Buying a GS tomorrow - need help deciding between two
06-28-17, 10:36 AM
#16
If able, rent a car for a month and find the car of your dreams, sub-50K miles, preferably F-Sport or w Lux Pkg. 2014 has slightly better options like folding mirrors and power trunk. Should be able to get for under 30K and no need for warranty
06-28-17, 11:20 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Hey everyone - I'm still searching for a GS and need to make a decision tomorrow morning. I have a feeling the general consensus will be that neither of these cars are the perfect car but I do not have luxury of waiting around for the perfect specimen, unfortunately. Here it goes:
Car A: 2013 Lexus GS 350 with backup sensors, headlight washers, heated steering wheel. 93k miles. One owner. Very well taken care of at Lexus dealership every 5k miles. $21.3k
Car B: 2013 Lexus GS 350 with backup sensors, headlight washers, blind spot monitoring, heated steering wheel. 44k miles. Two owners, one of which was a lease. Maintenance records are pretty good - car saw dealership every 5k miles until it hit 31k miles then records drop off. $27k
I can get a bumper-to-bumper warranty from my credit union for "Car A" for ~$2k. "Car B" is from CarMax so I can get one of their warranties for $1.6-3k depending on deductible and term (I would probably get something between 1.6 and 2k at carmax).
Car A is below blue book, Car B is slightly above.
Car A has some scratches on passenger side on rear and front bumpers. Front bumper is the worst of it - looks like the previous owner hit a curb or dip and broke one of the clips that secures it to the wheel well cover. There's also a tiny parking lot ding on the driver's door. I could live with this damage - it's not ideal but it's also not extreme.. I've thought about getting a new bumper cover - maybe even the F-Sport version but my body shop tells me it will likely cost ~$1000 to paint/install. This car drives really well. There are some very minor interior rattles from the sun visor on the driver's side that I think can be easily fixed but otherwise it seems to be a great car. I've been 'test driving' this car for the past 5 days and really love it. When gunning the throttle aggressively it seems to shift just fine compared to Car B - maybe just a tad less smoothly but such a slight amount that it could just be my imagination. My only complaint is some obnoxious brake noise when lightly applying the brake pedal but I've read on these forums that this is super common and not a cause for alarm. Hopefully that is correct?
Car B was mostly seen in the dark but looks to be in good condition. CarMax shows they touched up a total of 45 spots on the car but they were not very obvious without sunlight. When driving it around on a short test drive I thought it might be handling bumps a bit smoother than Car A but again, the difference was slight and possibly just in my head.
I've found other 350's in my area from 23k-27k but they all have some sort of problem.. scummy dealership, too many owners, frame damage, used as uber, broken sunshade, etc. These other cars are all between these two extremes in mileage and none are below 70k miles.
If you care about color: Car A is 'Gray' (sorry I don't know the right color nomenclature) with Flaxen interior. Car B is 'Silver' with black interior. I somewhat prefer the 'Gray' color and the black interior but also don't mind Flaxen.
Other than the colors, missing blind spot monitor on Car A, bumper damage on Car A, and mileage - they are pretty much the same cars. No Mark Levinson in either car (though I must say.. Lexus' premium audio sounds way better than the fancy 'Krell' system in the Acura I was considering as an alternative - RLX Advance FWIW.. not to mention how much more responsive the system is).
If I add warranties to both cars, the price difference remains ~$5.9k. If we deduct $1000 for the bumper damage, the difference is still $4.9k.
Neither dealership will negotiate on price. I got Car A down to 21.3 from 23 already and Car B is from CarMax where they refuse to haggle.
What would you all do? I can potentially afford either but I'm having a hard time justifying the extra expense for the lower mileage model.
Here are a couple additional questions: how much value do you think blind spot monitoring adds to the 350? For those who have or considered the 'Flaxen' interior color.. do you still like it? It's a somewhat jarring color in my opinion and people who see it seem to either love it or hate it. I am in the 'love it' camp but worry I might end up wishing I'd gotten a plain black interior down the road. Are people actually paying to add headlight washers? Who needs these? lol
Car A: 2013 Lexus GS 350 with backup sensors, headlight washers, heated steering wheel. 93k miles. One owner. Very well taken care of at Lexus dealership every 5k miles. $21.3k
Car B: 2013 Lexus GS 350 with backup sensors, headlight washers, blind spot monitoring, heated steering wheel. 44k miles. Two owners, one of which was a lease. Maintenance records are pretty good - car saw dealership every 5k miles until it hit 31k miles then records drop off. $27k
I can get a bumper-to-bumper warranty from my credit union for "Car A" for ~$2k. "Car B" is from CarMax so I can get one of their warranties for $1.6-3k depending on deductible and term (I would probably get something between 1.6 and 2k at carmax).
Car A is below blue book, Car B is slightly above.
Car A has some scratches on passenger side on rear and front bumpers. Front bumper is the worst of it - looks like the previous owner hit a curb or dip and broke one of the clips that secures it to the wheel well cover. There's also a tiny parking lot ding on the driver's door. I could live with this damage - it's not ideal but it's also not extreme.. I've thought about getting a new bumper cover - maybe even the F-Sport version but my body shop tells me it will likely cost ~$1000 to paint/install. This car drives really well. There are some very minor interior rattles from the sun visor on the driver's side that I think can be easily fixed but otherwise it seems to be a great car. I've been 'test driving' this car for the past 5 days and really love it. When gunning the throttle aggressively it seems to shift just fine compared to Car B - maybe just a tad less smoothly but such a slight amount that it could just be my imagination. My only complaint is some obnoxious brake noise when lightly applying the brake pedal but I've read on these forums that this is super common and not a cause for alarm. Hopefully that is correct?
Car B was mostly seen in the dark but looks to be in good condition. CarMax shows they touched up a total of 45 spots on the car but they were not very obvious without sunlight. When driving it around on a short test drive I thought it might be handling bumps a bit smoother than Car A but again, the difference was slight and possibly just in my head.
I've found other 350's in my area from 23k-27k but they all have some sort of problem.. scummy dealership, too many owners, frame damage, used as uber, broken sunshade, etc. These other cars are all between these two extremes in mileage and none are below 70k miles.
If you care about color: Car A is 'Gray' (sorry I don't know the right color nomenclature) with Flaxen interior. Car B is 'Silver' with black interior. I somewhat prefer the 'Gray' color and the black interior but also don't mind Flaxen.
Other than the colors, missing blind spot monitor on Car A, bumper damage on Car A, and mileage - they are pretty much the same cars. No Mark Levinson in either car (though I must say.. Lexus' premium audio sounds way better than the fancy 'Krell' system in the Acura I was considering as an alternative - RLX Advance FWIW.. not to mention how much more responsive the system is).
If I add warranties to both cars, the price difference remains ~$5.9k. If we deduct $1000 for the bumper damage, the difference is still $4.9k.
Neither dealership will negotiate on price. I got Car A down to 21.3 from 23 already and Car B is from CarMax where they refuse to haggle.
What would you all do? I can potentially afford either but I'm having a hard time justifying the extra expense for the lower mileage model.
Here are a couple additional questions: how much value do you think blind spot monitoring adds to the 350? For those who have or considered the 'Flaxen' interior color.. do you still like it? It's a somewhat jarring color in my opinion and people who see it seem to either love it or hate it. I am in the 'love it' camp but worry I might end up wishing I'd gotten a plain black interior down the road. Are people actually paying to add headlight washers? Who needs these? lol
Car B is priced too high for the year/mileage, Carmax is always priced 3-5K too high for cars in the 20's to mid 30's and I heard they pretty much don't negotiate much at all.
I don't even look at cars on Carmax or Carvana in my search because they are so overpriced.
I would not let uber or even a broken sunshade totally write other cars off, just lower your offering price for the repair. The KRELL system in the RLX is far superior to the Lexus standard system and generally considered better then ML, you must have had the settings wrong or listening to poor quality source material in the RLX.
06-28-17, 11:58 AM
#18
06-28-17, 01:15 PM
#19
Driver School Candidate
Say what you want to say but.... FOREIGN CARS ARE MADE AND BUILT TO LAST. I'm a firm believer in this.
06-28-17, 02:49 PM
#20
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Thanks everyone for your advice so far. I agree with those who said the CarMax model was a bit overpriced. If I add a warranty to that car I'm nearly in CPO territory and might as well just buy one of these $32k CPOs.
It's encouraging to see that some of you are recommending the high mileage vehicle. For those recommending I negotiate with them, it's not happening. I've definitely tried. They've been a great dealership to work with though. I emailed them about the car last week and they drove it ~70 miles to my work and let me test drive the vehicle over the weekend. In fact, I still have the car on this test drive and am just deciding whether I should keep it.
I did ask them to potentially fix the bumper but they say they can wholesale the car at this price and can't really do any body work. I thought I'd have some wiggle room in price/negotiations considering they'd have to send another two driver's out to pick up the vehicle if I turned it down but that simply wasn't the case.
I did notice that the dealer paperwork says they replaced the front brakes and oil. I asked if something might be wrong with the brakes given the screeching noise that seems to be getting worse as well as why they used 5w40 instead of 0w20 (is there a reason? Is this bad for engine?). The salesman said he'd have driver's come take it back to the dealership to get the brakes checked and to see if they need to swap out the oil.
The dealership (a Mercedes dealership), has been great to work with. They're willing to do everything remotely and honestly I've never encountered such service when buying a used car. He also said they'd look at some of the lighter scratches near the rear bumper to see if they can be buffed out. He also might be bringing me a loaner just so I don't have to drive around my rental (which I already have from the other party's insurance.. so I wasn't even worried about it)
I'm still hesitant to buy at this mileage for this price but the car has been great over the past five days. I can see why you guys like them so much. I would never usually consider paying close to 30k for a used car but this does seem like a car I'll keep for 6-10 years.
Do you guys think it would be worth taking into a Lexus dealership for a pre purchase inspection? It's ~$205 for the inspection.. I'm just not sure whether we call them a 'stealership' on these forums like we did in the Honda forums.
I also realized that "car c" recommended above is RWD which is a no go for me in Colorado. Everything I've been looking at is AWD (not sure how much of an effect this has on price because most local 350s are AWD)
Finally, Krell wasn't for me. It sounded great with certain music and awful with others. Anything bass heavy sounded like garbage in my opinion and the same material sounds great in the GS. Sound is definitely subjective to some extent though, I'm just saying I wouldn't pay extra for Krell. The worst part of that stereo wasn't the speakers though, it was the receiver/infotainment. Any button you press took upwards of 2 seconds to register and using Bluetooth was horribly slow compared to the GS. The RLX drove itself almost autonomously in stop and go traffic though, so there's that.
Anyway, I'm leaning towards going with Car A but will continue to search in the meantime. I did miss out on a nice 70k mile luxury package model a couple weeks ago and continue to kick myself for not buying it at the time. I didn't like the color combo though, blue with flaxen interior.. it's grown on me since though and the seats were comfy. It was ~24.5k but they dropped it to 22.9 and I didn't move quickly enough.
It's encouraging to see that some of you are recommending the high mileage vehicle. For those recommending I negotiate with them, it's not happening. I've definitely tried. They've been a great dealership to work with though. I emailed them about the car last week and they drove it ~70 miles to my work and let me test drive the vehicle over the weekend. In fact, I still have the car on this test drive and am just deciding whether I should keep it.
I did ask them to potentially fix the bumper but they say they can wholesale the car at this price and can't really do any body work. I thought I'd have some wiggle room in price/negotiations considering they'd have to send another two driver's out to pick up the vehicle if I turned it down but that simply wasn't the case.
I did notice that the dealer paperwork says they replaced the front brakes and oil. I asked if something might be wrong with the brakes given the screeching noise that seems to be getting worse as well as why they used 5w40 instead of 0w20 (is there a reason? Is this bad for engine?). The salesman said he'd have driver's come take it back to the dealership to get the brakes checked and to see if they need to swap out the oil.
The dealership (a Mercedes dealership), has been great to work with. They're willing to do everything remotely and honestly I've never encountered such service when buying a used car. He also said they'd look at some of the lighter scratches near the rear bumper to see if they can be buffed out. He also might be bringing me a loaner just so I don't have to drive around my rental (which I already have from the other party's insurance.. so I wasn't even worried about it)
I'm still hesitant to buy at this mileage for this price but the car has been great over the past five days. I can see why you guys like them so much. I would never usually consider paying close to 30k for a used car but this does seem like a car I'll keep for 6-10 years.
Do you guys think it would be worth taking into a Lexus dealership for a pre purchase inspection? It's ~$205 for the inspection.. I'm just not sure whether we call them a 'stealership' on these forums like we did in the Honda forums.
I also realized that "car c" recommended above is RWD which is a no go for me in Colorado. Everything I've been looking at is AWD (not sure how much of an effect this has on price because most local 350s are AWD)
Finally, Krell wasn't for me. It sounded great with certain music and awful with others. Anything bass heavy sounded like garbage in my opinion and the same material sounds great in the GS. Sound is definitely subjective to some extent though, I'm just saying I wouldn't pay extra for Krell. The worst part of that stereo wasn't the speakers though, it was the receiver/infotainment. Any button you press took upwards of 2 seconds to register and using Bluetooth was horribly slow compared to the GS. The RLX drove itself almost autonomously in stop and go traffic though, so there's that.
Anyway, I'm leaning towards going with Car A but will continue to search in the meantime. I did miss out on a nice 70k mile luxury package model a couple weeks ago and continue to kick myself for not buying it at the time. I didn't like the color combo though, blue with flaxen interior.. it's grown on me since though and the seats were comfy. It was ~24.5k but they dropped it to 22.9 and I didn't move quickly enough.
06-28-17, 04:18 PM
#21
Intermediate
I bought a 1997 Nissan Maxima at 108,000 miles on it and now it sits at 313,000 with the original engine and transmission. The body of the car has taken a hit but everything else works including the A/C.
Say what you want to say but.... FOREIGN CARS ARE MADE AND BUILT TO LAST. I'm a firm believer in this.
Say what you want to say but.... FOREIGN CARS ARE MADE AND BUILT TO LAST. I'm a firm believer in this.
06-28-17, 04:29 PM
#22
Intermediate
Certainly yes. That $205 is well worth it assuming they will closely look inside the hood and under the car.
06-28-17, 07:22 PM
#23
I bought a 1997 Nissan Maxima at 108,000 miles on it and now it sits at 313,000 with the original engine and transmission. The body of the car has taken a hit but everything else works including the A/C.
Say what you want to say but.... FOREIGN CARS ARE MADE AND BUILT TO LAST. I'm a firm believer in this.
Say what you want to say but.... FOREIGN CARS ARE MADE AND BUILT TO LAST. I'm a firm believer in this.
06-28-17, 09:53 PM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
I would get the PPI with that mileage to be on the safe side and see if they can tell you why the brakes are making the noise, you should at least get the brakes fixed and working properly before you hand them a check.
Have them put the right oil in it too. 5W40 likely won't do damage if you are not putting many miles on it but it is not the correct oil and will be too thick to properly lubricate the tighter tolerances. I would test drive the car with the 0W20 once they put the correct oil in just to make sure they were not trying to mask any engine noises by using a thicker oil. Very odd they would use 5W40 as it is not very common for cars.
Don't feel bad, I am skipping a LS460 that meets my criteria and price because it is blue, I just can't do a blue sedan, especially a blue LS. 22.9 was a nice price for a luxury package but not the deal of a lifetime with around 70K miles.
Have them put the right oil in it too. 5W40 likely won't do damage if you are not putting many miles on it but it is not the correct oil and will be too thick to properly lubricate the tighter tolerances. I would test drive the car with the 0W20 once they put the correct oil in just to make sure they were not trying to mask any engine noises by using a thicker oil. Very odd they would use 5W40 as it is not very common for cars.
Don't feel bad, I am skipping a LS460 that meets my criteria and price because it is blue, I just can't do a blue sedan, especially a blue LS. 22.9 was a nice price for a luxury package but not the deal of a lifetime with around 70K miles.
06-29-17, 09:14 AM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
06-29-17, 07:41 PM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
i meant a totally different car. $21-27,000 can get you a brand new Accord for example. Why spend on a soon to be 5 year old car if it's not in the condition you're looking for or be happy with?
06-29-17, 09:22 PM
#28
CarMax sucks. I looked at a few at Carmax and left very disappointed with the condition of the cars. They had ***** asking the same price as a Lexus Certified Pre-Owned in excellent condition. Bought a CPO from a Lexus dealer and couldn't be happier. Car is in excellent condition; previous owner didn't even take half of the plastic wrapping of the interior pieces....
06-29-17, 09:27 PM
#29
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The reason I have been looking at the GS 350 is leg room and my affinity for Japanese cars. My last car was totaled in a rear-end collision. A truck hit me at ~30mph while I was at a stop and pushed me into another truck in front of me. At 6'8" tall, I had little legroom in the Accord and my shin and knee were thrown directly into the dash. The new Accords seem to be even more cramped than my 2008 so I started looking for a bigger car and thought the GS 350 (especially with its knee airbags) would be a better fit. Also, the car is awesome. Sure, I could get a Kia Optima instead.. but then I'd be driving a Kia.
Anyway - I am feeling good about the 93k mile car. It drives great. I've test driven about six GS 350's now and this car does not show its age nearly as I would have thought with this mileage. There are little subtle differences.. slightly smoother ride, slightly smoother shifts, slightly fewer interior rattles.. but they are all very slight differences.
Unfortunately, a chip on the windshield seems to have expanded into a large crack today. I've been babying the car all day after deciding to buy and truly do not believe I am responsible for the chip or crack in the windshield. I'm generally quite aware of stone chips when driving on the highway and have been keeping a considerable difference when following other cars because (a) it's not my car and (b) I want it to be my car.
I'm not sure how the dealership will handle the situation but I called them to let them know this happened and sent some photos of the crack over. The salesman said he'd try to find a way to make everyone happy but I'm not sure.. I believe they might try and hold me responsible for the damage if I don't buy or refuse to fix if I do buy. There are definitely other small chips in the windshield that have not been repaired so I hope they choose to make it right somehow. This windshield seems to be quite expensive to replace - any experience with this?
Ugh - just when I make up my mind.. this happens. We'll see how it goes but it makes me very weary of ever taking a dealer up on a weekend/week-long test drive in the future.
I also found a guy on Craiglist selling his 2013. I test drove but the gentleman would not move down from $29k price on his 55k mile GS in spite of asking me to come test drive when I offered $24k by email. His car was in great shape but considering he didn't have BSM or the Luxury Package, it didn't seem like a fair price to me (even more than the CarMax car which only has 44k miles and BSM). He was nice, though, and his car was in excellent shape. It just didn't seem worth paying more than bluebook for a non-CPO car. He said he had a buyer at 28.8 but I'm not sure I believe him since he was showing the car to me after my offer of 24. I would have gone as high as 27 on that car. It was Fire Agate Pearl with Flaxen interior FWIW - an interesting color but I think I prefer the Nebula Gray Pearl of Car A.
06-29-17, 09:39 PM
#30
I don't think you're wrong. My last four cars were Honda Accords. I've never bought a new car though, the depreciation would just lead to too much buyer's remorse for me.
The reason I have been looking at the GS 350 is leg room and my affinity for Japanese cars. My last car was totaled in a rear-end collision. A truck hit me at ~30mph while I was at a stop and pushed me into another truck in front of me. At 6'8" tall, I had little legroom in the Accord and my shin and knee were thrown directly into the dash. The new Accords seem to be even more cramped than my 2008 so I started looking for a bigger car and thought the GS 350 (especially with its knee airbags) would be a better fit. Also, the car is awesome. Sure, I could get a Kia Optima instead.. but then I'd be driving a Kia.
Anyway - I am feeling good about the 93k mile car. It drives great. I've test driven about six GS 350's now and this car does not show its age nearly as I would have thought with this mileage. There are little subtle differences.. slightly smoother ride, slightly smoother shifts, slightly fewer interior rattles.. but they are all very slight differences.
Unfortunately, a chip on the windshield seems to have expanded into a large crack today. I've been babying the car all day after deciding to buy and truly do not believe I am responsible for the chip or crack in the windshield. I'm generally quite aware of stone chips when driving on the highway and have been keeping a considerable difference when following other cars because (a) it's not my car and (b) I want it to be my car.
I'm not sure how the dealership will handle the situation but I called them to let them know this happened and sent some photos of the crack over. The salesman said he'd try to find a way to make everyone happy but I'm not sure.. I believe they might try and hold me responsible for the damage if I don't buy or refuse to fix if I do buy. There are definitely other small chips in the windshield that have not been repaired so I hope they choose to make it right somehow. This windshield seems to be quite expensive to replace - any experience with this?
Ugh - just when I make up my mind.. this happens. We'll see how it goes but it makes me very weary of ever taking a dealer up on a weekend/week-long test drive in the future.
I also found a guy on Craiglist selling his 2013. I test drove but the gentleman would not move down from $29k price on his 55k mile GS in spite of asking me to come test drive when I offered $24k by email. His car was in great shape but considering he didn't have BSM or the Luxury Package, it didn't seem like a fair price to me (even more than the CarMax car which only has 44k miles and BSM). He was nice, though, and his car was in excellent shape. It just didn't seem worth paying more than bluebook for a non-CPO car. He said he had a buyer at 28.8 but I'm not sure I believe him since he was showing the car to me after my offer of 24. I would have gone as high as 27 on that car. It was Fire Agate Pearl with Flaxen interior FWIW - an interesting color but I think I prefer the Nebula Gray Pearl of Car A.
The reason I have been looking at the GS 350 is leg room and my affinity for Japanese cars. My last car was totaled in a rear-end collision. A truck hit me at ~30mph while I was at a stop and pushed me into another truck in front of me. At 6'8" tall, I had little legroom in the Accord and my shin and knee were thrown directly into the dash. The new Accords seem to be even more cramped than my 2008 so I started looking for a bigger car and thought the GS 350 (especially with its knee airbags) would be a better fit. Also, the car is awesome. Sure, I could get a Kia Optima instead.. but then I'd be driving a Kia.
Anyway - I am feeling good about the 93k mile car. It drives great. I've test driven about six GS 350's now and this car does not show its age nearly as I would have thought with this mileage. There are little subtle differences.. slightly smoother ride, slightly smoother shifts, slightly fewer interior rattles.. but they are all very slight differences.
Unfortunately, a chip on the windshield seems to have expanded into a large crack today. I've been babying the car all day after deciding to buy and truly do not believe I am responsible for the chip or crack in the windshield. I'm generally quite aware of stone chips when driving on the highway and have been keeping a considerable difference when following other cars because (a) it's not my car and (b) I want it to be my car.
I'm not sure how the dealership will handle the situation but I called them to let them know this happened and sent some photos of the crack over. The salesman said he'd try to find a way to make everyone happy but I'm not sure.. I believe they might try and hold me responsible for the damage if I don't buy or refuse to fix if I do buy. There are definitely other small chips in the windshield that have not been repaired so I hope they choose to make it right somehow. This windshield seems to be quite expensive to replace - any experience with this?
Ugh - just when I make up my mind.. this happens. We'll see how it goes but it makes me very weary of ever taking a dealer up on a weekend/week-long test drive in the future.
I also found a guy on Craiglist selling his 2013. I test drove but the gentleman would not move down from $29k price on his 55k mile GS in spite of asking me to come test drive when I offered $24k by email. His car was in great shape but considering he didn't have BSM or the Luxury Package, it didn't seem like a fair price to me (even more than the CarMax car which only has 44k miles and BSM). He was nice, though, and his car was in excellent shape. It just didn't seem worth paying more than bluebook for a non-CPO car. He said he had a buyer at 28.8 but I'm not sure I believe him since he was showing the car to me after my offer of 24. I would have gone as high as 27 on that car. It was Fire Agate Pearl with Flaxen interior FWIW - an interesting color but I think I prefer the Nebula Gray Pearl of Car A.