Consumer Reports GX 460 safety warning (4/13 sales halted; 4/19 recall)
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Consumer Reports GX 460 safety warning (4/13 sales halted; 4/19 recall)
UPDATE: VSC Recall Announced: http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/l...ll-157109.aspx
To all the 5,000 existing GX 460 owners, including those in this forum, some news that will likely have future developments forthcoming:
Right now Consumer Reports has issued a recommendation that all GX 460 drivers "approach exit ramps with caution" due to its test findings that the electronic stability control (ESC) does not kick in quickly in a certain situation. There is a video and full description here:
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...fety-risk.html
More coverage in Car Chat:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...fety-risk.html
CR has had some controversy with its SUV tests in the past but this seems to be rather specific to a certain type of maneuver and situation, which likely will engender a manufacturer response in the near future. I'd still feel pretty calm about normal driving, and CR themselves note that this issue has not caused any actual accidents to their knowledge. Still, knowledge is power, and stay safe out there.
To all the 5,000 existing GX 460 owners, including those in this forum, some news that will likely have future developments forthcoming:
Right now Consumer Reports has issued a recommendation that all GX 460 drivers "approach exit ramps with caution" due to its test findings that the electronic stability control (ESC) does not kick in quickly in a certain situation. There is a video and full description here:
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...fety-risk.html
More coverage in Car Chat:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...fety-risk.html
April 13, 2010
Don't Buy: Safety Risk--2010 Lexus GX 460
Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports has judged the 2010 Lexus GX 460 SUV a Don’t Buy: Safety Risk because of a problem we experienced during our standard emergency-handling tests. When pushed to its limits on our track’s handling course, the rear of the GX we bought slid out until the vehicle was almost sideways before the electronic stability control system was able to regain control.
We believe that in real-world driving, that situation could lead to a rollover accident, which could cause serious injury or death. We are not aware, however, of any such reports.
All four of our auto engineers who conduct the test experienced the problem in an exercise used to evaluate what’s called lift-off oversteer. In the test, as the vehicle is driven through a turn, the driver quickly lifts his foot off the accelerator pedal to see how the vehicle reacts.
We perform this evaluation on every vehicle we test, which includes the 95 SUVs in our current auto Ratings. No other SUV in recent years slid out as far as the GX 460, including the Toyota 4Runner, which shares the same platform as the GX.
To confirm our results, we paid for the use of another GX 460 from Lexus and experienced the same problem.
In real-world driving, lift-off oversteer could occur when a driver enters a highway’s exit ramp or drives through a sweeping turn and encounters an unexpected obstacle or suddenly finds that the turn is too tight for the vehicle’s speed. A natural impulse is to quickly lift off the accelerator pedal. If that were to happen in the GX, the rear could slide around far enough that a wheel could strike a curb or slide off the pavement.
Either of those scenarios can cause a vehicle to roll over. And because the GX is a tall SUV with a high center of gravity, our concern for rollover safety is heightened.
Like almost all current SUVs, the GX has standard ESC. That system is designed to prevent a vehicle from sliding out in a turn and has generally worked very effectively in the vehicles we’ve tested. It does that by applying individual brakes and cutting engine power to help keep the vehicle on its intended path. But the GX’s system doesn’t intervene quickly enough to stop the slide, and the rear end swings around too far.
As a result, we are urging consumers not to buy the GX 460 until the problem has been fixed. The GX 460 has been on sale for about three months and about 5,000 vehicles have been sold. We have notified Toyota, Lexus’ parent company, of the problem. We urge the company to develop a remedy as quickly as possible and implement it in new vehicles produced at the assembly plant and those already purchased.
In an e-mail response, Toyota spokesman Joe Tetherow said, “We're concerned with the results of Consumer Reports' testing of the Lexus GX 460 and the suggested buyer recommendation. Our engineers conducted similar tests during the development of the new GX and had no issues. However, we will try to duplicate the Consumer Reports test, quickly evaluate the results and determine what appropriate steps need to be taken. It's important to remember that the 2010 GX 460 meets or exceeds all Federal Government test requirements. Customer safety and satisfaction are our highest priorities. We are taking this very seriously and appreciate Consumer Reports bringing it to our attention.”
We have also informed the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
The designation is rare for Consumer Reports; the last time we judged a vehicle’s performance not acceptable was with the 2001 Mitsubishi Montero Limited in the August 2001 issue of Consumer Reports magazine.
Don't Buy: Safety Risk--2010 Lexus GX 460
Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports has judged the 2010 Lexus GX 460 SUV a Don’t Buy: Safety Risk because of a problem we experienced during our standard emergency-handling tests. When pushed to its limits on our track’s handling course, the rear of the GX we bought slid out until the vehicle was almost sideways before the electronic stability control system was able to regain control.
We believe that in real-world driving, that situation could lead to a rollover accident, which could cause serious injury or death. We are not aware, however, of any such reports.
All four of our auto engineers who conduct the test experienced the problem in an exercise used to evaluate what’s called lift-off oversteer. In the test, as the vehicle is driven through a turn, the driver quickly lifts his foot off the accelerator pedal to see how the vehicle reacts.
We perform this evaluation on every vehicle we test, which includes the 95 SUVs in our current auto Ratings. No other SUV in recent years slid out as far as the GX 460, including the Toyota 4Runner, which shares the same platform as the GX.
To confirm our results, we paid for the use of another GX 460 from Lexus and experienced the same problem.
In real-world driving, lift-off oversteer could occur when a driver enters a highway’s exit ramp or drives through a sweeping turn and encounters an unexpected obstacle or suddenly finds that the turn is too tight for the vehicle’s speed. A natural impulse is to quickly lift off the accelerator pedal. If that were to happen in the GX, the rear could slide around far enough that a wheel could strike a curb or slide off the pavement.
Either of those scenarios can cause a vehicle to roll over. And because the GX is a tall SUV with a high center of gravity, our concern for rollover safety is heightened.
Like almost all current SUVs, the GX has standard ESC. That system is designed to prevent a vehicle from sliding out in a turn and has generally worked very effectively in the vehicles we’ve tested. It does that by applying individual brakes and cutting engine power to help keep the vehicle on its intended path. But the GX’s system doesn’t intervene quickly enough to stop the slide, and the rear end swings around too far.
As a result, we are urging consumers not to buy the GX 460 until the problem has been fixed. The GX 460 has been on sale for about three months and about 5,000 vehicles have been sold. We have notified Toyota, Lexus’ parent company, of the problem. We urge the company to develop a remedy as quickly as possible and implement it in new vehicles produced at the assembly plant and those already purchased.
In an e-mail response, Toyota spokesman Joe Tetherow said, “We're concerned with the results of Consumer Reports' testing of the Lexus GX 460 and the suggested buyer recommendation. Our engineers conducted similar tests during the development of the new GX and had no issues. However, we will try to duplicate the Consumer Reports test, quickly evaluate the results and determine what appropriate steps need to be taken. It's important to remember that the 2010 GX 460 meets or exceeds all Federal Government test requirements. Customer safety and satisfaction are our highest priorities. We are taking this very seriously and appreciate Consumer Reports bringing it to our attention.”
We have also informed the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
The designation is rare for Consumer Reports; the last time we judged a vehicle’s performance not acceptable was with the 2001 Mitsubishi Montero Limited in the August 2001 issue of Consumer Reports magazine.
Last edited by encore888; 04-19-10 at 12:23 PM. Reason: update link
#2
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The initial response is the same as CR quoted:
Right now though, I expect that corporate probably is not going to have much new information, but it's quite possible a TSIB will be issued or even a voluntary recall.
Lexus Statement Regarding Consumer Reports 2010 GX 460 Handling Test Results
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/l...spx?ncid=12040
We’re concerned with the results of Consumer Reports testing on the Lexus GX 460 and their suggested buyer recommendation. Our engineers conduct similar tests and we feel these procedures provide a good indication of how our vehicles will perform in the real-world; however, we will try to duplicate the Consumer Reports’ test to determine if appropriate steps need to be taken. Please keep in mind that the 2010 GX 460 meets or exceeds all federal government testing requirements. Customer safety and satisfaction remain our highest priorities. We take the Consumer Reports’ test results seriously and appreciate Consumer Reports bringing it to our attention.
Customers who have any questions or concerns should contact the Lexus Customer Satisfaction at 1-800 25 LEXUS or 1-800-255-3987
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/l...spx?ncid=12040
We’re concerned with the results of Consumer Reports testing on the Lexus GX 460 and their suggested buyer recommendation. Our engineers conduct similar tests and we feel these procedures provide a good indication of how our vehicles will perform in the real-world; however, we will try to duplicate the Consumer Reports’ test to determine if appropriate steps need to be taken. Please keep in mind that the 2010 GX 460 meets or exceeds all federal government testing requirements. Customer safety and satisfaction remain our highest priorities. We take the Consumer Reports’ test results seriously and appreciate Consumer Reports bringing it to our attention.
Customers who have any questions or concerns should contact the Lexus Customer Satisfaction at 1-800 25 LEXUS or 1-800-255-3987
#5
All it takes is new software for the ESC. Hopefully they will handle this issue better than they did the other recent ones. They can't afford to botch the response this time.
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#8
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My take on it...
CR would **** their pants seeing how the GX, Prado, Montero, Pajero, Xtrail, Petrol, etc are driven overseas.
I know I did. Never was a fan of the GX/Prado until I visited Jamrock and I was in utter amazement how people drove these SUVs with 7 people in them on awful roads and in the mountains.
Hell they drift buses and trucks filled with people. It was utterly amazing to watch quite frankly.
I have yet to drive the 460 but if I did I wouldn't really push it at all here. The ones I've seen so far have been at the mall.
To me its just beat up Toyota or save Toyota (like MT placing the Camry first last month).
I know I did. Never was a fan of the GX/Prado until I visited Jamrock and I was in utter amazement how people drove these SUVs with 7 people in them on awful roads and in the mountains.
Hell they drift buses and trucks filled with people. It was utterly amazing to watch quite frankly.
I have yet to drive the 460 but if I did I wouldn't really push it at all here. The ones I've seen so far have been at the mall.
To me its just beat up Toyota or save Toyota (like MT placing the Camry first last month).
#11
It sounds like the test was done at a pretty high speed; I don't know how fast people drive on the exit ramp, but the GX is big and heavy enough that I would definitely slow down before getting off the highway. The fix shouldn't be too difficult though.
#12
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Rofl, I saw the video of the GX460, and I thought to myself "SWEEEEEEET!" It's the ultimate drift SUV!
I guess it is concerning that the stability control did not intervene, but it was still kind of cool if you are trying to have fun.
I guess it is concerning that the stability control did not intervene, but it was still kind of cool if you are trying to have fun.
#13
Lexus Fanatic
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It is all over the media now. This will certainly hamper sales as many people do rely on the opinion of CR in their vehicle decision.
Additionally, many people do not know nor care to learn how to handle a vehicle that has lost it's rear end. Remember, very few owners take their SUV off road (I did just yesterday ).
Mike is correct that the GX470/Prada are beaten up pretty good overseas and handle it well. This is a situation where traction control is turned off anyhow. But...again, how many people take it offroad?
The GX460 has a big footprint to fill and this is not a good start.
Additionally, many people do not know nor care to learn how to handle a vehicle that has lost it's rear end. Remember, very few owners take their SUV off road (I did just yesterday ).
Mike is correct that the GX470/Prada are beaten up pretty good overseas and handle it well. This is a situation where traction control is turned off anyhow. But...again, how many people take it offroad?
The GX460 has a big footprint to fill and this is not a good start.
#15
Lexus Test Driver
This fact was just "confirmed" a moment ago on CNN. A CR engineer who was being interviewed stated that the fix should be relatively easy, inasmuch as this program is a simple algorithm and that it should merely be a matter of reprograming the system.