Mark Levinson -vs- Pioneer - The Showdown
10-20-05, 10:00 AM
#46
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Originally Posted by tigmd99
I have disagreed with Percy in the past on this topic: aftermarket vs. ML. if you have the $$ & patience, then get ML. Period. If you don't, then consider what Percy is suggesting. However, Percy's way has many variables and pitfalls. Disclaimer: I do have experience with car audio, but i am not a professional installer.
Aftermarket parts are great and all...but the quality may not be any better than ML's stuff. For example, on my CRV, i had MB Quart Q (MB Quart top-of-the-line speakers back then)...one of the woofer blew within 6 months. BTW, i listen to pop most of the time at low-moderate volumes, including Celine Dion (sad to admit it). You get the picture...i was not stretching the system by any means.
***I had lots of MBQ sets in the past. Even managed to throw out the cone of the 160.03 midwoofer to the point where the coil was actually dislodged and on TOP of the magnet - literally went of the track so to speak. This was at a moderate listening level! ***
Mark Levinson parts are pretty top-notch for OEM stuff (and aftermarket standards). Polypropylene cones, titanium tweets, neodymium magnets on all speakers, and aluminum baskets are top quality stuff. Aftermarket speakers ONLY the past few years are coming out with neodymium magnets in their woofers. And Lexus (or Harman Kardon) makes these things in mass production under quality control...so, these things are very uniform in quality. Aftermarket stuff may not have this type of quality control.
***Most aftermarket QC won't even touch Dyn QC. Dynaudio uses 85 - 86 steps in the process of their drivers, considered among the best in the industry. The last step is used for their cabinets, obviously, not used in car audio. Harman International doesn't even come close to the level of QC, though they can punch out high quantity. Polyprop cones have been around for years - nothing special. It's what they mix in with the poly that makes or breaks what the company goal is. With Dyn, it's a mixture of magnesium silicate. Titanium tweets are still overhyped and I'm still waiting for someone to step up to the bat for a suggestion in a titanium tweeter that can outperform the MD100 in REAL listening sessions, in an automotive enviroment. I'm not even mentiontioning the MD130 or the ESOTAR tweeters. Not a chance. ***
***As for neo in woofers, Dyn also has this but not in the car audio realm. Dyn uses an oversized and very lightweight voice coil assembly so their concern was getting a uniform magnetic flux throughout the coil travel at xmax. The Dyn voice coil (3 inch) uses aluminum wire on a aluminum/kapton former and weighs in as much as a smaller voice coil made out of copper. Much more control in the voice coil. Dyn is supposedly coming out with a ESOTAR neo based tweeter for the car within a year or so...but it's on the drawing board. They don't simply relabel them for automotive usage - Dyn has to reformulate the adhesives and suspension (read the specs on home vs car - quite different) as well as the amount of magnesium silicate used in the woofer. Coatings are also different for the tweeter. Plus consider the fact that all Dynaudio really makes are speakers and can customize them to the enviorment that they are designed for. Much like a F1 race car - very purpose built. Change the suspension here, change the MSP level there, you get the idea. With Harman International, they have to punch out electronics, speakers, etc and they're not very specialized. I'd really like to see the specs in the speakers they're using for the ML/GS/IS system. That includes the distortion graphs, decay plots, etc.***
Installation is a big hassle. You don't know who you will get...a highschool dropout, a guy off the street who is working part time at Mcdonalds and stereo place, or a professional installer with proper training. And going to a well-respected car audio shop is NOT always a guarantee.
***That's why I always recommend you DIY. Armed with the right info and some service manuals, which the better Lexus dealerships will let you copy.***
Sound. Yes, you can get a big aftermarket amplifier with Dynaudio speakers and make powerful sound. However, you will NEVER match Mark Levinson's imaging or staging...you will never be able to tweak the aftermarket stuff to match the interior of your Lexus. Mark Levinson tuned the Lexus since day one. Yes, you can get Alpine F1 series and tune it...but, once again, you need an expert audiophile/installer.
***Let's take this a step further. Use the ML processor. Same programming. Just bolt in better speakers with lower distortion, better power handling and better dispersion. Guess what...Dyn speakers have outstanding staging abilities. Unlike the MBQ stuff - I know as I have had LOTS of them at one time. You can really mess around with the Dyn speakers and come out with something incredible.***
Alpine F1 series are not cheap either...after everything, you will easily spend over $5K on your system! The headunit alone is around $2000. And then you have to get other parts to match the quality of the F1 headunit...and you will easily go past $5000!
Aftermarket parts are great and all...but the quality may not be any better than ML's stuff. For example, on my CRV, i had MB Quart Q (MB Quart top-of-the-line speakers back then)...one of the woofer blew within 6 months. BTW, i listen to pop most of the time at low-moderate volumes, including Celine Dion (sad to admit it). You get the picture...i was not stretching the system by any means.
***I had lots of MBQ sets in the past. Even managed to throw out the cone of the 160.03 midwoofer to the point where the coil was actually dislodged and on TOP of the magnet - literally went of the track so to speak. This was at a moderate listening level! ***
Mark Levinson parts are pretty top-notch for OEM stuff (and aftermarket standards). Polypropylene cones, titanium tweets, neodymium magnets on all speakers, and aluminum baskets are top quality stuff. Aftermarket speakers ONLY the past few years are coming out with neodymium magnets in their woofers. And Lexus (or Harman Kardon) makes these things in mass production under quality control...so, these things are very uniform in quality. Aftermarket stuff may not have this type of quality control.
***Most aftermarket QC won't even touch Dyn QC. Dynaudio uses 85 - 86 steps in the process of their drivers, considered among the best in the industry. The last step is used for their cabinets, obviously, not used in car audio. Harman International doesn't even come close to the level of QC, though they can punch out high quantity. Polyprop cones have been around for years - nothing special. It's what they mix in with the poly that makes or breaks what the company goal is. With Dyn, it's a mixture of magnesium silicate. Titanium tweets are still overhyped and I'm still waiting for someone to step up to the bat for a suggestion in a titanium tweeter that can outperform the MD100 in REAL listening sessions, in an automotive enviroment. I'm not even mentiontioning the MD130 or the ESOTAR tweeters. Not a chance. ***
***As for neo in woofers, Dyn also has this but not in the car audio realm. Dyn uses an oversized and very lightweight voice coil assembly so their concern was getting a uniform magnetic flux throughout the coil travel at xmax. The Dyn voice coil (3 inch) uses aluminum wire on a aluminum/kapton former and weighs in as much as a smaller voice coil made out of copper. Much more control in the voice coil. Dyn is supposedly coming out with a ESOTAR neo based tweeter for the car within a year or so...but it's on the drawing board. They don't simply relabel them for automotive usage - Dyn has to reformulate the adhesives and suspension (read the specs on home vs car - quite different) as well as the amount of magnesium silicate used in the woofer. Coatings are also different for the tweeter. Plus consider the fact that all Dynaudio really makes are speakers and can customize them to the enviorment that they are designed for. Much like a F1 race car - very purpose built. Change the suspension here, change the MSP level there, you get the idea. With Harman International, they have to punch out electronics, speakers, etc and they're not very specialized. I'd really like to see the specs in the speakers they're using for the ML/GS/IS system. That includes the distortion graphs, decay plots, etc.***
Installation is a big hassle. You don't know who you will get...a highschool dropout, a guy off the street who is working part time at Mcdonalds and stereo place, or a professional installer with proper training. And going to a well-respected car audio shop is NOT always a guarantee.
***That's why I always recommend you DIY. Armed with the right info and some service manuals, which the better Lexus dealerships will let you copy.***
Sound. Yes, you can get a big aftermarket amplifier with Dynaudio speakers and make powerful sound. However, you will NEVER match Mark Levinson's imaging or staging...you will never be able to tweak the aftermarket stuff to match the interior of your Lexus. Mark Levinson tuned the Lexus since day one. Yes, you can get Alpine F1 series and tune it...but, once again, you need an expert audiophile/installer.
***Let's take this a step further. Use the ML processor. Same programming. Just bolt in better speakers with lower distortion, better power handling and better dispersion. Guess what...Dyn speakers have outstanding staging abilities. Unlike the MBQ stuff - I know as I have had LOTS of them at one time. You can really mess around with the Dyn speakers and come out with something incredible.***
Alpine F1 series are not cheap either...after everything, you will easily spend over $5K on your system! The headunit alone is around $2000. And then you have to get other parts to match the quality of the F1 headunit...and you will easily go past $5000!
***
10-20-05, 10:02 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by Percy
***Yep...Over 5 grand it is! Though my goal right now is just to put my car back together after a 17 year old plowed into me. System is being revamped. Not F#1 yet... but Mc/Velodyne/Dyns are loaded and ready for install. ***
***
10-20-05, 10:21 AM
#48
Moderator - Electronics Forum
I've listened to older Sony XESZ50 setups that when properly tuned will blow away the ML system. The newer Alpine F#1 status will and should completely "tank" the ML. Plus the fact that the Alpine F#1 Status can automatically adjust for the speakers, position, interior acoustics, time alignment with a simple click of the mouse. You have to be out of the car when it does this though...tones get kinda loud and annoying. Now for those of you that argue "gee...there isn't anyone in the car and it's tuning for that"...you could always use a Bruel & Kjaer head and torso simulator or a crash test dummy...or even a large teddy bear with some old clothes. Just simulates the reflections.
Another nice feature of the Alpine F#1 Status (new) is the road noise EQ. Responds MUCH faster than what is in the OEM world right now. And it's more than a simple "bass boost".
Percy
Another nice feature of the Alpine F#1 Status (new) is the road noise EQ. Responds MUCH faster than what is in the OEM world right now. And it's more than a simple "bass boost".
Percy
10-20-05, 12:04 PM
#51
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Would rather be doing something more "educational" while it's calibrating...like maybe Halo 2, Gt4...that sort of thing. But, yeah, you could stay in there with earplugs and gunmuffs.
Percy
But, yeah, you could stay in there with earplugs and gunmuffs. Percy
10-20-05, 02:40 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by diablo1
Amen to that! Throw in GTA San Andreas and it's perfect...
10-20-05, 02:48 PM
#54
Imagine what Mark Levinson can do with $7000+ of just audio stuff (excluding NAVI)?!!! Mark Levinson just might blow away any other aftermarket system!
As stated above, what you get for the optional ML system is a steal when compare to aftermarket systems...and it's more reliable (IMO), better warranty, and EXPERT install!
BTW, i will be living with a slight constant hiss in my Corolla system...they can't find why it hisses!
When will Mark Levinson be available as an option in a Corolla?!! 
As stated above, what you get for the optional ML system is a steal when compare to aftermarket systems...and it's more reliable (IMO), better warranty, and EXPERT install!
BTW, i will be living with a slight constant hiss in my Corolla system...they can't find why it hisses!
When will Mark Levinson be available as an option in a Corolla?!!
10-20-05, 04:21 PM
#55
Lexus Test Driver
I like Percy's system..
but will it play DVD's in 5.1 surround sound? Will it have issues? Does it cost $940? My comparison was limited to Pioneer vs. Mark Levinson like the thread topic. I also liked the suggestion about replacing the tweeters as long as the resistance is the same. I only wish that Percy worked for the Mark Levinson division of Harmon International so we could enjoy his designs from the factory.
10-20-05, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rockville
but will it play DVD's in 5.1 surround sound? Will it have issues? Does it cost $940? My comparison was limited to Pioneer vs. Mark Levinson like the thread topic. I also liked the suggestion about replacing the tweeters as long as the resistance is the same. I only wish that Percy worked for the Mark Levinson division of Harmon International so we could enjoy his designs from the factory.
Percy for president!
10-20-05, 04:50 PM
#57
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Originally Posted by Rockville
but will it play DVD's in 5.1 surround sound?
***Check out the links***
http://www.alpinef1status.com/e/index.html
http://www.alpinef1status.com/e/tech...dia/index.html
Will it have issues?
***Expensive, but worth it.***
Does it cost $940?
***Much more unfortunately, but you're paying for literally the edge of the art in Car Audio right now. But, think of it this way...a system equipped similarly equipped back a few years ago would have run about 8 grand, and that's without the automatic tuning/calibration feature. Sony's top end XES Z50 had less channels, no floating point processor and was limited in the crossover section. Sure, they had bragged about a 72db/oct feature, but who needs a slope THAT steep? (Steeper slopes cause problems in transients and ringing). ***
My comparison was limited to Pioneer vs. Mark Levinson like the thread topic. I also liked the suggestion about replacing the tweeters as long as the resistance is the same. I only wish that Percy worked for the Mark Levinson division of Harmon International so we could enjoy his designs from the factory.
***Check out the links***
http://www.alpinef1status.com/e/index.html
http://www.alpinef1status.com/e/tech...dia/index.html
Will it have issues?
***Expensive, but worth it.***
Does it cost $940?
***Much more unfortunately, but you're paying for literally the edge of the art in Car Audio right now. But, think of it this way...a system equipped similarly equipped back a few years ago would have run about 8 grand, and that's without the automatic tuning/calibration feature. Sony's top end XES Z50 had less channels, no floating point processor and was limited in the crossover section. Sure, they had bragged about a 72db/oct feature, but who needs a slope THAT steep? (Steeper slopes cause problems in transients and ringing). ***
My comparison was limited to Pioneer vs. Mark Levinson like the thread topic. I also liked the suggestion about replacing the tweeters as long as the resistance is the same. I only wish that Percy worked for the Mark Levinson division of Harmon International so we could enjoy his designs from the factory.
Results to come.
Percy
10-20-05, 10:09 PM
#58
Moderator - Electronics Forum
GS400 Dynaudio/Pioneer vs GS430 ML (2006)
The place...Arlington Lexus. Time...7:30pm. No dusty storms. No tumbleweeds. heck, not a 6 shooter in sight or even a 10 gallon hat. More like a martial arts movie where one martial arts person challenges another via a signed matchup. The ricepaper is handed...Pioneer/Dynaudio versus ML.
We take a look at the Pioneer system. In it's stock form it's a worthy advesary among the OEM makers. Drop the stocks, bolt the Dyns on. Like going from yellow belt to black belt. Jumping the ranks.
Mark Levinson. The name itself rings familiarity among the golden ear critics. 100,000 dollar systems come to mind. Their "affordable" CD player runs several thousand dollars. Forget about the model numbers...the ML components go by "No. 39" or "No. 36". If they could get away with it, they'd have a killer component setup called "No. 007". Gotta have the class to fit the aura.
6 disc mag is popped and dropped from the GS. New 430 w/ ML has the disc changer built in. Gotta load the ammo face side up, shiny side down. 6 shots. Takes time. If this were a gunfight, the person loading would be dead. Anyone got a speedloader?
Exploring the options. Pressing the Audio button, there's a selection for Surround and ASL. Also settings for Bass, Mid and Treble.
First tune pops up. Five for Fighting. "She will be loved". For those that know the song (and most do), it starts off with a nice beat. Vocals next. Tune it according to ear to what sounds best. +4 for Bass, +1 for Mid, +3 for Treble. Listen to the tune. Vocals colored and nasal sounding. Play with the mid control some more. No go. Sounds either bad or worse. Bass...good in some spots but mostly muddy. Overpowered midbass. Treble, high hats sound fair at best. Seems like a big dip in frequency response.
Bowling for Soup. 1985. Starts off with guitars, distorted on purpose. Kinda crunchy. Same effect...vocals nasal sounding. Tweeters too bright, even when turned all the way down. RINGING from titanium. The tweeter doesn't sound like it has any damping material behind the cone...might be bare neo metal that the soundwave is bouncing against. Notice that the imaging is very sensitive to head placement so I raise and lower position to get the best sound. Even moving so much as 1 inch to the right or left will yield very different results. I stay in the "sweet spot", which is fairly small.
I go through quite a few more tracks. 99 Luftballoons/Nena. Walk like an egyptian/Bangles. Come on Eileen/Dexy's Midnight runners. Nothings gonna stop us/Starship. After the thrill is gone/Eagles. Theme from Superman (TV)/5 for fighting. Even a tune from little Avril lavigne. Avril makes a good test since there is SO MUCH going on in the recording. You need outstanding channel seperation as well as a really good signal to noise ratio and some high resolution speakers to pick everything out. With Avril loaded, the music just turns to MUSH in the ML system.
Common trend among the songs...very nasal sounding, even when mids, treble and bass were switched over with different combos. Bass is fair to good. Midbass is MUDDY. Treble sounds like it's dipping in response in wide areas and too "hot" in others. Even if the response were smoothed out, the titanium sounds too hot. Too bright. With the surround ON it sounded like absolute crap. With it OFF, it's tolerable, but not by much.
I give the ML GS430 an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE. Load up Avrils DVD, Under my skin. Kick the surround ON. 5.1 channels. Retune. +4 bass, +3 mids, +5 tweets, though I try various combos. I'm hoping that with the "advanced processing power/DSP" that it'll work. The result...DISAPPOINTING. Sounds like the format wasn't even switched over. Now you'd think that with 24 bit/96khz, DSP and all of the techno hype market babble that it would work. IT DOESN'T.
On the brochure it looks great. Titanium. Neodynium. DSP. 24bit. MARK LEVINSON. LEXUS. Flashy flashy. Ooh yay!
Bottom line.
CRAP.
Save the grand. You can do better. I'll wait until Mark Levinson comes out with a REAL system. In the meantime, Dyns with Pionner OUTPERFORM the Mark Levinson GS430.
How do the Dyns/Pioneer sound? Mids are much less nasal. Midbass isn't muddy. Treble is fairly sweet and flowing. No hot spots and it's not bright enough to torture the ear. Vocals are much smoother, more REAL. After 15 minutes of listening to the ML, I just plain shut it off. Got tired of it TRYING to perform like a real system. All the gizmos can't cover up a system that has NO SOUL, NO RHYTHM, NO BALANCE. When the engineers at ML took acoustical readings, they probably only took one sampling at the center of the armrest. It MIGHT sound good to the untrained ear, but for those that have even a LITTLE audiophile in us, we'll notice it right away.
Here's the kicker. I've listened to the ML in a LS430 and it outperformed my Pioneer/Dyn system by 10 percent. Absolutely great sounding system. The GS430 ML system has sounded DISAPPOINTING no matter what I did for tuning. Now the IS...Haven't listened to it yet, but highly doubt that they'll bring it up to the LS430 level. If you already have the ML/IS combo, SWAP the speakers out. While you're at it, disconnect the stupid 2.5 inch mids. They're quite distracting sonically. The ML in the GS430 had the mid/tweets firing up the window, a different plane than the midwoofers firing at the feet. Quite a bit of phase difference. Also seems like there is no time correction at all.
I'm very insulted at the level of "quality" of the ML drivers. Paper sub? Harsh tweet? Nasal midwoofer? Hate to put it this way, but any kid in a Civic that has a decent AFTERMARKET system will whip the ML and have it begging for it's mommy.
Leaving the ML in stock form? NOT RECOMMENDED. Changing out the speakers...A MUST. I notice that the S/N ratio isn't that high. Channel seperation seems a bit weak. Or it could be that the drivers are completely masking everything and making it sound like crap. I've had entry level Alpine cd changers that sounded better than this.
F#1 Status killing the ML...no prob. Gotta get one to show the bozo enginners at Mark Levinson how it SHOULD sound. Load up Dyns to let them listen to how it SHOULD be done.
BAH. ML HUMBUG.
Percy
We take a look at the Pioneer system. In it's stock form it's a worthy advesary among the OEM makers. Drop the stocks, bolt the Dyns on. Like going from yellow belt to black belt. Jumping the ranks.
Mark Levinson. The name itself rings familiarity among the golden ear critics. 100,000 dollar systems come to mind. Their "affordable" CD player runs several thousand dollars. Forget about the model numbers...the ML components go by "No. 39" or "No. 36". If they could get away with it, they'd have a killer component setup called "No. 007". Gotta have the class to fit the aura.
6 disc mag is popped and dropped from the GS. New 430 w/ ML has the disc changer built in. Gotta load the ammo face side up, shiny side down. 6 shots. Takes time. If this were a gunfight, the person loading would be dead. Anyone got a speedloader?
Exploring the options. Pressing the Audio button, there's a selection for Surround and ASL. Also settings for Bass, Mid and Treble.
First tune pops up. Five for Fighting. "She will be loved". For those that know the song (and most do), it starts off with a nice beat. Vocals next. Tune it according to ear to what sounds best. +4 for Bass, +1 for Mid, +3 for Treble. Listen to the tune. Vocals colored and nasal sounding. Play with the mid control some more. No go. Sounds either bad or worse. Bass...good in some spots but mostly muddy. Overpowered midbass. Treble, high hats sound fair at best. Seems like a big dip in frequency response.
Bowling for Soup. 1985. Starts off with guitars, distorted on purpose. Kinda crunchy. Same effect...vocals nasal sounding. Tweeters too bright, even when turned all the way down. RINGING from titanium. The tweeter doesn't sound like it has any damping material behind the cone...might be bare neo metal that the soundwave is bouncing against. Notice that the imaging is very sensitive to head placement so I raise and lower position to get the best sound. Even moving so much as 1 inch to the right or left will yield very different results. I stay in the "sweet spot", which is fairly small.
I go through quite a few more tracks. 99 Luftballoons/Nena. Walk like an egyptian/Bangles. Come on Eileen/Dexy's Midnight runners. Nothings gonna stop us/Starship. After the thrill is gone/Eagles. Theme from Superman (TV)/5 for fighting. Even a tune from little Avril lavigne. Avril makes a good test since there is SO MUCH going on in the recording. You need outstanding channel seperation as well as a really good signal to noise ratio and some high resolution speakers to pick everything out. With Avril loaded, the music just turns to MUSH in the ML system.
Common trend among the songs...very nasal sounding, even when mids, treble and bass were switched over with different combos. Bass is fair to good. Midbass is MUDDY. Treble sounds like it's dipping in response in wide areas and too "hot" in others. Even if the response were smoothed out, the titanium sounds too hot. Too bright. With the surround ON it sounded like absolute crap. With it OFF, it's tolerable, but not by much.
I give the ML GS430 an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE. Load up Avrils DVD, Under my skin. Kick the surround ON. 5.1 channels. Retune. +4 bass, +3 mids, +5 tweets, though I try various combos. I'm hoping that with the "advanced processing power/DSP" that it'll work. The result...DISAPPOINTING. Sounds like the format wasn't even switched over. Now you'd think that with 24 bit/96khz, DSP and all of the techno hype market babble that it would work. IT DOESN'T.
On the brochure it looks great. Titanium. Neodynium. DSP. 24bit. MARK LEVINSON. LEXUS. Flashy flashy. Ooh yay!
Bottom line.
CRAP.
Save the grand. You can do better. I'll wait until Mark Levinson comes out with a REAL system. In the meantime, Dyns with Pionner OUTPERFORM the Mark Levinson GS430.
How do the Dyns/Pioneer sound? Mids are much less nasal. Midbass isn't muddy. Treble is fairly sweet and flowing. No hot spots and it's not bright enough to torture the ear. Vocals are much smoother, more REAL. After 15 minutes of listening to the ML, I just plain shut it off. Got tired of it TRYING to perform like a real system. All the gizmos can't cover up a system that has NO SOUL, NO RHYTHM, NO BALANCE. When the engineers at ML took acoustical readings, they probably only took one sampling at the center of the armrest. It MIGHT sound good to the untrained ear, but for those that have even a LITTLE audiophile in us, we'll notice it right away.
Here's the kicker. I've listened to the ML in a LS430 and it outperformed my Pioneer/Dyn system by 10 percent. Absolutely great sounding system. The GS430 ML system has sounded DISAPPOINTING no matter what I did for tuning. Now the IS...Haven't listened to it yet, but highly doubt that they'll bring it up to the LS430 level. If you already have the ML/IS combo, SWAP the speakers out. While you're at it, disconnect the stupid 2.5 inch mids. They're quite distracting sonically. The ML in the GS430 had the mid/tweets firing up the window, a different plane than the midwoofers firing at the feet. Quite a bit of phase difference. Also seems like there is no time correction at all.
I'm very insulted at the level of "quality" of the ML drivers. Paper sub? Harsh tweet? Nasal midwoofer? Hate to put it this way, but any kid in a Civic that has a decent AFTERMARKET system will whip the ML and have it begging for it's mommy.
Leaving the ML in stock form? NOT RECOMMENDED. Changing out the speakers...A MUST. I notice that the S/N ratio isn't that high. Channel seperation seems a bit weak. Or it could be that the drivers are completely masking everything and making it sound like crap. I've had entry level Alpine cd changers that sounded better than this.
F#1 Status killing the ML...no prob. Gotta get one to show the bozo enginners at Mark Levinson how it SHOULD sound. Load up Dyns to let them listen to how it SHOULD be done.
BAH. ML HUMBUG.
Percy
Last edited by Percy; 10-20-05 at 10:14 PM.
10-20-05, 10:38 PM
#59
Originally Posted by GonzoBuggs
I wouldnt get on a plane. I would call a dealer and buy over the phone. Commission a shipping company to ship your vehicle to the closest port or your doorstep. You can get enclosed shipping from $995 to $2,000. Open shipping is usually no more than $1200. This is from coast to coast.
Most people will think the cost of that is silly but, to me, it beats a 4 month wait!
Most people will think the cost of that is silly but, to me, it beats a 4 month wait!
i listened to the base stereo and it sounded good, but i think it could sound better.
10-21-05, 12:48 AM
#60
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so for the new IS?
Percy, what would you do for the stock Pioneer system in the IS250/350?
Stock speakers are 1", 2½" & 6½" in each door and an 8" "subwoofer" on the rear shelf.
Would you run Dynaudio speakers two-way in each door, with their MD 100 tweeter and MW 160 low-range, which should be close substitutes for the smallest and largest of the stock speakers? In that event, I assume you'd use the Dynaudio two-way cross-over.
Or would you recommend a three-way system using Dynaudio speakers? If so, please elaborate.
In either case, would you substitute the Dynaudio MW 180 or MW 190 for the stock subwoofer?
Finally, if you were doing this in phases, which speakers would you replace first, i.e., what's the most bang for the buck? I'd assume the front speakers.
Thanks,
cooney
Stock speakers are 1", 2½" & 6½" in each door and an 8" "subwoofer" on the rear shelf.
Would you run Dynaudio speakers two-way in each door, with their MD 100 tweeter and MW 160 low-range, which should be close substitutes for the smallest and largest of the stock speakers? In that event, I assume you'd use the Dynaudio two-way cross-over.
Or would you recommend a three-way system using Dynaudio speakers? If so, please elaborate.
In either case, would you substitute the Dynaudio MW 180 or MW 190 for the stock subwoofer?
Finally, if you were doing this in phases, which speakers would you replace first, i.e., what's the most bang for the buck? I'd assume the front speakers.
Thanks,
cooney