based RA-62.