Is Lexus killing (discontinuing) the GS Line ? (Merged threads)
12-29-18, 09:44 PM
#406
Personally, a GS in the likes of a Range Rover Sport would be amazing. The NX and RX are doing well enough for Lexus to keep that winning formula of their lower priced SUVs...and then comes the UX which seems like they just took a corolla hatchback and made it taller. I imagine that between the three UX, NX and RX, they will sell around 200,000 of them combined.
If the GS turned into an SUV, then its gotta be a reliable Range Rover Sport. I've driven a bunch of different SUVs in the last few years: Jaguar F Pace, Range Rover Sport, Caddy XT5, RX350, Audi Q7. Out of all of them, the Rover Sport is my personal favorite (sporty, spacious, good looking and comfortable) followed by the XT5 which is basically an American version of the RX with a few features missing from the RX like a touchscreen interface and Apple/Android Auto.
I agree that the GS stands a very good chance of getting chopped - especially if the ES gets AWD. If they announce an ES with AWD, then its unlikely the GS will survive. I hate to say crazy things, but because everyone is on an SUV high, the UX could actually already be the "replacement" for the GS. But MAN OH MAN, if they built a GS-SUV that really went after the Rover Sport, it would be fun!
If the GS turned into an SUV, then its gotta be a reliable Range Rover Sport. I've driven a bunch of different SUVs in the last few years: Jaguar F Pace, Range Rover Sport, Caddy XT5, RX350, Audi Q7. Out of all of them, the Rover Sport is my personal favorite (sporty, spacious, good looking and comfortable) followed by the XT5 which is basically an American version of the RX with a few features missing from the RX like a touchscreen interface and Apple/Android Auto.
I agree that the GS stands a very good chance of getting chopped - especially if the ES gets AWD. If they announce an ES with AWD, then its unlikely the GS will survive. I hate to say crazy things, but because everyone is on an SUV high, the UX could actually already be the "replacement" for the GS. But MAN OH MAN, if they built a GS-SUV that really went after the Rover Sport, it would be fun!
the UX is a joke. Have you seen the trunk capacity and how it accelerates. No one is buying it’s twin the CH-R. The next gen GLA, X1 XC40, and even the mliktoast XT4 will destroy it in sells. I predict they sell 16k-18 UX’s a year.
12-30-18, 08:35 AM
#407
Lexus should kill the GS—regrettably
Please understand I just bought a ‘15 F Sport w/15k miles because the car appeals to ME—after trading in an former car I loved greatly.
I highlighted ME—to establish that my personal Iove of a car has zero to do with anything—if not enough others feel the same. I do like this car nearly equal to my prior.
I do like the car, but I’d kill it off—or make minor trim changes to the existing car until sales drop to a point where it takes manufacturing capacity away from SUVs, trucks, and cars that sell.
For baseline reference—my wife drives a ‘17 RX RX350, and had a ‘12 RX450H prior. We also have a ‘13 F150 Raptor
Here are real factors as a business:
1. Brand marketing: Lexus has captured the ultra reliable yet luxury comfort market. Lexus isn’t close to the Germans in prestige, performance, and brand aspiration. The M, AMG, and RS of BMW, Mercedes, and Audi are widely regarded. F—gotta be kidding.
2. Demographic: Luxury car buyers don’t keep their cars long—which negates the reliability factor in cases. Second hand buyers enjoy the steep depreciation on used luxury cars (including Lexus). My wife and I can afford to buy a new luxury car, but wouldn’t in a million years. CPO and low mile cars are the way to go. That doesn’t help a manufacturer one iota. Many Mercedes/BMW owners trade in their cars at around the 60k-70k mark and buy another Mercedes/BMW(my parents do as do many).
3. Consumer Demand & Resale: We lived in DFW burbs and moved to Nashville burbs. Trucks, SUVs, and crossovers are what folks want. My wife’s ‘12 RX450h trade in for her used ‘17 RX350 was a steal, as CarMax already had plenty of buyers wanting it. Therefore we got a great deal—although her old RX had 140k on it. A GS with that many miles would get murdered in resale (because it’s a car). In our neighborhood, I believe 80%+ of wives and husbands drive a crossover, SUV, or pickup. My ‘13 Raptor still commands over $40k even though I paid $57k new. Folks love pickup trucks. Image more than need.
I already predict that the resale on a GS will be far, far lower than that on a comparable RX, Highlander, 4Runner, Tacoma, Tundra, LX, Land Cruiser, Corolla, Camry, etc.—because people want those vehicles. Why, oh why would you keep making a model that sells at small volume—when you can profit off of vehicles that sell in massive quantities?
4. Competitive Strategy: “Ignore your competitors at your peril.” All bread and butter automakers are killing off cars and adding SUVs, crossovers, and trucks. Even Porsche, MB, BMW, Audi, Bentley, Jaguar, etc. are adding more crossovers and “sport SUVs.”
The generous profits by being smart allow for revenues to develop alternative fueled vehicles—in case gas becomes unsustainable.
Ladies and gents, there are many reasons beyond these—would fill a book. I’m passionate about it as marketing/ business strategy is my job—not in automotives, but fundamentals apply in every competitive major market.
In closing: If Lexus kills off the GS, I’d likely go with an LS500 F Sport, or back to BMW, Mercedes—not an Audi fan. Lexus already knows they’ve lost that fight, but can win elsewhere.
I highlighted ME—to establish that my personal Iove of a car has zero to do with anything—if not enough others feel the same. I do like this car nearly equal to my prior.
I do like the car, but I’d kill it off—or make minor trim changes to the existing car until sales drop to a point where it takes manufacturing capacity away from SUVs, trucks, and cars that sell.
For baseline reference—my wife drives a ‘17 RX RX350, and had a ‘12 RX450H prior. We also have a ‘13 F150 Raptor
Here are real factors as a business:
1. Brand marketing: Lexus has captured the ultra reliable yet luxury comfort market. Lexus isn’t close to the Germans in prestige, performance, and brand aspiration. The M, AMG, and RS of BMW, Mercedes, and Audi are widely regarded. F—gotta be kidding.
2. Demographic: Luxury car buyers don’t keep their cars long—which negates the reliability factor in cases. Second hand buyers enjoy the steep depreciation on used luxury cars (including Lexus). My wife and I can afford to buy a new luxury car, but wouldn’t in a million years. CPO and low mile cars are the way to go. That doesn’t help a manufacturer one iota. Many Mercedes/BMW owners trade in their cars at around the 60k-70k mark and buy another Mercedes/BMW(my parents do as do many).
3. Consumer Demand & Resale: We lived in DFW burbs and moved to Nashville burbs. Trucks, SUVs, and crossovers are what folks want. My wife’s ‘12 RX450h trade in for her used ‘17 RX350 was a steal, as CarMax already had plenty of buyers wanting it. Therefore we got a great deal—although her old RX had 140k on it. A GS with that many miles would get murdered in resale (because it’s a car). In our neighborhood, I believe 80%+ of wives and husbands drive a crossover, SUV, or pickup. My ‘13 Raptor still commands over $40k even though I paid $57k new. Folks love pickup trucks. Image more than need.
I already predict that the resale on a GS will be far, far lower than that on a comparable RX, Highlander, 4Runner, Tacoma, Tundra, LX, Land Cruiser, Corolla, Camry, etc.—because people want those vehicles. Why, oh why would you keep making a model that sells at small volume—when you can profit off of vehicles that sell in massive quantities?
4. Competitive Strategy: “Ignore your competitors at your peril.” All bread and butter automakers are killing off cars and adding SUVs, crossovers, and trucks. Even Porsche, MB, BMW, Audi, Bentley, Jaguar, etc. are adding more crossovers and “sport SUVs.”
The generous profits by being smart allow for revenues to develop alternative fueled vehicles—in case gas becomes unsustainable.
Ladies and gents, there are many reasons beyond these—would fill a book. I’m passionate about it as marketing/ business strategy is my job—not in automotives, but fundamentals apply in every competitive major market.
In closing: If Lexus kills off the GS, I’d likely go with an LS500 F Sport, or back to BMW, Mercedes—not an Audi fan. Lexus already knows they’ve lost that fight, but can win elsewhere.
Last edited by KAH; 12-30-18 at 12:17 PM.
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12-30-18, 01:34 PM
#409
SUVs, Trucks, etc. may sell well here in the states, but not the case in every other place in the world, where you're hard pressed to see a truck or SUV. The GS happens to sell quite well in my neck of the woods, as do just about anything else.
BMW, MB, Audi owners DO trade their cars in far more rapidly than Lexus owners, because a German car out of warranty is a nightmare. I quite enjoy the fact that Lexus loses value in its first three years of ownership on par with it's German brethren. That's exactly how I'e been buying my Lexus' and couldn't afford them if they held their value like a Camry. My 2GS held its value quite nicely, as did my 1GX, but 4Runner held it's value even better. When I bought my GX used, it was the same price as a 1 year newer 4Runner Sport. It turned heads and got complements for the 8 years I owned it and looked 10x better than anything else in its age including the 4Runner.
I personally don't mind that my GS doesn't go 0 - 60 as fast as an M series or AMG or whatever. It goes way faster than most base model German cars and holds together 10x longer. If I wanted M performance, I would have gone with the GSF. I hope Lexus never goes the way of its German counterparts, if it means I have to fix them as frequently.
I don't see Lexus killing off the GS (different thread), when it costs them so little to make. The platform is very popular in other parts of the world, different grill, tail lights and interior are minimum investments to sell in a different market, so by no means a loss to Lexus/Toyota.
Also, your GS-F is like a 3 series with M Sport package. If you're not impressed, it's because it has as much performance value as the M-Sport package does. You get stiffer suspension, bigger brakes, trim decal and LOOK faster. Not exactly a GSF...or M3/M5!
BMW, MB, Audi owners DO trade their cars in far more rapidly than Lexus owners, because a German car out of warranty is a nightmare. I quite enjoy the fact that Lexus loses value in its first three years of ownership on par with it's German brethren. That's exactly how I'e been buying my Lexus' and couldn't afford them if they held their value like a Camry. My 2GS held its value quite nicely, as did my 1GX, but 4Runner held it's value even better. When I bought my GX used, it was the same price as a 1 year newer 4Runner Sport. It turned heads and got complements for the 8 years I owned it and looked 10x better than anything else in its age including the 4Runner.
I personally don't mind that my GS doesn't go 0 - 60 as fast as an M series or AMG or whatever. It goes way faster than most base model German cars and holds together 10x longer. If I wanted M performance, I would have gone with the GSF. I hope Lexus never goes the way of its German counterparts, if it means I have to fix them as frequently.
I don't see Lexus killing off the GS (different thread), when it costs them so little to make. The platform is very popular in other parts of the world, different grill, tail lights and interior are minimum investments to sell in a different market, so by no means a loss to Lexus/Toyota.
Also, your GS-F is like a 3 series with M Sport package. If you're not impressed, it's because it has as much performance value as the M-Sport package does. You get stiffer suspension, bigger brakes, trim decal and LOOK faster. Not exactly a GSF...or M3/M5!
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12-30-18, 02:40 PM
#411
Instructor
Your ideas are in alignment with trends.
what your missing is the decision was made two years ago in Japan
the main issue beyond the suv, truck trend is the similarities of the IS, GS, Ls in a rwd platform with diminishing sales for four door sedans
so Lexus :
Left the GS to die but phasing it out
Upgrade to FWD ES to be best in class and a baby LS for 75% of their customer base that will be happy with it
In 2020 the new IS comes out which will be for buyers looking for a C, 3 series alternative.
the LS stays and gets a hydrogen or full electric powertrain which i believe was 8 years in the making, the 3.5 twin turbo is a stop gap till they perfect the technology
while at same time
Lexus truck sales have doubled cars this year
have a great product in NX, RX, GX and LX
and the UX will be a homerun
what your missing is the decision was made two years ago in Japan
the main issue beyond the suv, truck trend is the similarities of the IS, GS, Ls in a rwd platform with diminishing sales for four door sedans
so Lexus :
Left the GS to die but phasing it out
Upgrade to FWD ES to be best in class and a baby LS for 75% of their customer base that will be happy with it
In 2020 the new IS comes out which will be for buyers looking for a C, 3 series alternative.
the LS stays and gets a hydrogen or full electric powertrain which i believe was 8 years in the making, the 3.5 twin turbo is a stop gap till they perfect the technology
while at same time
Lexus truck sales have doubled cars this year
have a great product in NX, RX, GX and LX
and the UX will be a homerun
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KAH (12-30-18)
12-30-18, 02:48 PM
#412
I think it is nice that you bought a Lexus GS, but to say that Lexus should kill off the GS as your title is a bit harsh! You know this is a GS community dedicated to this brand, right?! Anyways, you should be a little more subtle and write your review of the car, instead of bashing it.
We are not all rich, and from your post, you seem to brag about how you and your parents always trade up for a new or used luxury brand! Most of us, especially me can not afford to keep purchasing a brand new or used luxury car every 4-5 years! Don't get me wrong, I ain't poor, I do have a stable income from working the healthcare field.
I bought my Lexus GS for the style, color, reliability, and performance, and I am coming from a Honda civic, which is over 15 years old and running great!
FYI, Lexus is discontinuing the GS after 2019 (from what I read here!).
If you are not pleased with your purchase, go and trade it off for another Luxury car or truck, since you live in a state where trucks are highly priced!
We are not all rich, and from your post, you seem to brag about how you and your parents always trade up for a new or used luxury brand! Most of us, especially me can not afford to keep purchasing a brand new or used luxury car every 4-5 years! Don't get me wrong, I ain't poor, I do have a stable income from working the healthcare field.
I bought my Lexus GS for the style, color, reliability, and performance, and I am coming from a Honda civic, which is over 15 years old and running great!
FYI, Lexus is discontinuing the GS after 2019 (from what I read here!).
If you are not pleased with your purchase, go and trade it off for another Luxury car or truck, since you live in a state where trucks are highly priced!
12-30-18, 05:13 PM
#413
Difficult Conversations are Necessary
I think it is nice that you bought a Lexus GS, but to say that Lexus should kill off the GS as your title is a bit harsh! You know this is a GS community dedicated to this brand, right?! Anyways, you should be a little more subtle and write your review of the car, instead of bashing it.
We are not all rich, and from your post, you seem to brag about how you and your parents always trade up for a new or used luxury brand! Most of us, especially me can not afford to keep purchasing a brand new or used luxury car every 4-5 years! Don't get me wrong, I ain't poor, I do have a stable income from working the healthcare field.
I bought my Lexus GS for the style, color, reliability, and performance, and I am coming from a Honda civic, which is over 15 years old and running great!
FYI, Lexus is discontinuing the GS after 2019 (from what I read here!).
If you are not pleased with your purchase, go and trade it off for another Luxury car or truck, since you live in a state where trucks are highly priced!
We are not all rich, and from your post, you seem to brag about how you and your parents always trade up for a new or used luxury brand! Most of us, especially me can not afford to keep purchasing a brand new or used luxury car every 4-5 years! Don't get me wrong, I ain't poor, I do have a stable income from working the healthcare field.
I bought my Lexus GS for the style, color, reliability, and performance, and I am coming from a Honda civic, which is over 15 years old and running great!
FYI, Lexus is discontinuing the GS after 2019 (from what I read here!).
If you are not pleased with your purchase, go and trade it off for another Luxury car or truck, since you live in a state where trucks are highly priced!
No one needs a nice car. 4 wheels and transportation is a need.
Want is different. Want drives demand for higher end models—of everything.
Last edited by KAH; 12-30-18 at 06:44 PM.
12-30-18, 05:35 PM
#415
Difficult Conversations
Your ideas are in alignment with trends.
what your missing is the decision was made two years ago in Japan
the main issue beyond the suv, truck trend is the similarities of the IS, GS, Ls in a rwd platform with diminishing sales for four door sedans
so Lexus :
Left the GS to die but phasing it out
Upgrade to FWD ES to be best in class and a baby LS for 75% of their customer base that will be happy with it
In 2020 the new IS comes out which will be for buyers looking for a C, 3 series alternative.
the LS stays and gets a hydrogen or full electric powertrain which i believe was 8 years in the making, the 3.5 twin turbo is a stop gap till they perfect the technology
while at same time
Lexus truck sales have doubled cars this year
have a great product in NX, RX, GX and LX
and the UX will be a homerun
what your missing is the decision was made two years ago in Japan
the main issue beyond the suv, truck trend is the similarities of the IS, GS, Ls in a rwd platform with diminishing sales for four door sedans
so Lexus :
Left the GS to die but phasing it out
Upgrade to FWD ES to be best in class and a baby LS for 75% of their customer base that will be happy with it
In 2020 the new IS comes out which will be for buyers looking for a C, 3 series alternative.
the LS stays and gets a hydrogen or full electric powertrain which i believe was 8 years in the making, the 3.5 twin turbo is a stop gap till they perfect the technology
while at same time
Lexus truck sales have doubled cars this year
have a great product in NX, RX, GX and LX
and the UX will be a homerun
Sadly, I agree as I do believe the GS is a great car.
Anything Lexus touches in luxury or SUV/CUV is magic.
How to transfer that to GS?
LS500 and LS F Sport will succeed as the LS400 created the brand. The big luxury is where Lexus plays well against the Germans.
If anyone at Toyota truly knew the GS answer,...
Last edited by KAH; 12-30-18 at 06:32 PM.
12-30-18, 06:16 PM
#416
I still have a tough time accepting Lexus killing the GS, when they introduced a new Toyota Crown in 2018, which dies well in multitudes of countries. I guess it’s possible, since we all have given up already and talking about BMW this and Audi that. If Lexus does in fact kill the GS, why not kill the lesser selling LS, GX and LX as well. Talk about low selling models. I’ve personally been pretty loyal to my Toyotas. Swore I would never drive a FWD again, but somehow gave in and got my wife an RX. A car she said she wanted, but has been complaining about the FWD experience ever since. My bad. It’ll never happen again. If Lexus does in fact kill the RWD, I’ll officially move to the lease and dump program like so many others. I’ll. Hold out till the RWD cars are no longer available. There isn’t anything I like about driving FWD cars that’ll keep me coming back to Toyota/Lexus if there are any other options.
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12-30-18, 06:23 PM
#417
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12-30-18, 06:29 PM
#418
Lexus Test Driver
12-30-18, 06:29 PM
#419
Pole Position
Ya never know in the future demand could come back for cars. I'm glad the wife likes her RX but any SUV is incredibly boring to me. I'm just glad our RX is insanely reliable but I sure wouldn't take two of them for my GS. It's exciting for me to drive my GS, who gets excited driving a run of the mill SUV?! Bottom line is the GS is not profitable at this time and it's the only reason it's being discontinued if that turns out to be the case.
12-30-18, 06:36 PM
#420
I'm of the opinion that Lexus is only discontinuing the GS to be replaced by a GSe battery powered electric vehicle due for release in a number of years time.
"e" is the suffix for Lexus battery powered electric vehicles.
"e" is the suffix for Lexus battery powered electric vehicles.
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