Suspension Clunk Over Potholes
#16
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes that's normal for the shock to spin. You need to use a crescent wrench, locking pliers etc. and grab the top of the mounting shaft, its above the bolt that's squared off.
It's not easy to do with the GX on the ground though. Lift the rear with a jack under the rear diff and place jack stands under the rear section of the frame rails that way the rear end can droop. Once it droops you can easily get to it.
I doubt that's the cause of your squeak. It's squeaking because you're turning the shock shaft in a dry rubber bushing. When you rock it back and forth you're not turning the shock.
It's not easy to do with the GX on the ground though. Lift the rear with a jack under the rear diff and place jack stands under the rear section of the frame rails that way the rear end can droop. Once it droops you can easily get to it.
I doubt that's the cause of your squeak. It's squeaking because you're turning the shock shaft in a dry rubber bushing. When you rock it back and forth you're not turning the shock.
Since this noise happens with the Front and Rear wheels, I am thinking about replacing the Rear Shocks and Sway Bar Bushings if the KDSS checks out ok from the dealer.
It is about $200 for those parts, which is probley cheaper then getting it diagnosed, and could likely be the issue. Plus with 80k miles, the shocks are probley tired anyways. The noise is actually worse in the rear, so if this fixes the problem I will have a good idea on the cause.
Replacing the rear shocks seems pretty easy and straight forward, and I am pretty sure I can do it myself, but wanted to make sure I am doing it properly so I don't screw anything up.
1. Turn off Auto Level, and jack up the rear, and support the rear frame with Jackstands.
2. Support the Rear Axle with a jack on the side that I am replacing the shock on.
3. Remove the bottom bolt that connects the shock to the Rear Axle
4. Remove the top nut that connects the top of the shock to the frame
5. Remove Old Shock
6. Insert the top part of the new shock to the frame and torque the nut factory torque specs
7. Temp insert the bolt on on the bottom of the shock to the frame
8. Do Steps 2-7 for the other side
9. Lower car and settle the suspension
10. While still on Ground, tighten bottom shock bolt to factory torque specs
#17
forget the part about removing the top nut....get a sawzall...cut the shaft off. that way it will take you 15 mins to replace the shock vs 3 days trying to get that top nut off. make sure you get some new washers for the top bushings becasue you won't be getting that nut off to retrieve the old ones. the new shock does not come with the washers.
#18
Lexus Champion
RCsGX, thanks for your help on this and answering my questions!
Since this noise happens with the Front and Rear wheels, I am thinking about replacing the Rear Shocks and Sway Bar Bushings if the KDSS checks out ok from the dealer.
It is about $200 for those parts, which is probley cheaper then getting it diagnosed, and could likely be the issue. Plus with 80k miles, the shocks are probley tired anyways. The noise is actually worse in the rear, so if this fixes the problem I will have a good idea on the cause.
Replacing the rear shocks seems pretty easy and straight forward, and I am pretty sure I can do it myself, but wanted to make sure I am doing it properly so I don't screw anything up.
1. Turn off Auto Level, and jack up the rear, and support the rear frame with Jackstands.
2. Support the Rear Axle with a jack on the side that I am replacing the shock on.
3. Remove the bottom bolt that connects the shock to the Rear Axle
4. Remove the top nut that connects the top of the shock to the frame
5. Remove Old Shock
6. Insert the top part of the new shock to the frame and torque the nut factory torque specs
7. Temp insert the bolt on on the bottom of the shock to the frame
8. Do Steps 2-7 for the other side
9. Lower car and settle the suspension
10. While still on Ground, tighten bottom shock bolt to factory torque specs
Since this noise happens with the Front and Rear wheels, I am thinking about replacing the Rear Shocks and Sway Bar Bushings if the KDSS checks out ok from the dealer.
It is about $200 for those parts, which is probley cheaper then getting it diagnosed, and could likely be the issue. Plus with 80k miles, the shocks are probley tired anyways. The noise is actually worse in the rear, so if this fixes the problem I will have a good idea on the cause.
Replacing the rear shocks seems pretty easy and straight forward, and I am pretty sure I can do it myself, but wanted to make sure I am doing it properly so I don't screw anything up.
1. Turn off Auto Level, and jack up the rear, and support the rear frame with Jackstands.
2. Support the Rear Axle with a jack on the side that I am replacing the shock on.
3. Remove the bottom bolt that connects the shock to the Rear Axle
4. Remove the top nut that connects the top of the shock to the frame
5. Remove Old Shock
6. Insert the top part of the new shock to the frame and torque the nut factory torque specs
7. Temp insert the bolt on on the bottom of the shock to the frame
8. Do Steps 2-7 for the other side
9. Lower car and settle the suspension
10. While still on Ground, tighten bottom shock bolt to factory torque specs
*Don't forget to unplug the shock before removing and plugging the new one back in if going w/ OEM.
Yep your steps look good. I chose to put the bottom bolt in first because I found it easier to compress the shock and locate the top shaft hole vs. the bottom bolt hole. Either way is fine though. Also once I put the frame on jack stands I put the jack under the rear diff and did both sides by raising / lowering the rear axle. You can do it your way too but doing it under the rear diff is one less step moving it from the right side to the left..again, either way is fine though.
And as long as your GX isn't / won't be running while you're jacking it up you don't have to turn the height control off.
forget the part about removing the top nut....get a sawzall...cut the shaft off. that way it will take you 15 mins to replace the shock vs 3 days trying to get that top nut off. make sure you get some new washers for the top bushings becasue you won't be getting that nut off to retrieve the old ones. the new shock does not come with the washers.
I'm glad because if the Bilsteins ever need replacing I can throw the stocks back on until the new ones arrive.
#19
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
*Don't forget to unplug the shock before removing and plugging the new one back in if going w/ OEM.
Yep your steps look good. I chose to put the bottom bolt in first because I found it easier to compress the shock and locate the top shaft hole vs. the bottom bolt hole. Either way is fine though. Also once I put the frame on jack stands I put the jack under the rear diff and did both sides by raising / lowering the rear axle. You can do it your way too but doing it under the rear diff is one less step moving it from the right side to the left..again, either way is fine though.
And as long as your GX isn't / won't be running while you're jacking it up you don't have to turn the height control off.
I'm lucky my GX was a Texas truck. I was able to remove the top bolts and only had to use my hand to stop the shocks from turning vs a pipe wrench.
I'm glad because if the Bilsteins ever need replacing I can throw the stocks back on until the new ones arrive.
Yep your steps look good. I chose to put the bottom bolt in first because I found it easier to compress the shock and locate the top shaft hole vs. the bottom bolt hole. Either way is fine though. Also once I put the frame on jack stands I put the jack under the rear diff and did both sides by raising / lowering the rear axle. You can do it your way too but doing it under the rear diff is one less step moving it from the right side to the left..again, either way is fine though.
And as long as your GX isn't / won't be running while you're jacking it up you don't have to turn the height control off.
I'm lucky my GX was a Texas truck. I was able to remove the top bolts and only had to use my hand to stop the shocks from turning vs a pipe wrench.
I'm glad because if the Bilsteins ever need replacing I can throw the stocks back on until the new ones arrive.
I am thinking of the Bilstien 5100s, but this is my wifes car so I don't want a lift. Do you think the 5100s would be good, or should I do the 4600s?
Thanks!
#20
Pit Crew
So you had the rear axle supported at all times while removing and installing the shock right? If you lower the axle too far do you have to worry about the airbags popping/falling out? Also, did you compress the shock by hand to get the top shaft in, or did you use some other method?
I am thinking of the Bilstien 5100s, but this is my wifes car so I don't want a lift. Do you think the 5100s would be good, or should I do the 4600s?
Thanks!
I am thinking of the Bilstien 5100s, but this is my wifes car so I don't want a lift. Do you think the 5100s would be good, or should I do the 4600s?
Thanks!
Unfortunately, when the manufacturer was questioned they didn't answer back with enough clarity to support suspicions that they are the same but the possibility still remains.
#21
Lexus Champion
So you had the rear axle supported at all times while removing and installing the shock right?
-Yes.
If you lower the axle too far do you have to worry about the airbags popping/falling out?
-Once the rear of the frame is supported and you lower the jack under the rear diff you don't need to lower it that much, maybe 6-7".
Also, did you compress the shock by hand to get the top shaft in, or did you use some other method?
-Yes by hand. Stick the bolt through the shock / bottom shock mount then compress the shock and slowly release it and guide it through the top mount.
I am thinking of the Bilstien 5100s, but this is my wifes car so I don't want a lift. Do you think the 5100s would be good, or should I do the 4600s?
-Some say the 5100s are valved the same as the 4600s, some say the 5100s are valved differently. This vendor says they're valved the same, this vendor says they're valved differently. This guy spoke with Bilstein and they said they're the same, this guy spoke with Bilstein and they said they're valved differently. This guy said Bilstein gave him their valving numbers, this guy said Bilstein would never do that because it's top secret.
If they are valved the same and you don't think you'll ever lift it, get the HDs. Since I don't know if they are valved the same or not I don't want to tell you the wrong one to go with. I can say that I've used 5100s in the past and have been very happy with them. That was doing 2" of lift using preload so at the stock ride height without any spring preload they should ride even better.
Thanks!
-Yes.
If you lower the axle too far do you have to worry about the airbags popping/falling out?
-Once the rear of the frame is supported and you lower the jack under the rear diff you don't need to lower it that much, maybe 6-7".
Also, did you compress the shock by hand to get the top shaft in, or did you use some other method?
-Yes by hand. Stick the bolt through the shock / bottom shock mount then compress the shock and slowly release it and guide it through the top mount.
I am thinking of the Bilstien 5100s, but this is my wifes car so I don't want a lift. Do you think the 5100s would be good, or should I do the 4600s?
-Some say the 5100s are valved the same as the 4600s, some say the 5100s are valved differently. This vendor says they're valved the same, this vendor says they're valved differently. This guy spoke with Bilstein and they said they're the same, this guy spoke with Bilstein and they said they're valved differently. This guy said Bilstein gave him their valving numbers, this guy said Bilstein would never do that because it's top secret.
If they are valved the same and you don't think you'll ever lift it, get the HDs. Since I don't know if they are valved the same or not I don't want to tell you the wrong one to go with. I can say that I've used 5100s in the past and have been very happy with them. That was doing 2" of lift using preload so at the stock ride height without any spring preload they should ride even better.
Thanks!
#22
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I finally took the GX into the dealer for diagnosis. Basically the front driver shock is blown, and the other 3 are seeping, and are probley not far from going out. Just for them to replace the 1 blown shock was $546!!!! To replace all 4 would be $2,840!!! They also saw some seepage from the rear KDSS actuator, but don't think it is bad enough to replace yet, but when it does go, it is $1,596 to replace the rear actuator and bleed the system!!! That right there is reason enough not to seek out a GX with KDSS!
My plan is to replace all 4 shocks with Bilstien 5100s. For $380 I can get a full set from Shock Warehouse. Metal Tech said they will install all 4 for $300, however I may do the rears myself, and I am debating on whether I want to attempt the fronts.
My plan is to replace all 4 shocks with Bilstien 5100s. For $380 I can get a full set from Shock Warehouse. Metal Tech said they will install all 4 for $300, however I may do the rears myself, and I am debating on whether I want to attempt the fronts.
#24
Lexus Champion
Glad I passed up the 3 sport package GX's and held out for a white one.
#25
Someone brought that up in the past and you had KDSS owners come back and say there's no evidence of them failing etc etc etc. The problem is, a lot of GXs are just now getting up there in age / mileage so it's only natural to see some failing components within the KDSS system.
Glad I passed up the 3 sport package GX's and held out for a white one.
Glad I passed up the 3 sport package GX's and held out for a white one.
I've been wondering if there's a way to remove or "lock out" the hydraulics. I'd be just fine w/losing the slow-speed articulation of a disconnected swaybar the hydraulics afford.
#26
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone brought that up in the past and you had KDSS owners come back and say there's no evidence of them failing etc etc etc. The problem is, a lot of GXs are just now getting up there in age / mileage so it's only natural to see some failing components within the KDSS system.
Glad I passed up the 3 sport package GX's and held out for a white one.
Glad I passed up the 3 sport package GX's and held out for a white one.
I will have to say though that KDSS's thick sway bars make the GX handle almost like a sports car on the back roads. Even with my old blown suspension, I can really toss that thing into corners with no drama. That being said, it is just another expensive system to worry about failing, which with this GX, I am starting to get worried about expensive repairs.
My Front Diff is leaking, my Shocks are blown, and my KDSS may have an issue. Then there is the AIP, Integrated NAV, Center Diff Leak, Rear Air Bags, all that could start to go at this mileage, and cost thousands to fix. Seeing a $4,500 repair bill on a $20,000 vehicle I just bought is kinda scary.
It will probley be a few months though before I replace the shocks, but I will update this thread when I do with what I have found.
Thanks RCsGX for answering all of my many suspension questions! You have been a great help!
#27
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: IN
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was anyone able to verify if the swaybar bushings were the cause of the clunk? I have an '09 w/ KDSS and particularly notice the clunk from the rear when driving over rough/uneven roads. It looks like there are four bushings for the rear swaybar, two for the ends and two for the KDSS shock/link assembly. Can anyone confirm changing any/all bushings resolved the issue?
#28
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was anyone able to verify if the swaybar bushings were the cause of the clunk? I have an '09 w/ KDSS and particularly notice the clunk from the rear when driving over rough/uneven roads. It looks like there are four bushings for the rear swaybar, two for the ends and two for the KDSS shock/link assembly. Can anyone confirm changing any/all bushings resolved the issue?
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gx-...-rattle-4.html
Lolrax is getting his KDSS Swaybar bushings replaced to attempt to fix this. I will try doing the bushings if the new shocks don't fix the problem. The bushings are $20 a piece from lexus. This thread will give you a good idea on how to replace them.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...-vehicles.html
How many miles are on your 2009? Does adjusting the suspension to "Sport" reduce the occurrence of the clunk? Please keep us updated with what you find.
I have heard of quite a few people with new and newer GX's and 4Runners with KDSS and clunking noises. I wounder if some of the clunk is just the normal feeling of the KDSS doing its thing and allowing the swaybars to move.
If you notice, everyone in this thread that complains about the clunk the OP is describing has KDSS....
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...ird-noise.html
Last edited by amccaulx; 02-28-14 at 08:53 AM.
#29
Lexus Champion
Yall should ask some of the KDSS GXs over on ih8mud. They work on their trucks and use them offroad so I'm sure they'll be able to tell you if a clunking sound is normal or not....
http://forum.ih8mud.com/120-series-toyotas/
http://forum.ih8mud.com/120-series-toyotas/
#30
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: IN
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keep an eye on this thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gx-...-rattle-4.html
Lolrax is getting his KDSS Swaybar bushings replaced to attempt to fix this. I will try doing the bushings if the new shocks don't fix the problem. The bushings are $20 a piece from lexus. This thread will give you a good idea on how to replace them.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...-vehicles.html
How many miles are on your 2009? Does adjusting the suspension to "Sport" reduce the occurrence of the clunk? Please keep us updated with what you find.
I have heard of quite a few people with new and newer GX's and 4Runners with KDSS and clunking noises. I wounder if some of the clunk is just the normal feeling of the KDSS doing its thing and allowing the swaybars to move.
If you notice, everyone in this thread that complains about the clunk the OP is describing has KDSS....
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...ird-noise.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gx-...-rattle-4.html
Lolrax is getting his KDSS Swaybar bushings replaced to attempt to fix this. I will try doing the bushings if the new shocks don't fix the problem. The bushings are $20 a piece from lexus. This thread will give you a good idea on how to replace them.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...-vehicles.html
How many miles are on your 2009? Does adjusting the suspension to "Sport" reduce the occurrence of the clunk? Please keep us updated with what you find.
I have heard of quite a few people with new and newer GX's and 4Runners with KDSS and clunking noises. I wounder if some of the clunk is just the normal feeling of the KDSS doing its thing and allowing the swaybars to move.
If you notice, everyone in this thread that complains about the clunk the OP is describing has KDSS....
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...ird-noise.html