Body on Frame vs. Unibody Discussion Continued
#31
Both Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are just cars. So where is the better build quality (not the interior materials, but durability of the chassis) comes from?
#32
Lexus Fanatic
LOL, the Grand Cherokee is not a car. Its a very capable unibody SUV, as it always has been. Like I said before, I'd put the Grand Cherokee up against any vehicle off-road any day. You can believe what you want, but reality is reality.
The Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are in different classes just as the RX and GX are.
You keep trying to make this about the Jeep, and it's not. It's about unibody vs BOF SUVs. You're not a Jeep fan...I'm not a GX fan but at least I can cede that it's a capable vehicle.
The Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are in different classes just as the RX and GX are.
You keep trying to make this about the Jeep, and it's not. It's about unibody vs BOF SUVs. You're not a Jeep fan...I'm not a GX fan but at least I can cede that it's a capable vehicle.
#33
Racer
So by your logic we shouldnt trust that the GX can even tow 6,500 lbs? Or does that logic only apply to vehicles that you don't own or like?
Yes, I do trust manufacturer tow ratings, they are monitored by the DOT and NHTSA. Overstating the tow rating of a vehicle would be hugely dangerous.
That one race modified Jeep (which had previously won rally events), and that was a generation older than the current GC blew a head gasket. ***** happens. I'm on a huge Jeep owners forum and there are many people that tow up to the limit and have no issues, there are no widespread issues with the Hemi motor, its a pretty tried and true motor. Plenty of electrical issues, but mechanically not a lot.
Here's a thread on an Australian owners site where a member had a blown engine in a Prado:
http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forum...18758-100.html
Its meaningless.
And again, the discussion is not about engines...its about unibody vs BOF construction.
Yes, I do trust manufacturer tow ratings, they are monitored by the DOT and NHTSA. Overstating the tow rating of a vehicle would be hugely dangerous.
That one race modified Jeep (which had previously won rally events), and that was a generation older than the current GC blew a head gasket. ***** happens. I'm on a huge Jeep owners forum and there are many people that tow up to the limit and have no issues, there are no widespread issues with the Hemi motor, its a pretty tried and true motor. Plenty of electrical issues, but mechanically not a lot.
Here's a thread on an Australian owners site where a member had a blown engine in a Prado:
http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forum...18758-100.html
Its meaningless.
And again, the discussion is not about engines...its about unibody vs BOF construction.
tundra towed space shuttle at 300000lbs
the specs on websites are there like you said, rated by DOT.
in reality, can easily tow more than that. BOF wins here
#35
Lead Lap
I've driven the GX multiple times and its a very nice vehicle, but it is certainly clunkier handling onroad than my Jeep Grand Cherokee or something like a Land Rover LR4. The Jeep doesn't really compete with the GX because its only two row, but the LR4 certainly does. Its also a luxurious comfortable riding vehicle with excellent off-road abilities.
Here's a question for you then...why is the GX the slowest selling vehicle in its class? I think the answer to that question is because its BOF.
Here's a question for you then...why is the GX the slowest selling vehicle in its class? I think the answer to that question is because its BOF.
I think the LR4 sells well because it is a Land Rover and has the prestige that comes with it. It is just as top heavy, drives heavy, gets worse gas mileage and to me is a little behind in the features compared to the GX. It is also proven to be more unreliable than the GX. I love the LR4, not for the prestige but the rugged look and space, but the poor gas mileage, reliability and high maintenance costs outweigh the benefits to me. Some people are willing to accept that but my wife and I are not. After my wife talked to her co-worker who has both a 2011 LR4 and a 2012 X5, she said run, run as fast as you can from the LR4 because of the problems they have had and she couldn't recommend it. She likes her X5 but my wife said even that is in the shop a lot for small electrical issues but at least she recommends that (her boss has a 2012 X5M that seems to always be in the shop too). I guess when you are used to having to take your car in to the dealer a lot it is not a big deal but when you are used to just taking your car in for routine maintenance only and are used to it being that way it is hard to accept anything different and your expectations can be a bit skewed.
#36
LOL, the Grand Cherokee is not a car. Its a very capable unibody SUV, as it always has been. Like I said before, I'd put the Grand Cherokee up against any vehicle off-road any day. You can believe what you want, but reality is reality.
The Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are in different classes just as the RX and GX are.
You keep trying to make this about the Jeep, and it's not. It's about unibody vs BOF SUVs. You're not a Jeep fan...I'm not a GX fan but at least I can cede that it's a capable vehicle.
The Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are in different classes just as the RX and GX are.
You keep trying to make this about the Jeep, and it's not. It's about unibody vs BOF SUVs. You're not a Jeep fan...I'm not a GX fan but at least I can cede that it's a capable vehicle.
On the Jeep forum (http://www.jeepz.com/forum/cherokee-...-cherokee.html) people don't think Grand Cherokee is built better:
I wouldn't say it's any 'better' built, but it does have a little more interior room. The wheelbase and track is the same, and the drivetrains are often very similar.
If Grand Cherokee was a real SUV people who need real SUVs would be driving it. But they don't. That's because Grand Cherokee is a CUV, not an SUV. You're probably driving a Dodge Caravan shaped like an SUV LOL
Last edited by Quadro; 10-05-13 at 09:03 AM.
#37
Lexus Fanatic
The Grand Cherokee was all new for 2011, the 2014 is a refresh. The Cherokee is all new for 2014, it's a completely different chassis. That's like me saying the GS and the Avalon are the same chassis, they aren't.
The Cherokee is FWD based with a transverse mounted engine, the Grand Cherokee is RWD based. Completely different vehicles. The link you posted is a Cherokee forum...of course they're going to think their Cherokees are just as good as a Grand Cherokee. Go in the IS forums and see what people say about the IS being superior to the GS. Go to a 4 Runner forum and see them talk about what a waste the GX is.
The Grand Cherokee is definitely better built, as you would expect for a more expensive vehicle. As for sales, plenty of JGC owners in the Midwest. They have Jeepin events at Moab. You're just flat wrong. Plenty of people buy them and off-road them and tow. Go to the Jeep forums. It is not a Crossover. If you think it has anything to do with a Dodge caravan...you just absolutely know nothing about the vehicle.
In the end...the proof is in the sales. The JGC is a huge success. It's a great vehicle, reliability is questionable but it's comfortable, capable, well built, good looking, and a great value.
As for the LR4, I didn't care for it either when I drove it.
The Cherokee is FWD based with a transverse mounted engine, the Grand Cherokee is RWD based. Completely different vehicles. The link you posted is a Cherokee forum...of course they're going to think their Cherokees are just as good as a Grand Cherokee. Go in the IS forums and see what people say about the IS being superior to the GS. Go to a 4 Runner forum and see them talk about what a waste the GX is.
The Grand Cherokee is definitely better built, as you would expect for a more expensive vehicle. As for sales, plenty of JGC owners in the Midwest. They have Jeepin events at Moab. You're just flat wrong. Plenty of people buy them and off-road them and tow. Go to the Jeep forums. It is not a Crossover. If you think it has anything to do with a Dodge caravan...you just absolutely know nothing about the vehicle.
In the end...the proof is in the sales. The JGC is a huge success. It's a great vehicle, reliability is questionable but it's comfortable, capable, well built, good looking, and a great value.
As for the LR4, I didn't care for it either when I drove it.
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-05-13 at 11:28 AM.
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Here's a link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Cherokee_(KL)
The Cherokee is a crossover built on the Dodge Dart platform.
The Grand Cherokee is it's own platform, designed from the start to be an SUV, co-developed with Mercedes (the ML). The GC has never been a crossover.
Here's a link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Grand_Cherokee
The only vehicles it's related to are the Durango, the new Maserati SUV, and the Mercedes ML, R, GL. Also note the fact that the GC is the most awarded SUV ever. 30 of those awards are for off-road capability.
The Cherokee is a crossover built on the Dodge Dart platform.
The Grand Cherokee is it's own platform, designed from the start to be an SUV, co-developed with Mercedes (the ML). The GC has never been a crossover.
Here's a link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Grand_Cherokee
The only vehicles it's related to are the Durango, the new Maserati SUV, and the Mercedes ML, R, GL. Also note the fact that the GC is the most awarded SUV ever. 30 of those awards are for off-road capability.
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-05-13 at 11:53 AM.
#39
Go read what people who actually been to UAE write (http://lexusenthusiast.com/2013/03/1...ord-in-2012/):
Then I asked him: Why are there only landcruisers and LXs in the desert? He said that there is no choice as no other car can take the heat and the tortures that the landcruiser can
#40
Lexus Fanatic
This is pointless. I've provided you with the facts, you can choose to believe whatever you want.
I've said repeatedly that I was not comparing the Jeep to anything else, and that of course there were other very capable SUVs, but that the Jeep is an example of a very capable SUV that is in fact unibody in design. If you want to believe its a crossover or a Dodge Caravan fine, that doesn't change the fact that none of that is true. The fact that the Jeep is capable doesn't take anything away from the Land Cruiser or any other vehicle.
I've said repeatedly that I was not comparing the Jeep to anything else, and that of course there were other very capable SUVs, but that the Jeep is an example of a very capable SUV that is in fact unibody in design. If you want to believe its a crossover or a Dodge Caravan fine, that doesn't change the fact that none of that is true. The fact that the Jeep is capable doesn't take anything away from the Land Cruiser or any other vehicle.
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-05-13 at 01:59 PM.
#41
Lexus Fanatic
The Grand Cherokee was all new for 2011, the 2014 is a refresh. The Cherokee is all new for 2014, it's a completely different chassis. That's like me saying the GS and the Avalon are the same chassis, they aren't.
The Cherokee is FWD based with a transverse mounted engine, the Grand Cherokee is RWD based. Completely different vehicles. The link you posted is a Cherokee forum...of course they're going to think their Cherokees are just as good as a Grand Cherokee. Go in the IS forums and see what people say about the IS being superior to the GS. Go to a 4 Runner forum and see them talk about what a waste the GX is.
The Grand Cherokee is definitely better built, as you would expect for a more expensive vehicle. As for sales, plenty of JGC owners in the Midwest. They have Jeepin events at Moab. You're just flat wrong. Plenty of people buy them and off-road them and tow. Go to the Jeep forums. It is not a Crossover. If you think it has anything to do with a Dodge caravan...you just absolutely know nothing about the vehicle.
In the end...the proof is in the sales. The JGC is a huge success. It's a great vehicle, reliability is questionable but it's comfortable, capable, well built, good looking, and a great value.
As for the LR4, I didn't care for it either when I drove it.
The Cherokee is FWD based with a transverse mounted engine, the Grand Cherokee is RWD based. Completely different vehicles. The link you posted is a Cherokee forum...of course they're going to think their Cherokees are just as good as a Grand Cherokee. Go in the IS forums and see what people say about the IS being superior to the GS. Go to a 4 Runner forum and see them talk about what a waste the GX is.
The Grand Cherokee is definitely better built, as you would expect for a more expensive vehicle. As for sales, plenty of JGC owners in the Midwest. They have Jeepin events at Moab. You're just flat wrong. Plenty of people buy them and off-road them and tow. Go to the Jeep forums. It is not a Crossover. If you think it has anything to do with a Dodge caravan...you just absolutely know nothing about the vehicle.
In the end...the proof is in the sales. The JGC is a huge success. It's a great vehicle, reliability is questionable but it's comfortable, capable, well built, good looking, and a great value.
As for the LR4, I didn't care for it either when I drove it.
Not to sure about Cherokee but my thoughts are is that they are highly electronic like the GX.
Can you imagine the GX electronic transfer case malfunctioning while in 4L with a malfunctioning adaptive variable suspension stuck in the low position. No thanks.
#42
The point is you should pay less attention to what Jeep writes on their site (let alone take it as fact) and see what people actually use it for and what's it up to in the real world. I don't see any unibody Jeeps (or any other unibody SUV) used as workhorses the same way Land Cruisers are. Unibody Jeep is a product of US market demand and US market does not need real SUVs.
#43
Lexus Fanatic
The point is you should pay less attention to what Jeep writes on their site (let alone take it as fact) and see what people actually use it for and what's it up to in the real world. I don't see any unibody Jeeps (or any other unibody SUV) used as workhorses the same way Land Cruisers are. Unibody Jeep is a product of US market demand and US market does not need real SUVs.
Any vehicle can stand the test of time, all that matters if it was designed and engineered for it.
#44
Lexus Fanatic
I have never even spent more than 30 minutes on Jeeps site lol. I have one, I've driven it off-road. I belong to a forum with tens of thousands of members who wheel them and tow with them and use them for what they are designed for.
I didn't even read the thing about it being the most awarded SUV in history until I googled that Wikipedia link for you.
They have a myriad of different 4x4 systems. Mine is just Quadra Trac 1 which is basically full time AWD with stability and traction. They have two other systems, QTII which has a low range and a locking transfer case with a Range Rover risqué terrain management system, and then QuadraDrive which includes an adjustable suspension system.
The whole thing is very electronic though I agree.
I didn't even read the thing about it being the most awarded SUV in history until I googled that Wikipedia link for you.
Originally Posted by LexusCTJill
Not to sure about Cherokee but my thoughts are is that they are highly electronic like the GX.
The whole thing is very electronic though I agree.
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-05-13 at 02:36 PM.
#45
Dude, you seriously have to get over the Land Cruiser being worked in the toughest terrain crap, I know plently of contractors who have spent time in the rough regions of Afghanistan, they were using small crew cab 4WD Ford trucks to get around.
Any vehicle can stand the test of time, all that matters if it was designed and engineered for it.
Any vehicle can stand the test of time, all that matters if it was designed and engineered for it.