Mark Levinson
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 28
From: Utah
I'll take an extra 0.5 seconds to calculate a route in exchange for the hour I can save avoiding traffic jams thanks to the realtime traffic data the aftermarket unit provides.
Plus the $2800 savings. (or $2200 without ML)
Plus the $225 I save every time I want to update the maps.
Plus being able to plan routes and POIs for long/complex trips while at home on my PC then just uploading them to the nav.
and so on
Plus the $2800 savings. (or $2200 without ML)
Plus the $225 I save every time I want to update the maps.
Plus being able to plan routes and POIs for long/complex trips while at home on my PC then just uploading them to the nav.
and so on
Appearance and convenience, no plugging in and out, not sitting on the dash or hanging from the windshield.
All the vehicle’s systems can be displayed (audio + video controls + displays, climate controls, cell phone, parking assist, etc).
Dead-reckoning using vehicle’s speed and steering when signal is lost.
Back-up camera.
Bluetooth cell phone integration that turns off the audio, when receiving a call.
Voice controlled.
Voice output comes through the vehicle’s audio system.
Koz
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
From: WA
You know, not to play devil's advocate or anything, but the great majority of ALL car owners, of any make or model, who opt for the stereo upgrade, swear that they made the right decision. In many cases, it's not necesarily that the stereo upgrade is THAT good, but rather it feels more comforting to tell yourself and others that you didn't spent money on mearely a mediocre option.
Look around on other message boards... Mercedes, BMW, etc. There are ridiculous amounts of threads that go back and forth on the subject.
The fact is, no factory audio upgrade is worth the money spent. It will always be marked up higher than if you upgraded the audio via third party resources and equipment. But the same can be said about virtually any option.
So what are you really paying for?
The peace of mind that comes with it being "stock," or OEM, or whatever you want to call it.
People who claim that "you're not much of an audiophile if you can't hear that the Mark Levinson system is amazing" really aren't very justified. The fact is, a TRUE audiophile knows that for the best quality soundscape, one would benefit more from buying third party speakers, amps, subs and cables that have been reviewed, tested and acclaimed by highly trusted resources such as audio enthousiast communities. Many people who "swear" by Mark Levinson, or Harmon Kardon, etc, are the same people who bag on people thinking highly of Bose. Among audio communities, that's the true joke. Bose might be crap, but Mark Levinson and Harmon Kardon aren't exactly industry-leading manufacturers, either. They're better than Bose, yes, but they're not, by far, elite in any sense.
Here's the deal; does the Mark Levinson system in the IS sound good? Yes. Does the stock system sound good? Yes. But it's all by comparison to other makes. The IS actually has one of the best stock(non Mark Levinson) systems you can get in a car, which is really saying something. We're very fortunate. So if you're stressing out about missing out on getting the Mark Levinson upgrade, don't worry about it. You can have a system that's 3 times as good as the ML upgrade if you do some research on some reputable audio communities.
In short, the ML upgrade does not, by any means, blow out the stock system. It's a nice improvement, but in the end, you're just fine without it... unless you go aftermarket.
Look around on other message boards... Mercedes, BMW, etc. There are ridiculous amounts of threads that go back and forth on the subject.
The fact is, no factory audio upgrade is worth the money spent. It will always be marked up higher than if you upgraded the audio via third party resources and equipment. But the same can be said about virtually any option.
So what are you really paying for?
The peace of mind that comes with it being "stock," or OEM, or whatever you want to call it.
People who claim that "you're not much of an audiophile if you can't hear that the Mark Levinson system is amazing" really aren't very justified. The fact is, a TRUE audiophile knows that for the best quality soundscape, one would benefit more from buying third party speakers, amps, subs and cables that have been reviewed, tested and acclaimed by highly trusted resources such as audio enthousiast communities. Many people who "swear" by Mark Levinson, or Harmon Kardon, etc, are the same people who bag on people thinking highly of Bose. Among audio communities, that's the true joke. Bose might be crap, but Mark Levinson and Harmon Kardon aren't exactly industry-leading manufacturers, either. They're better than Bose, yes, but they're not, by far, elite in any sense.
Here's the deal; does the Mark Levinson system in the IS sound good? Yes. Does the stock system sound good? Yes. But it's all by comparison to other makes. The IS actually has one of the best stock(non Mark Levinson) systems you can get in a car, which is really saying something. We're very fortunate. So if you're stressing out about missing out on getting the Mark Levinson upgrade, don't worry about it. You can have a system that's 3 times as good as the ML upgrade if you do some research on some reputable audio communities.
In short, the ML upgrade does not, by any means, blow out the stock system. It's a nice improvement, but in the end, you're just fine without it... unless you go aftermarket.
I , 100% agree with you on that.....You really have to know your audiophile componets to "really appriciate " the higher end units and what to "hear" for in the difference. It can only start from being aware of your brands you set up at home. If you love Bose...onkyo...denon....boston... units then the stock system is more then enough for you...... But when you get into Krell...B&W..."Mark Levinson" then and only then will your "ears" understand the difference. There is another level of sound you miss when you have lesser brands....That is also the difference in cost...when you "get into the audiophile level of manufactors" You can get blown away of the value....of these systems... If a few thousand bucks can get you introduced to a Levinson system. Then is it a bargain.... yes a bargain compared to what his systems can cost for home use.... It's like goin from a Geo metro to Lexus 460L.
What about?
Appearance and convenience, no plugging in and out, not sitting on the dash or hanging from the windshield.
All the vehicle’s systems can be displayed (audio + video controls + displays, climate controls, cell phone, parking assist, etc).
Dead-reckoning using vehicle’s speed and steering when signal is lost.
Back-up camera.
Bluetooth cell phone integration that turns off the audio, when receiving a call.
Voice controlled.
Voice output comes through the vehicle’s audio system.
Koz
Appearance and convenience, no plugging in and out, not sitting on the dash or hanging from the windshield.
All the vehicle’s systems can be displayed (audio + video controls + displays, climate controls, cell phone, parking assist, etc).
Dead-reckoning using vehicle’s speed and steering when signal is lost.
Back-up camera.
Bluetooth cell phone integration that turns off the audio, when receiving a call.
Voice controlled.
Voice output comes through the vehicle’s audio system.
Koz
Most of that is available in the aftermarket, once again better and cheaper.
You do have to plug them in, at least part time (many have batteries that'll run for many hours between charges). The little dead flat area right above the center stack is -perfect- for a garmin friction mount by the way... and makes it easy to just take it with you if you'll be in a loaner or rental car, or using your spouse or friends car, etc.
All the things you listed for display are -still- displayed, they're just displayed elsewhere. I've yet to have trouble understanding my AC controls where they are displayed for example.
Dead reckoning- available in the aftermarket, has been for years.
Backup camera- available in the aftermarket, has been for years (this does require marginal labor, but still way way less than you save avoiding factory GPS)
Bluetooth- available in the aftermarket, has been for years. Granted you might have to manually quiet your stereo, that's one button press- can even do it from the wheel
Voice control- available in the aftermarket, has been for years.
Voice output through stereo system- available in the aftermarket, has been for years.
I suspect most folks who poo-poo the idea of saving $3000 and gaining extra features with an aftermarket GPS haven't used one since 2003 or something, which is about when the Lexus OEM nav feature set dates from honestly.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 952
Likes: 1
From: Sunny So Cal
You know, not to play devil's advocate or anything, but the great majority of ALL car owners, of any make or model, who opt for the stereo upgrade, swear that they made the right decision. In many cases, it's not necesarily that the stereo upgrade is THAT good, but rather it feels more comforting to tell yourself and others that you didn't spent money on mearely a mediocre option.
Look around on other message boards... Mercedes, BMW, etc. There are ridiculous amounts of threads that go back and forth on the subject.
The fact is, no factory audio upgrade is worth the money spent. It will always be marked up higher than if you upgraded the audio via third party resources and equipment. But the same can be said about virtually any option.
So what are you really paying for?
The peace of mind that comes with it being "stock," or OEM, or whatever you want to call it.
People who claim that "you're not much of an audiophile if you can't hear that the Mark Levinson system is amazing" really aren't very justified. The fact is, a TRUE audiophile knows that for the best quality soundscape, one would benefit more from buying third party speakers, amps, subs and cables that have been reviewed, tested and acclaimed by highly trusted resources such as audio enthousiast communities. Many people who "swear" by Mark Levinson, or Harmon Kardon, etc, are the same people who bag on people thinking highly of Bose. Among audio communities, that's the true joke. Bose might be crap, but Mark Levinson and Harmon Kardon aren't exactly industry-leading manufacturers, either. They're better than Bose, yes, but they're not, by far, elite in any sense.
Here's the deal; does the Mark Levinson system in the IS sound good? Yes. Does the stock system sound good? Yes. But it's all by comparison to other makes. The IS actually has one of the best stock(non Mark Levinson) systems you can get in a car, which is really saying something. We're very fortunate. So if you're stressing out about missing out on getting the Mark Levinson upgrade, don't worry about it. You can have a system that's 3 times as good as the ML upgrade if you do some research on some reputable audio communities.
In short, the ML upgrade does not, by any means, blow out the stock system. It's a nice improvement, but in the end, you're just fine without it... unless you go aftermarket.
Look around on other message boards... Mercedes, BMW, etc. There are ridiculous amounts of threads that go back and forth on the subject.
The fact is, no factory audio upgrade is worth the money spent. It will always be marked up higher than if you upgraded the audio via third party resources and equipment. But the same can be said about virtually any option.
So what are you really paying for?
The peace of mind that comes with it being "stock," or OEM, or whatever you want to call it.
People who claim that "you're not much of an audiophile if you can't hear that the Mark Levinson system is amazing" really aren't very justified. The fact is, a TRUE audiophile knows that for the best quality soundscape, one would benefit more from buying third party speakers, amps, subs and cables that have been reviewed, tested and acclaimed by highly trusted resources such as audio enthousiast communities. Many people who "swear" by Mark Levinson, or Harmon Kardon, etc, are the same people who bag on people thinking highly of Bose. Among audio communities, that's the true joke. Bose might be crap, but Mark Levinson and Harmon Kardon aren't exactly industry-leading manufacturers, either. They're better than Bose, yes, but they're not, by far, elite in any sense.
Here's the deal; does the Mark Levinson system in the IS sound good? Yes. Does the stock system sound good? Yes. But it's all by comparison to other makes. The IS actually has one of the best stock(non Mark Levinson) systems you can get in a car, which is really saying something. We're very fortunate. So if you're stressing out about missing out on getting the Mark Levinson upgrade, don't worry about it. You can have a system that's 3 times as good as the ML upgrade if you do some research on some reputable audio communities.
In short, the ML upgrade does not, by any means, blow out the stock system. It's a nice improvement, but in the end, you're just fine without it... unless you go aftermarket.
In the end, to each his own. If you're happy w/o ML, that's cool and if you're happy you got ML, that's all good.
I think the OP was just pointing out that he couldn't hear the difference between ML and no ML. I don't think he meant for his thread to turn out into an all out tug of war in terms of "my stereo is better than yours".
ML & Krell
Please let me know what you can do to the stock system for $752 total (the invoice cost of ML without nav) that'll make it sound significantly better than the ML system. Be sure to include 4 years of warranty in your pricing.
(please be specific)
for once in this thread, i agree w/ Kurtz. you can't get the type of aural fidelity that the ML system in the 2is without spending more than $752... and a four-year warranty. btw when i use the term "aural fidelity" i do not mean trunk-rattling bass; what i do mean is clear and crisp sound across the ENTIRE aural spectrum, not just a few frequencies.
My Special order car is an IS350 Base with ML+NAV+18s+HIDs. There is no way thats on anyone allocation list.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,101
Likes: 2
From: Candyland
With all this Mark Levinson talk, does anyone remember when him and his former wife, Kim Cattrall (Sex and the City) wrote that controversial book? I remember there was a big article in People Magazine back in 2002 when this was released.
http://www.amazon.com/Satisfaction-F.../dp/0446530719
http://www.amazon.com/Satisfaction-F.../dp/0446530719
You know, not to play devil's advocate or anything, but the great majority of ALL car owners, of any make or model, who opt for the stereo upgrade, swear that they made the right decision. In many cases, it's not necesarily that the stereo upgrade is THAT good, but rather it feels more comforting to tell yourself and others that you didn't spent money on mearely a mediocre option.
Look around on other message boards... Mercedes, BMW, etc. There are ridiculous amounts of threads that go back and forth on the subject.
The fact is, no factory audio upgrade is worth the money spent. It will always be marked up higher than if you upgraded the audio via third party resources and equipment. But the same can be said about virtually any option.
So what are you really paying for?
The peace of mind that comes with it being "stock," or OEM, or whatever you want to call it.
People who claim that "you're not much of an audiophile if you can't hear that the Mark Levinson system is amazing" really aren't very justified. The fact is, a TRUE audiophile knows that for the best quality soundscape, one would benefit more from buying third party speakers, amps, subs and cables that have been reviewed, tested and acclaimed by highly trusted resources such as audio enthousiast communities. Many people who "swear" by Mark Levinson, or Harmon Kardon, etc, are the same people who bag on people thinking highly of Bose. Among audio communities, that's the true joke. Bose might be crap, but Mark Levinson and Harmon Kardon aren't exactly industry-leading manufacturers, either. They're better than Bose, yes, but they're not, by far, elite in any sense.
Here's the deal; does the Mark Levinson system in the IS sound good? Yes. Does the stock system sound good? Yes. But it's all by comparison to other makes. The IS actually has one of the best stock(non Mark Levinson) systems you can get in a car, which is really saying something. We're very fortunate. So if you're stressing out about missing out on getting the Mark Levinson upgrade, don't worry about it. You can have a system that's 3 times as good as the ML upgrade if you do some research on some reputable audio communities.
In short, the ML upgrade does not, by any means, blow out the stock system. It's a nice improvement, but in the end, you're just fine without it... unless you go aftermarket.
Look around on other message boards... Mercedes, BMW, etc. There are ridiculous amounts of threads that go back and forth on the subject.
The fact is, no factory audio upgrade is worth the money spent. It will always be marked up higher than if you upgraded the audio via third party resources and equipment. But the same can be said about virtually any option.
So what are you really paying for?
The peace of mind that comes with it being "stock," or OEM, or whatever you want to call it.
People who claim that "you're not much of an audiophile if you can't hear that the Mark Levinson system is amazing" really aren't very justified. The fact is, a TRUE audiophile knows that for the best quality soundscape, one would benefit more from buying third party speakers, amps, subs and cables that have been reviewed, tested and acclaimed by highly trusted resources such as audio enthousiast communities. Many people who "swear" by Mark Levinson, or Harmon Kardon, etc, are the same people who bag on people thinking highly of Bose. Among audio communities, that's the true joke. Bose might be crap, but Mark Levinson and Harmon Kardon aren't exactly industry-leading manufacturers, either. They're better than Bose, yes, but they're not, by far, elite in any sense.
Here's the deal; does the Mark Levinson system in the IS sound good? Yes. Does the stock system sound good? Yes. But it's all by comparison to other makes. The IS actually has one of the best stock(non Mark Levinson) systems you can get in a car, which is really saying something. We're very fortunate. So if you're stressing out about missing out on getting the Mark Levinson upgrade, don't worry about it. You can have a system that's 3 times as good as the ML upgrade if you do some research on some reputable audio communities.
In short, the ML upgrade does not, by any means, blow out the stock system. It's a nice improvement, but in the end, you're just fine without it... unless you go aftermarket.
Factory systems are a lot better than they used to be.... when they were made with paper
Last edited by tqlla3k; Mar 26, 2008 at 02:22 PM.
Hey I''m a big fan of Krell...they are a leading benchmark mfg in fact I used their HTS 7.1 and their showcase Amp..... but not to include ML in their "class" of componets is understating levinson gear...have you ever heard their 33's ref mono amps? A pair would set you back the cost of a ISF !!! They all carry Class A gear and yes everyone in audiophile land has their favs....just like you would in aftermarket parts for our cars...It's like saying Greddy blows HKS out the door... my 2 cents.....just like yours
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Nevada
My IS-F has the ML system w/ DVD and it sounds great, but to be honest, I really can't tell the difference from my IS350. Could be my age. Now here's a question for all of you tech geeks out there. Is there anyway to disconnect the emergency brake system that needs to be on in order to play the DVD? It also has to be in park too. Now I know it's illegal or not recommended because of people watching the video's instead of the road. But driving the streets of Vegas, I guarantee, are more distracting than any video.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
From: WA
That is absolutely false. Lets see my ML system was $1440 more than the NAV without ML. Please find me a system with a 6-disc DVD changer and 14 speakers+amps which can be had for less than $1500... and is superior to the ML system.
Factory systems are a lot better than they used to be.... when they were made with paper
Factory systems are a lot better than they used to be.... when they were made with paper
You're not thinking about it clearly.
Does ML give you 14 EXTRA speakers? No. You get ONE extra speaker with the ML upgrade.
You guys who are saying "find me a $800 equivalent to the ML and then I'll agree" aren't understanding the point.
ML is IN ADDITION to the stock system, more or less. It's not like you're getting a completely new system for $800, are you kidding me?
DYI with photo!!! Navigation Hack (Enable DVD,Phonebook,MP3 folder when moving)
My IS-F has the ML system w/ DVD and it sounds great, but to be honest, I really can't tell the difference from my IS350. Could be my age. Now here's a question for all of you tech geeks out there. Is there anyway to disconnect the emergency brake system that needs to be on in order to play the DVD? It also has to be in park too. Now I know it's illegal or not recommended because of people watching the video's instead of the road. But driving the streets of Vegas, I guarantee, are more distracting than any video.
just search for "DYI with photo!!! Navigation Hack (Enable DVD,Phonebook,MP3 folder when moving)" In the forum search.... and good luck
very popular thread...