SW17LS

Karma? What do I care if the LS500 is too sporty? I'll buy something else.

Complaining that a company is building products you don't like makes no sense. Buy products you like. Lexus isn't the only company that makes luxury sedans.

JDR76

Doesn't really bother me, no. The GS sales are pretty much where they always are at this point in a GS generation.

peteharvey

Partly true - but you can think of it another way - give Lexus constructive feedback to tailor machine for man, and not the other way around.
Make a car that suits the majority, and have a second set of coils/dampers like the ES for the GS F Sport - furthermore, there are plenty of aftermarket coilovers out there for the niche sports market, but not the other way around.

peteharvey

I bet you TMC and Akio cares about volume and profits, but they have to learn to achieve volume and profits the right way.

SW17LS

They've made cars that suit the "majority" forever. And they still make those cars. The ES and LS ride great. Why should every model be the same sort of car? You just didn't buy the right car for what you're looking for.

The fact that they have the ES means the GS can be more of a niche vehicle.

There are tons of cars in that size category that will ride how you want.

JDR76

One would certainly hope so. I suspect that's why they're working on the next gen GS.

My issue is that you seem to be attributing this current direction of Lexus to be the reason GS sales have declined 5+ years into this GS model. The previous Lexus direction did not yield better results at this point in a GS lifecycle. Or have I misinterpreted your comments?

peteharvey

I have the older GS350 too & it has a lovely ride.
They certainly have made the 4GS more niche, but it is a complex situation since certain models like the hybrids have the traditional ride.

There are plenty of choices, but not easy to find a package like GS.
The ES is more budget with cheaper plastics/leather & cheaper stitching.
While LS is much bigger & heavier car.

peteharvey

I like Akio's new found styling.

The GS range already has at least several different spring/damper rates.
It's best to use the softer ratings on the standard models, with the firmer ratings on the F Sport models.
Rather than have niche firm sports springs/dampers on both the Luxury and F Sport models as Steve hints below.
This would certainly help to keep both parties happy.

jonathancl

I was driving a lowered (l-tuned) 2001 GS430 for thirteen years, got accustomed to it's stiffness and road feel.

A month ago, I drove a 2008 LS460, and it just wasn't for me: too soft and too distant, and it felt big to drive.

Then I drove some a couple 4GSs and found them to be in the right spot: refined and comfortable but power at the ready and control when desired.

I would say the GS is a great way to connect to the road without sacrificing the comfort and refinement you've known from your LS.

peteharvey

4GS is a great 50/50 blend between speed and comfort.
The Luxury trim with 19" wheels almost handles like a compact.

SW17LS

Don't you constantly complain about the way your 4GS rides ?!?

peteharvey

Like anything, 4GS has its good and bad points.
Handling? Great.
Ride is obviously not its forte.
We can't be too greedy and demand a perfect car.

peteharvey

Notice how E Class and 5 Series don't have AMG Sport and M Sport suspension [spring/dampers/roll bars] as standard fitment across the range?
Likewise, best GS not fit sports springs/dampers onto base and Luxury model.

4GS range actually has at least several different spring/damper rates.
Best 4GS use the standard softer settings on the base and Luxury models, while the F Sport models can use the firmer ratings.

Those European GS250's and GS300h's obviously don't handle as well, but they have very good ride, and very decent handling.

SW17LS

The base GS200t and GS350 don't have the sport dampers and suspension. Only the F Sport, and arguably the Luxury with adaptive suspension.

peteharvey

I haven't compared suspension part numbers for the US 200t, but I have driven them before, and I suspect it has similar spring/damper rates to the 350, albeit without the adaptive automatic electronic variable dampers, and being softer only from the entry level 17" alloys and 225/55R17 tires.
The European GS300h is really nice; it feel even more isolated than an ES350.

Also, several years ago when my missus bought her IS250 F Sport, we test drove and test drove, and [without comparing part numbers at all] we thought that the IS base and F Sport had pretty much the same suspension, except for the F Sport's electronic variable dampers, and their sportier 18" asymmetric wheels/tires.
However, this year when she bought her IS200t, we test drove and test drove the base model against the F Sport, and this time round, Lexus has certainly done something to the F Sport's suspension - it feels more firmly damped and knobbier, and not as nice a ride as the original IS250 F Sport.
Tire pressures were always checked prior to test drives.
_