jacksonlui

The real world results for mph on hybrids seem to vary quite a bit. It looks like from what I've read that it has something to do with how you drive your car. For example, if you drive mostly highway speeds you're using the gas engine more therefore might not benefit as much from the hybrid versus someone how drives a lot of stop and go traffic under 25mph.
If this is true , I've posted a graph of mph versus time for my one-way commute home.
Is there a way to tell how much I will benefit from a hybrid based on this info?
(I accidently paused it midway when I was going around 80mph and didn't record about 10miles of it.

Chris8152

Hi

Every person will get a different m.p.g when driving a car, but you are right the type of driving you do will affect your m.p.g in a hybrid car.

2008 – 2012 GS 450h se
Motorway ( freeway) driving 70mph - 36mpg
Around town 28mpg

2013 GS450h f sport
Motorway ( freeway) driving 70mph - 38mpg
Around town 35mpg

The new GS is a lot better mpg around town than the Mk3, this is due to the more economical engine and the revised hybrid system, but not a lot of difference on high speed roads.

In my 1500 miles I have only done 200 on motorways the rest is 5/6 mile trips so my average mpg is showing 35.8
The problem with only short trips is yes you are using the hybrid system more so getting a much better mpg, but the main battery is not being charged if the engine is not running, so I find that some times my engine is running even when stopped just to charge the main battery.
Last month I thought I had a problem with the car, as for 2 conceptive days the engine would not stop running, I took my car to the dealership and they told me that my main battery was very low and this can be a problem if you only do short trips, they advised to give the car a 10 mile motorway run every couple of weeks.

So my conclusion to the best mpg would be, 80% around town and 20% motorway driving.

chuckyarla

Hi Chris. Your post is very interesting. I have only had the GS450h for a couple of weeks and only done the 6 mile trip to and from work every day so far. The mpg seems to vary a lot. I enjoy Sport mode best regarding steering feel etc. Have you experimented much with the various modes and how they affect the mpg?

Chris8152

Hi

I have on the odd occasion used the other modes other than eco but must admit I haven’t experimented much with the different modes, not long enough to notice any major fuel change, as you no the car starts up in eco mode and as my journeys are so short I haven’t seen the point in changing it.
I also haven’t spent much time in AV mode, keep forgetting I have it.

Eco goes quite quick enough for me..lol

I did notice that you can still drive on batteries even in sports + mode.

The subject of mpg in different modes has come up on another forum I visit and the consensus is that it doesn’t seem to make to much difference, I suppose you can still drive economically even in sports+ mode, but like any other car if you floor it every were your mpg will go through the floor.

So what do you think of the car?
Have you got the MK3 OR MK4?
If you have the MK4 have you had a MK3 to compare it with?.

chuckyarla

I'm very impressed with the car so far. It is a MK4 and yes I did have a MK3 about 5 years ago. The MK3, although very swift, was not ecomomical and was full of rattles particularly in the dasboard area. I hate rattles and it ruined the pleasure of the car for me. I have had many cars since, ( the big three Germans plus Jag), and they have all had annoying rattles and creaks, until now, This car is the quietest, smoothest most comfortable car I have ever owned. The ride and handling are excellent as are the seats and standard stereo. The power is also great and because of the CO2 the road tax here is only €225. Insurance is quite high though. I would love a long run to see what kind of economy I could get.

jacksonlui

Here's the miles versus speed for this morning's commute to work.

At what speed does the engine kick in? 40mph?
It looks like I'm doing 60% engine / 40% hybrid if I use 40mph as the threshold where it switches over to the engine.

I'm assuming I get 20mph for a regular V6 gas engine traveling over a distance of 23miles each way.
Some quick math:
60% on hybrid and 40% on gas engine, I would be getting 33.33mpg. It's not a huge savings.
Also assuming gas at $3.70 per gallon I will save approximately $885 per year.
If the hybrid cost $10k more it'll take me 11 years to break even. Doesn't really seem it's worthwhile for me. Although I do like the benefits of less time filling gas which is always a pain, extra torque and quietness, cool factor, etc.. They've priced the hybrid such that the decision isn't a no brainer.

Chris8152

Do you get any other benefits having a hybrid in CA
In the UK we pay road tax
In a non hybrid car of similar engine size I would be paying £400 ( $600 ) a year
My hybrid is £130 ( $195),
But as you have worked out the extra cost of the hybrid will take a long time to break even, in the UK we don’t get a lot of choice, either the
GS 450h or GS250 petrol so the decision is a bit easer.
We do get the f sport in both vertions.

jacksonlui

the GS450H doesn't qualify for any tax breaks or incentives like driving in the car pool lane.
we don't have F sport, yet.
I have one 6 more months to go before I am buying so maybe more info or changes might sway me.

chuckyarla

Still, it could be worse, you could be paying $10 a gallon like us!

judoflip

Hey jackson, I bought a GS 450h in August in California and have been tracking my mpg. In your original post you said you'd read that you get less mpg highway and more street, the reverse is true for this car. Aside from pure EV mode (all electric) and coasting, my best mpg comes from constant speed driving with a fully charged battery in the 55 to 70 mph range. The gas engine stays at an efficient low rpm for your travel speed and the electric motor kicks in from time to time to keep you at speed -- this is all at constant and gas pedal pressure or cruise control on open road.

In stop & go, its true that the engine turns off when you fully stop or when you decelerate to less than 30mph, but you end up cancelling out that savings when you accelerate, particularly from a dead stop. The engine has to spin up and if your battery is low, it has to burn more gas to charge the battery and accelerate the car. When the engine is cold and the battery is low, it won't turn the engine off at all at a dead stop, so you're burning more than a standard car on idle.

I love the GS 450h, but I didn't get it for net fuel savings. It's best fit is as a luxury car with higher performance (can feel like a V-8 standard) than you'd expect for the MPG you get. It's also pretty nice to be able to drive the interior 5 level parking structure at work with the engine off, all EV, the whole time.

I'm spending one month in each mode and comparing. So far I've done Eco and Normal. Next month is Sport. There are subtle differences between Eco and Normal -- in Eco the engine tries harder to stay off and overall there seems to be slightly slower response/torque -- but in terms of MPG almost no difference for me.

jacksonlui

ok great. thanks for the info. emperical data is always better for me. i look forward to your conclusion(s).
this whole hybrid thing is a lot more complicated than I had thought and it's not as clear cut as I have made it out to be so all the calculations doesn't mean anything. i guess it's only $10k right? My daughter will just have to settle for a state college instead of ivy league =)

nantang

I've gotten between 35 and 36 mpg routinely, with mostly highway driving. A lot of it is with cruise control--but, with dynamic radar cruise control; I have the hard-to-find Pre-Collision System. It makes my car slow down when the car in front of me slows--which means I can stay in cruise longer, but it also means that my cruise control mpg readings won't be the same as someone benchmarking only steady speeds. I've had slowdowns but also some sudden brakes when someone pulls in front of me while poking along. I used Eco mode a lot early on, but most of the time these days, I'm driving either in Normal or Sport Plus. Windy conditions and driving at 75 mph (there's a stretch along one of my long commutes where that's the speed limit) will sometimes cut my "this tank" mpg closer to 32-33, but my mpg will creep back up with very little effort on my part.

I really think hybrid sports cars are among the most under-appreciated of vehicles. You have your cake and eat it, too. You can hypermile and still get muscle car performance. I just don't get the false dilemma that it's one or the other, when one considers the physics of instant torque.

MPAMDPHD

I'm getting around 31 MPG mixed city and freeway.

Tom450

With the clock reading of about 13K, my average mpg for this distance is just over 31mpg

Deven

I have been trying to see the maximum MPG I can get, and the most I have been able to do is 31mpg. We have great roads here in AZ, and with cruise control, 70-75mph flat smooth roads with no winds, it barely reaches 31mpg. I have yet to find any scenario where I get the 34-35mpg highway that I am supposed to get.

I have driven like a granny, trying to cruise as much as possible, but at the end, so far in 2 tankful, 29.5-30mpg is the average.

I am beginning to wonder if it is the 19" F sport wheels that are the problem. A while ago, on my LX, when I went from 16" OEM rims to 18" OEM rims, there was an immediate 10-13% reduction in MPG. Given the 450h probably achieves the ratings using the 18" wheels, it is possible that between the larger rims, and possibly increased rotational weight, that I am getting 10% less mpg.

I am going to post on the main forum to get an idea from people who went from 18" to 19" asymmetric OEM wheels, to see if they noticed a decrease in MPG.