perejnar

Hello, Lexus owners!

I'm currently like a teenager in love, having discovered Lexus when looking for a new car.
After trying a Lexus rx400h and 450h I immediately ditched Mercedes ML and Volvo XC90 which were my other candidates.

However, now I'm struggling with the choice between three selected used cars and would appreciate your input.

Candidate 1:
2007 rx400h
Mileage: 113 000km / 70 000 miles (all milage in Norway on bumby and curvy roads)
Price: 29 700$ / 250 000 NOK (yes, cars are expensive in Norway)
The car is here (Norwegian sales site): http://www.finn.no/finn/car/used/obj...nkode=60865367

My evaluation:
In very good shape, except for a tiny damage in the back seat (which can be fixed). Drives well, but a bit heavy on the steering compared to the rx450h I drove. Could be wrong air pressure in tires or something else that could be adjusted.
Fairly well equipped, but lacks sun roof and roof rails(which is a must have for me and I'm not sure if I can get)
Older model, not newest, although not outdated, technology.
Initial investment is low, but then again it's an 8 year old car.
Could be a sensible purchase - and the money saved could be invested elsewhere. Sold privately, no guarantee.
Think it's quite funny with a tape/cassette player in a 2007 model car.


Candidate 2
2009 rx450h
Mileage: 158 000km / 89 000 miles (only driven in Germany with long distances and on nice, flat roads with little curves)
Price: 44 000$ / 370 000NOK
http://www.finn.no/finn/car/used/obj...nkode=61286001

My evaluation:
Directly from Germany. All services at the same Lexus dealer. Not worried about wear from milage, but a bit concerned about second handing it in xx year when it will have passed 200 000km.
Slightly better driving experience in the rx450h, but not a major difference.
Premium model with pretty much all cool the extras and the seats with ventilation and cooling), mark levinson, rear and side camera, park assist, HUD
Lacks rails, but at least I rails are available.
Newer model, newer technology, better milage
Initial investment a lot higher than the 2007, but a newer generation car.


Candidate 3
2009 rx450h
Mileage: 80 000 km / 49 000 miles (most driven in Germany with long distances and on nice, flat roads with little curves, some driven on bumpy and curvy Norwegian roads)
Price: 49 400$ / 415 000NOK
http://www.finn.no/finn/car/used/obj...nkode=56983555

My evaluation:
Better milage, expecially with regards to second handing it later on.
Executive, so a lot less extras / cool stuff than the other 450.
Does have the regular seats which I'm afraid could feel clammy.
Has rails and a skibox in the cars colour, but lacks towbar which I need to install.
Compared to candidate 2, is it worth ditching all the techology to get a car with half the milage for almost the same price? I have a feeling it still could be harder to sell in later on, than the premium with higher mileage..

I would be grateful for any advice that could help me decide? :-)

BTW, do I need roof rails to use a rack on the car or is it possible to mount roof racks in the mounting wholes for the rails?

Edit: after thinking about it today, I think the choice really is between candidate 1 and 3 now, leaning mostly against candiate 1 as a "lexus start car" with a thought of replacing it for a 2011/2012 in a couple of years.

jooksing82

Wow that is pricey in Norway! I think the Rx450H is much nicer overall than the Rx400h. Personally I do not like the console between the Driver and passenger. But the parking sensors and blind spot sensors are nice. The NAV system is better too! I hate how i can not play music through Bluetooth on the Rx400h. The money difference is significant between your options. All comes down to how money you willing to part with. If its not a bank breaker, the 450 is the way to go! How much is a new Rx450H?

perejnar

I totally agree that looking at the cars individually (regardless of cost/age etc), the 450 is even more car than the 400, newer hybrid technology, and more technology both on the practical and safety side.
Neither of the cars are a bank breaker. However, due to our insane high taxes in Norway which makes heavy cars with lots of horse power really expensive and since these taxes are being evaluated (which could make the rx450h a lot cheaper in the next couple of years), I'm looking for the most sensible buy at this point. So, that's why I'm considering a 400 which will cost a lot less and on which I'll lose a lot less money over the next couple of years.

A new rx450h in Norway currently costs $105 000 for the edition 25 and $120 000 for the premier edition.
As a comparison, since our government has cut taxes for electric cars, a brand new Tesla model S "only" costs $100 000.

So, for the candidates above: after some research, I've found that candidate 3 has an incomplete service history. It was imported from Germany (which a lot of these second hand cars in Norway are) a little over a year ago the owner hasn't brought it in for service. It needs the 75 000km now and will reach the 90 000km service within the first year in my ownership. Furthermore, I need to invest in a towbar as well.
Also, the dealer doesn't have a complete list of what equipment the car holds and I know for sure it's a lot less than in the luxury model. I've found out for sure that it has a regular suspension (not active stabilizor nor air). Not sure how much it affects the driving experience, though.
So, I'm getting a bad gut feeling for this one, actually, although the price I've bargained it down to is really good compared to similar cars in the market.

For the 400, I quite agree that not being able to play music through bluetooth is a great disadvantage. However, i see that there are solutions that can be bought to mount in the car to resolve this (surprisingly easy to install as well, it seems).
The 400 has a complete history record at a norwegian dealer and has had the major service at 90 000km.
I'm thinking this will be a good car to have for a year or two and then change to a newer one, e.g. a rx450h 2011/2012 model.
If the taxes are regulated the way they indicate, the rx450h prices could possibly go down 1¤2-20 000 if they remove the power and weight taxes and instead increase the CO2 and NOX-taxes.

Seems like I've almost made up my mind, but I'm still open for any input. :-)

kitlz

perejnar, welcome to CL. You have quite the decision to make. Can I suggest reading through this thread from Bert where he made a comparison between the 450h and 400h. He didn't leave a single detail out! But keep in mind he has a 2013 with the spindle grill so some features may be different in addition to the fact you're in Norway. Even model years are slightly different. Still I think he wrote one of the best reviews. Now I haven't personally driven a 400h but I did have a 330. They are different enough in styling, ride and features that you would be better off driving both generations. Maybe start with option 1 and 3 like you mentioned. I wish you the best of luck and hope you're behind the wheel of an RXh very soon.

perejnar

Thanks for the input, Kitlz. I forgot to mention in My original post that I had already read Bert's review, as I knew some of the enlightened people in this forum would refer to it. :-)
I love how people share their experience, knowledge and passion for Lexus in this forum.
I have driven both the 450 and the 400. No doubt the 450 is a bit better, but for my first lexus and given the complicated assumptions and criterias above, the difference in driving experience is not huge enough to help my decision greatly.
However, I feel quite certain that I will be happy whatever I decide, so may be I'm just wasting time thinking it over this much. :-)

jooksing82

If the cost is not an issue you buy a 450h over here int he states I will be glad to keep an eye on it for you

But I think you are over analyzing if you are planning to keep the car for 2 years and you said you will likely be happy either either one. Not sure what vehicle you are driving now, but mine was quite an upgrade the previous car So I was happy. But when I took my 400h for recall service and they loan me a 2014 model I felt mine was outdated and not as nice anymore!

I have an Mpow FM BT transmitter but it still does not work as nice. I am a tech geek so if my vehicle had apps and etc would be a big plus. I got a after market tow bar for fairly cheap but some people are cautious using this car to tow because the repairs are so $$$. Good luck on your decision.

perejnar

haha, I didn't say it's not an issue, did I ? :-)
But I can afford either one (or at least the bank can), so it's more a question of deciding which is a better buy.
I'm a techie myself, so that is actually an argument against the 450 is it is a version with a lot less of the cool stuff than I would want if I were to get a 450 (candidate 2 has most of the cool stuff,but too high mileage IMO).

You are probably right about me overanalyzing (I tend to do that when buying things that interest me). If I go with the 400 for now, I believe I will be happy, and even more happy when upgrading it later on.

Good strategy from your dealer to lend you a 2014 when yours were in for service. :-)

Thanks for your reply, jooksing!

jooksing82

Best depends what matters to you. Value wise the 400h wins. But the 450h has more car.Also one generation makes a big difference later down the road when you start feeling outdated.

I would not be concern with option 2. I bought mine with 95k miles. I expect the car to last at least 200k with modest care or 150k easily. If the battery dies I plan to replace it myself with aftermarket. With that in mind I should have at least 7 years worth of driving before looking at another. My eetimated cost for that is 3k. Hopefully i can get at least 6k resale at that point so my value per year is around 1.5k which I am happy with.
Thanks for the km/mi conversion btw! I enjoy the conversion too😄

perejnar

Definitely not concerned about the quality of the cars when the mileage gets high - that's one of the main reasons I testet the Lexus in the first place in stead of bying a Mercedes ML
The second hand value in Norway however, once the car gets near / has passed 200k km will drop significantly.

Anyway, decided last night to go for the 400 with fairly low milage (for it's age) for starters. Contract is signed and I will most likely be picking it up on Friday.
The car was recommended by the Lexus dealer due to a perfect service history.

perejnar

Are you saying the RX's doesn't handle towing very well?
I won't be using it much for towing, but it will pull our 2 ton caravan in vacations and occasional weekend trips.

rns

Both of them seem not to have tow hook installed but anyway get the one with removable hook. Mine is from Boh.se, it works but need nasty cut to the bumper.

My Rx400h has worked towing well, but the fuel consumption raise more than I would expect. I've pulled about 2000kg load too, mini excavator on trailer.
I could think you could overheat the inverter cooling system if constantly stressing it to the maximum. Luckily I and you don't live on the hottest climate but you have much more altitude variations with fjord och berg.
If you end up with Rx400h, check that I has been through inventer recall campaign.

Personally I would pick dark interior, I took a while find used Rx with black interior, any dirt is seen so easily, just concern about those two options you got..

Lykke till

perejnar

Agree that dark interior would be even better.
I went for the rx400h and I picked it up today. It has a towbar (original) and I liked the solution. Very easy to attach/take off..

Loved every bit of the 2 hour drive home from where I picked it up and I think this will be an excellent Lexus-start for me, but I'm sure it won't take more than a year or two until I upgrade to a n rx450h 2010/2011..

perejnar

Thanks, I will make sure to check that tomorrow, but I except it would have, since it has a spotless service history.

NickTee

What I want to know is how that compares to the cost of a new one and how the cost of parts is over there.

perejnar

Not quite sure what you are referring to? The price of a new car compared to the one I bought?
I mentioned the current price of a new rx450h in Norway.

The 2007 model rx400h I bought for 29 700 cost about $101 000 new back in 2007.

Parts are not that expensive. The reason the cars are so expensive is due to the heavy taxes on horse powers and weight.