Lexus debuts 2016 GS F
#106
What surprises me the most here is that they are likely to have the RCF, GSF and then another ISF based on the 2014 cars.
I would think that the GSF and new ISF would have too much overlap.
I would think that the GSF and new ISF would have too much overlap.
#108
#109
Lead Lap
So Lexus didnt try to stomp out the competition with mega hp figures, thats not really their style. They are within reach of the Germans depending on how the car drives. At the end of the day though, power is nothing without handling, and Lexus has really stepped up in this dept last few years. With the already superb 4gs platform beefed up even further to complement the additional power I would bet this car is going to put a smile on the face of anyone who gets the pleasure of getting behind the wheel!!
To Lexus I say: "F yeah guys"!!
To Lexus I say: "F yeah guys"!!
Quite frankly, if you're trying to take the handling angle with this car then I'd be extremely worried about Cadillac's CTS-V. That's virtually guaranteed to bring handling AND power to the market.
#110
Pole Position
#111
Pole Position
The taillights didn't change the shape so I guess they guy from the previous thread was right how due to the frame construction they cannot change the tailights like they did headlights. Not that it matters cause I think they look gorgeous, not on par with IS which has the best tails on the market but very nice spin and homage to Altezza.
I love the refresh, GS just solidified itself as the best car in Lexus line up.
If we want to nitpick we can say why is there still old remote touch in there.
#112
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I agree with this. Perhaps Lexus is creating a slot for another model in the future to be placed above the GS and below the LS. This way, GS and RC could be 3 and 4 series competition and therefore more powerful than its competition. IS then can take the place as a 2 series competition, thereby making an ISF (with a forced induction v6?) viable - without any danger of overlap with the GS.
#114
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while the isf / rcf might line up close to m3/m4/c63, the mid size game is quite different.
the 2015 E63 AMG starts at $93,600. that probably doesn't include wheels or seats mb claims it does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. it's awd with a twin turbo 5.5L. i just don't think lexus is into that price of mid-size sedan at this point.
i mean go look at this page - it's just not realistic to think they're going to from a single GS350 (the 450h is pretty much dead in the u.s.) to something that competes with THIS beast.
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...ss-E/model-E63
lexus is probably done with any engines bigger than 5L and has just launched it's first low power small turbo engine. bmw and mb have been at it decades.
just because it's not competitive with an E63 doesn't mean it isn't cool.
you're probably right, but a huge 5L v8 from rc-f is quite a bit different than a compact high revving tt v6.
i agree! but i don't think they're interested in a 100K GS-F!
i don't think the is competes with the c class AT ALL. the c class is very conservative. the 3 series is kind of the 'sensible small sports sedan' in europe. the is has bold, polarizing styling. to me, different audiences. but comparisons keep the internet and car reviews buzzing.
i bet there's almost zero cross shopping of is and c class!
the 2015 E63 AMG starts at $93,600. that probably doesn't include wheels or seats mb claims it does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. it's awd with a twin turbo 5.5L. i just don't think lexus is into that price of mid-size sedan at this point.
i mean go look at this page - it's just not realistic to think they're going to from a single GS350 (the 450h is pretty much dead in the u.s.) to something that competes with THIS beast.
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...ss-E/model-E63
lexus is probably done with any engines bigger than 5L and has just launched it's first low power small turbo engine. bmw and mb have been at it decades.
just because it's not competitive with an E63 doesn't mean it isn't cool.
you're probably right, but a huge 5L v8 from rc-f is quite a bit different than a compact high revving tt v6.
i agree! but i don't think they're interested in a 100K GS-F!
i don't think the is competes with the c class AT ALL. the c class is very conservative. the 3 series is kind of the 'sensible small sports sedan' in europe. the is has bold, polarizing styling. to me, different audiences. but comparisons keep the internet and car reviews buzzing.
i bet there's almost zero cross shopping of is and c class!
unless you can show some proofs that people are not cross shopping between is and c, they are simply in the same class of cars from any angle by pretty much every press or authority. styling is only one aspect of it. if we go with your saying, the 3 and c were pretty much never ever competing at all ever (3 was always sporty and c was always on the classy side), which i don't think can possibly be true because i see plenty of people going between the two. people cross shop between is, a4, 3, and c. that's been the case for years, i have to say it's mind blowing to think otherwise.
i never said the gsf not competing with e63 makes it not cool, but i said rcf being cool and gsf sharing the same drive train doesn't automatically make it cool. in fact the gsf being one class higher, that likely discounts the cool factor
my analogy simply applies to any previous generations (even NA) so you don't have to pick tt v6. imagine e9x m3 and e60 m5 both ran the same 4l v8 400hp, yeah, not cool. and yeah, no one would be happy. same with c55 vs e55/63.
lexus leaving a big hole on the 4gs since the beginning is their own problem and they are dealing with it now
i think the problem is that no one really says the car that lexus just announced is bad. in fact i would believe everyone likes it, including me. but the fact that it has the gsf badge is a problem. one can argue all day long, but the truth is most people WILL put this car together with the m5 and e63. that part of the end result won't be very pretty.
yup, you can continue to argue forever how good the car can/will be, but you are already fighting a very tough battle since the beginning. if you can see how much pressure lexus already faced from the beginning even with a competitive product like isf and rcf, and how much lexus had to prove with the lfa that it's in the game, imagine the road ahead on the gsf.
trying to convince others that lexus is doing their own thing is not an easy path. just ask all the rcf bunch who swear the car is on its own and now fighting every battle to try get wins over the m4. even lexus on their own website tries to say the rcf is better car over the m4, and their own training / dealer event has the m4 running with rcf. all that with lexus initially saying out loud that m4 was not their target.
looking at it from another angle? let's see what cars lexus put together for their own comparison and private events, that would be very interesting. if it's m5 and e63, it probably won't be too pretty but proves my point. if it's 550i, i think the gsf will win so well and again it proves my point. but there are always chances that lexus just put gsf there with no other cars around
Last edited by rominl; 01-06-15 at 11:44 PM.
#115
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Haha this is a big FAIL from Lexus.
We've entered such a sad day when Lexus cannot even meet the standards of the game, which is quite an irony given how bad Lexus wants a 'sports' image, yet after all the hype and the end result being a half baked product.
The CTS-V alone will crush this.
Also what's up with Lexus and sharing the parts bin across the line? There was a day back in 2007 when the IS, ES & GS all had their own completely different interior and exterior design.
Yup cost cutting is alive & strong at Toyota.
We've entered such a sad day when Lexus cannot even meet the standards of the game, which is quite an irony given how bad Lexus wants a 'sports' image, yet after all the hype and the end result being a half baked product.
The CTS-V alone will crush this.
Also what's up with Lexus and sharing the parts bin across the line? There was a day back in 2007 when the IS, ES & GS all had their own completely different interior and exterior design.
Yup cost cutting is alive & strong at Toyota.
This is truly a sad day being a Lexus fan. Everyone did lower the expectation to low range in the group, Lexus still couldn't deliver.
#118
There is yet to be car from Toyota that utilizes that CF looming technology. GS-F should have been a perfect model to introduce some serious CF internal parts and reduce the weight to compensate for the engine but since this car will most likely have an MSRP of fully loaded RC-F its good for what it is.
The taillights didn't change the shape so I guess they guy from the previous thread was right how due to the frame construction they cannot change the tailights like they did headlights. Not that it matters cause I think they look gorgeous, not on par with IS which has the best tails on the market but very nice spin and homage to Altezza.
I love the refresh, GS just solidified itself as the best car in Lexus line up.
If we want to nitpick we can say why is there still old remote touch in there.
The taillights didn't change the shape so I guess they guy from the previous thread was right how due to the frame construction they cannot change the tailights like they did headlights. Not that it matters cause I think they look gorgeous, not on par with IS which has the best tails on the market but very nice spin and homage to Altezza.
I love the refresh, GS just solidified itself as the best car in Lexus line up.
If we want to nitpick we can say why is there still old remote touch in there.
Lexus pics suck, as always, I dont know why they always do such poor PR pics... whatever mag did the pics that showed up on lexus enthusiasts, car looks good... interior is probably best looking Lexus interior... as to the remote touch, looks a bit changed or is it only my eyes deceiving me?
#119
trying to convince others that lexus is doing their own thing is not an easy path. just ask all the rcf bunch who swear the car is on its own and now fighting every battle to try get wins over the m4. even lexus on their own website tries to say the rcf is better car over the m4, and their own training / dealer event has the m4 running with rcf. all that with lexus initially saying out loud that m4 was not their target.
Same will go for GS-F and M5. M5 will be a lot faster in straights, and GS-F will be a lot nimbler in curves, as well $30k easier on the valet.
#120
Lead Lap
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When you create a half baked product, its easier to just say we are building our own thing and following our path here, rather than tell the truth and say that we are way behind in the engine department. Lexus created this problem, no one forced them or told them not invest in new engines. The GS-F is fine car, the problem is under the hood, the same can be said about the rest of the line up. Just be because you received the awards for your engines 10 years ago, does not mean you should stop there. That's exactly what Lexus did.
Last edited by SNiiP3R; 01-07-15 at 03:39 AM.