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I see how 275/65/18's are a popular choice with some fender well liner rubbing and rubbing on the protruding screw/bolt head on the mud flap at the rear of the front wheel well.
Would the slightly narrower but slightly taller 265/70/18 fit just as well??? I don't see much talk about this size. It should be comparable to a 265/75/17 that is also pretty rarely talked about on 5th gen 4runner forums.
Most rubbing happens in turns, and it almost seems they would have comparable rubbing spots with the taller tire compensating by being narrower.
The specs of the 2 mounted on 8" rim:
265/70/18-- 32.6" diameter / 10.7" section width
275/65/18-- 32.1" diameter / 11.0" section width
These are P-rated, lightweight at 40lbs and 38.5lbs 116H highway tread tires so not expecting too much mpg/performance hit, but am more concerned with rubbing. I have had a dedicated offroader before with body and suspension lifts. This is not it and is a grocery-getter as it is almost 100% on paved, smooth roads
Changing that protruding screw/bolt head on mud flap to a flush mount/tapered screw seems to help (like a short sheetrock screw). And possibly minor heat gun work pushing the inner fender lining as needed. I don't want to really cut much, if at all.
Would these two changes be enough to eliminate most rubbing for a 99-100% street vehicle?
Would this tire size clear the UCA with standard premium (non-F-sport rims)?
Would rubbing be overly obnoxious? I am trying to see if that is mostly avoidable pulling into a parking spot/driveway with this setup.
I have seen at least one person with that tire size and no lift but they pulled off running boards and mud flaps for a completely different look/usage but they have F-sport rims that seem to have a lower offset (so are pushed more out). They also do a bit of offroading and also mention some rubbing on fender liner and body mount. Not sure if that is very comparable?
Would a wheel spacer help or hurt rubbing? I was thinking either: a) basic 10mm spacer (hopefully with hubcentric lip) that can hopefully re-use existing lug nuts (or not?), or b) 1-1.25" spidertraxx style if necessary to fully make the tires flush with outer wheel well (unless that would increase rubbing at this tire size).
On a side note, as 5th gen 4runner lift/leveling kits should work on non-luxury/non-airbagged GX's, I might put in a strut spacer/extension at just 1" to reduce the positive rake (nose-down look when looking from the side). Is this complicated with the KDSS swaybars and how long does it take? I might/might not do this so that should not be taken into account for tire clearance.
I would imagine 265/70/18 would rub more due to it being taller (despite narrower) than 275/65/18. In addition, with either sizes, you need to check to see if SPARE TIRE in those sizes fit underneath.
From what i gathered here...spacers make rubbing worst.
Leftyguns is pure stock with regular non-F-sport rims like myself and seems to have cleared the UCA and only had rubbing on the mudflap bolt head on the back of the front wheel well which he fixed by removing the bolt and gluing it in place. As far as I know, he doesn't have any more rubbing ???? That is the big question for me. Anyone else run this size? For all who have, is the mud flap bolt head the main and only issue? Would left/right turns at speed at intersections make rub noise or even going into parking spots or your driveway?
I would be ok with doing minor heat gun work but will not cut or do a Body Mount Chop. I have had different lifted vehicles with 35's which had minor rub until a lift, but I want this vehicle mostly stock but not make obnoxious tire rub noise turning into a parking spot. This is still a luxury vehicle. Main reason for doing this in the first place is the giant wheel well gap and tiny tires on the GX looks crazy to me.
I am looking at pure highway tread tires. In 265/70/18 size, there are about a dozen brands around $100 each with 560AA specs or even better. So no AT tires. One reason can be less noise, but my main reason is that my GX (and I assume many of yours) don't brake like my Mercedes (or any car) in the rain, and HT/HP tread maneuvers and brakes way better on-road than any AT tire without water siping. I deal with a lot of rain. I have had a couple of close calls in the GX that would not even give me a second thought in my car. Surprisingly weak rain performance. It is honestly to be expected from a 5000lb SUV, but AT tires would be worse in the rain despite anyone else's claims. Plus, these should last a lot longer than the not even 25k I am getting on the factory original Bridgestone Dueler 840 HPs (300BA utqg) that are completely worn out like how everyone complains about. It is mostly for aesthetics/looks.
As for the spare, I only plan on buying 4. If I ever get a flat, I plan on driving no more than 15 miles at most with the stock spare to get home (if at all) to reduce stress on the fulltime4wd. I may try to fit/force in a used tire in the larger size that may be easier to fit as I know space is tight underneath but slightly more available on the 2015+ GX's like I have.
I’ve had 265/70/18 in stock suspension for months.
Rubs at the factory UCA, front plastic fender, and rear bolt holding the plastic. I recently noticed some rubbing on the frame, but this was only noticed after installing aftermarket lift and UCA.
As for the spare, I only plan on buying 4. If I ever get a flat, I plan on driving no more than 15 miles at most with the stock spare to get home (if at all) to reduce stress on the fulltime4wd. I may try to fit/force in a used tire in the larger size that may be easier to fit as I know space is tight underneath but slightly more available on the 2015+ GX's like I have.
From just improving the tire well look, just go with 265/65/18. Going to your sizes will create rub, speedometer errors, acceleration loss, etc.. esp since you're not going to use the bigger sizes for off-roading. You're doing this mainly for looks.
As for spare, it is just not only about the 4wd system, but also VSC and traction control depend on correct sized tires; otherwise, it may intervene while you're driving because rotation speed differences between your tires and the spare.
ALWAYS make your spare the same diameter or at least within ballpark as your main tires. Just get a really cheap spare...but same size (if it fits down there).
Just traded my 2014 GX (had the KDSS lean) with almost 100k for a 2017 GX with 13k miles on it and no KDSS lean. On my 14 I installed 275 65 18 and had minimal rub on the fender liner on the passenger side. I swapped out my wheels and tires to the new GX and have zero rub, even when I turn the wheel the entire way. There’s such a minimal difference in the tires you asking about I’d suggest going with the 275 66 18. I’ve ordered a set of OME BP-51’s to replace the stock suspension as well as some spc uca’s. Honestly, I’m not even going to lift it....I need a better suspension for miles and miles of driving large tracts of land (no pavement) for my job. The 275 65’s look perfect imo and the extra width adds to the aggressive look. Worst case is the tire store installs them and (265) and they rub....so you go with 275.
I don't want to risk gouging a tire sidewall with UCA rubbing. As wide wheelspacers/adapters make rubbing worse with already large tires, has anyone tried the thin wheel spacers, like 1/4" that usually don't require longer studs to prevent minor UCA rub??? Possible problem is that some 4runner forums (mostly 4th gen) mention shorter 40mm front wheel studs than the back (44mm) that can't even accommodate a thin 1/4" spacer. Is this still true/applicable to us? Anyone know the wheel stud lengths front and back?
Anyone use a 1/4" wheel spacers. I have seen some with 108mm centerbore that matches ours and would be relatively hubcentric.
Originally Posted by lexus817
I’ve had 265/70/18 in stock suspension for months.
Rubs at the factory UCA, front plastic fender, and rear bolt holding the plastic. I recently noticed some rubbing on the frame, but this was only noticed after installing aftermarket lift and UCA.
no rubbing should be achievable since it has been experienced on other GXs. A good alignment shop can adjust in a way to eliminate the rubbing. There's enough adjustment leeway that the stock tire size can be aligned yet rub with bigger tires, because it wasnt adjusted with the bigger tires.
Because the rubbing is minimal, certain adjustments will eliminate the rubbing. its not random or due to build tolerances.
even if the vehicle is properly aligned, a realignment can be done that moves the wheel position and the vehicle is still aligned properly.
No rub in turns, bumps, full lock, half turns, reversing while turning from driveways/inclines, nothing.
In advance of putting on the tires, I did push the front fender liner forward about 1/2-3/4" with redrilling 2 of the 3 holes at the bottom of the bumper on each side (i will get to the middle one but skipped for now).
This was easy and involved no cutting and looks fsctory and can be undone.
Removing the bolt at the rear side of the front fender is easy but not enough to prevent rubbing. This was more challenging, but I ended up pinning/pulling back the inner fender and edge of the running board from thst same screw hole...just replaced it with a metal bolt and pulled the bolt from the other side with zip ties. The hardest part was figuring how to pull it back and what would be the attachment point. The BMC is the wrong angle so I actually went to the first bracket of the running board to the body. That is over a foot and required looping a couple of zip ties to make that distance but it pulled the fender and plastic running board edge back perfectly. Can be easily undone, nothing permanent.
I feel that I have, without a doubt, gotten the most out of the fenderwell without permanent cutting, and probably got more space than some who did cut. I feel I could even go to a larger size. Not much larger, but 275/65/18 (33.2") is a definite maybe that may have minor rubbing, but most likely would require a 1/4" or 0.75" wheel spacer to clear the UCA.
Not much larger, but 275/65/18 (33.2") is a definite maybe that may have minor rubbing, but most likely would require a 1/4" or 0.75" wheel spacer to clear the UCA.
You might want to recheck the size on the 275/65/18. It's a shorter tire than a 265/70/18.
It looks like you're quoting the diameter from the 275/70/18 which is a bit taller than a 33.
You might want to recheck the size on the 275/65/18. It's a shorter tire than a 265/70/18.
It looks like you're quoting the diameter from the 275/70/18 which is a bit taller than a 33.
Yes, the 275/70/18 (33.2"/11.0"wide) is what I meant. My P-rated 265/70/18 (32.6"/10.7"wide) tires are highway tread and only 40lbs, just 3lbs over the 37lb OEM bridgestone dueler ht 265/60/18 (30.5"). NO DISCERNIBLE PERFORMANCE HIT despite much larger rotational circumference. WIN! WIN! I just looked and 275/70/18's are pretty much only available in LT and from 49lbs to 62bs. I would definitely notice the weight, slower acceleration, noise and rougher ride. Other people here would prefer those tires despite the weight.
Originally Posted by John00
good feedback
if you have time maybe some pics to go along with it
I have a few pics. I just realized none are of the truck overall and my girl just took it to work. But I have pics of the mods I made.
The front fenderwell mod is easy. Passenger front fenderwell before mod. Note the fenderwell liner at outer/bottom as it attaches to outer bumper. Only small lip visible.
Passenger front edge of front fenderwell--pushed forward 1/2"-3/4". Much bigger lip visible at outer bottom as liner attaches to outer bumper. Consistent increased clearance across width of liner.
If someone lies on the ground and looks at the bottom of the front bumper, there are 2 screws and 1 bolt (all come off with 10mm socket) that connect it to the front inner fender well liner.
Before mod. These are the 3 fittings that connect passenger front bumper to the front/inner fenderwell. Center one with thick rubber washer is a bolt, the other two are screws with s-clip fasteners. The left one is the outermost, the right one is innermost and least visible. As seen from in front of and beneath vehicle
These have to be removed so that you can push the front fenderwell forward. While pushing it forward about 1/2"-3/4", I used a thin punch to mark my holes and used a 3/16" bit to drill the holes larger. I started at the outer/most lateral hole, then did the innermost. All of the new holes were only about 1/2"-3/4" away from original holes. All of the factory hardware can be reused except I used a new bolt, nut and washers to replace innermost screw as the S-shaped clip would get in the way and would require cutting which I didn't want. Instead I used 1/4" bolt, washers and nut. Very minor with easy access to the innermost as it can be reached from the top as well as by hand. I forced through a 1-inch long 1/4" bolt through the newly drilled hole. Use nylon nut or drop of loctite so they won't back off if you want. The outer s-clip fit back on and I re-used its screw. Sounds harder than it is. There is so much front room with the bigger tires, I can't imagine them ever rubbing up front. The holes are completely hidden and can be reversed to stock condition with no one ever knowing. Everything looks original either way. I should disassemble mine to show where I punched the holes so you can just copy what I did.
The other side of the fender well (rear side of the inner front liner) is another matter. The "infamous screw".
The infamous screw at the rear side of the front fenderwell along with its push-in threaded part that is recessed in the fenderwell that you can pry out with flathead screwdriver. I took out both pieces and replaced with flat head bolt in pic below
Removing it is super easy (10mm or screwdriver) and can give you a 1/4" of extra clearance just by itself. But under compression, lots of people report rubbing on turns with just 265/65/18 (31.5"), over an inch smaller than mine. I knew this area had to be pulled back as I was NOT going to CUT anything. Many of you take out the screw or even replace it with another flush-top screw yet still get rubbing at this spot. I removed this screw as well as its recessed threaded base (with a flathead screwdriver) and a little patience (no reason to mangle it). I put in a 1-1/2" long 1/4" flat top bolt instead with a thin rubber washer through the hole. The bolt head is actually about an inch in diameter. This is to spread out the stress by pulling the bolt across a wider area. This area connects the inner fenderwell to the plastic edge of the running board. The rubber washer prevents scratching, distributes load.
Driver side, rear of front fender well. Large-face Silver bolt with rubber washer replaces the "infamous" factory screw and its plastic recessed thread assembly. This is before being pulled back from the inside.
So how do you connect a zip tie to the shank of a 1/4" bolt on the other side? Oversized washers: Hillman 5/8" (part 491418) flat washers. I looped a zip tie through the gap between washer/bolt and capped the end with a wing nut (you can use another smaller washer and nylon nut instead) to finish it up.
This goes on bolt's shank on the back side of the fender liner and held in place with a wingnut in my example. You can instead hold this in with a smaller washer and nut.
I had to use needle nose pliers to hold one wing of the wing nut while threading the bolt on the other side (most difficult part due to limited clearance. You can close the zip tie around the oversized washer before putting it all together as it can be hard to reach once installed. 1.5" long 1/4" bolt replacing "infamous screw". This connects the inner edge of the hard running board plastic to the less rigid plastic inner liner behind it. Oversized washer with looped zip tie on inserted shank. Before the hard part of threading a bolt/wing nut on the end. Rounded edge of Body mount visible at bottom-right of pic
I used wingnuts held with needlenose pliers as this was more proof of concept and needed to undo everything if it was a fail. It is tough to get the bolt threaded, but takes only a couple of minutes. Can be done with a washer/nut instead but will require equal patience. Toughest part of the whole job by far is getting it to thread the bolt at first.
You have to lie on your back underneath to do all this (clear glasses helps with falling dirt from getting in your eyes).
Tightened up with wing nut. Zip tie to be pulled back, giving more clearance
Now, where to attach it to to pull back the bolt? The body mount was kind of close but the wrong angle. I had to use the bracket that connects the running board to the frame. I closed a zip tie around it and closed the gap with the first zip tie with other zip ties.
The running board to frame bracket that is the attachment point for everything to be pulled towards. Maybe a little over a foot from the screw. I recommend thicker, longer zip ties.
I used 11-inch zip ties. They are kind of thin. I may re-do this with wider, longer zip ties or a homemade metal bracket to be more heavy duty. Nothing is visible, but darker zip ties may blend in better. The distance from the back of the fender to the runningboard-frame bracket is over a foot but perfectly aligned to pull back the inner fender/plastic running board edge.
Zip ties from "running board-to-frame bracket" on left connecting forward/"right in pic" to my inner fenderwell bolt (not visible). Cut the leftover pieces off zip ties. Push fenderwell bolt towards rear as pulling one of the middle zip ties tight to keep it in place. Notice how body mount on right of pic angles forward the more lateral/"up" it is. This is one reason why negative offset wheels and wheel spacers create more rub with much larger tires. The other is design of inner fenderwell has less space as it reaches laterally to metal fender.
I pushed the fender back at the bolt I put in and pulled the zip ties tight to hold it in place. I could feel the 1/4" bolt I put in rest against the inner part of the fender well so it is all the way. A shorter bolt (1") is possible but may be impractical as it would be even harder to put it together with the zip tied washer, wing nut, etc and may put more angled stress on the plastic edge of the plastic running board edge you are pulling back out of the way. I have over an inch of clearance throughout steering rotation lock-to-lock with 265/70/18. This can be reversed to stock condition as no cutting was done. I used way too many zip ties (5 on the first side as in the picture, 4 on the other) and could have done it with perhaps 3 if I didn't pull them too short. Three would be ideal with one around washer, one around running board bracket and one in the middle to pull everything together. Easier to use thicker, maybe 15-18" zip ties.
I did a lot of this as a test right before putting on my bigger tires so I may put a drop of loctite on some bolts/wing nuts to prevent backing out or change some of the bolts/washers/zip ties I used.
thanks for the pics
many times the black zip ties have anti UV in them, so any exposed i usually use black with anti UV
This was a test run, so I fully intend to change some of the bolts, nuts, fittings. Everything is fully reversible with no hint there was a mod. Even now, everything looks completely factory except the large-face silver bolt head which can easily be painted black. On the rear of the front fender, the bolt pulled everything back about an inch which is a good amount considering this is the first place rubbing will occur with larger tires. 1" extra space from tire to fenderwell = 2" larger tires that wouldn't fit otherwise.
The area around the bolt of rear of the front fenderwell is now flush with body mount (hard to realize in the picture) so it did a decent job. This is just to show how the inner fender is flush with the body mount (shiny black piece behind fender). This angle makes it look as if the tire is very close to the fender but I have about 1-3/8\" at its closest point with tire at around half-turned (highest risk of rubbing in this area). I will show in another pic. This is with 265/70/18
I think a 275/70/18 (33.2"), almost a true 34" tire (which run 33.5"), will fit with either no or intermittent rubbing. For offroaders, that may be worth something. I need to put some pics up of current setup from the side so people can see how big these 265/70/18's (32.6") are to have ZERO rub.
My tires are basically the same as 33" tires that really run 32.5" (look at bfg, cooper or michelin specs to see for yourself).
I also now realize that the "tucked in" look of the factory tires is much less with bigger tires even though the tires are the same width and there has been no change in offset/backspace. I don't think they looked "tucked in" at all anymore. Most of the issue seems to have been the odd fender-to-wheel gap.
A 1/4" wheel spacer would be nice to complete the look, but I brought up the whole other topic where this is practically impossible with the ridiculously short front wheel studs that are inexplicably shorter on the front than the rears on 4Runners, GX's and Tacomas. The work changing wheel studs for a 1/4" doesn't make sense. 0.75" Bora wheel spacer/adapters would be cheaper, but may also rub, maybe not).
I still have the 1.25" wheel spacers. I will give it a go eventually because I realize I have pushed back the inner fender liner as much as possible without serious cutting to achieve the same clearance. If it is at all possible, I will have given it the best chance. If it doesn't work, they are going on a Tacoma 4x4 which has the same tucked in appearance. The Tacoma is lightweight in comparison so wheels/studs snapping off should be less of a concern if installed properly.
07-06-19, 11:53 PM
265/70/18 on no lift...possible with minor mods?
