Originally Posted by Afrosheen

Thanks buddy, I didn't get my *** handed to me the first time, but now I truly see the error of my opinion. Anyone else wanna kick me while I'm down?

Originally Posted by SW13GS

First of all...last March is a year ago. Thats an eternity in the automobile industry. In any event, they've gone from an average age of 66 to an average age of 57...thats a huge accomplishment. Their buyer will always be older than "average" because thats the buyer they're really targeting.

As for "lagging behind average sales" what does that even mean? Every marque is going to have their own sales targets and goals, its not a zero sum game. Comparing the sales of one brand to another doesn't really always tell you much.



Theres so much wrong here:

1. While Hyundai and Kia are addressing a young market, that is certainly not even their focus..especially Hyundai. What are the two big releases from Hyundai and Kia right now? The K900 for Kia, which is a large $60,000+ luxury car, and the Genesis, which is a midrange near-luxury/luxury car. Neither car is aimed at a "20 something college kid". The next big thing for Hyundai is the Sonata, which is a family sedan not something for 20 something college kids. Before that it was the Santa Fe 5 and then 7 passenger. Same thing. I see no evidence at all that young markets are even a primary focus for Hyundai/Kia right now.

2. Yes Hyundai and Kia currently beat Toyota and Honda on value proposition, but the gap is narrowing, not widening. As time goes on Hyundai and Kia prices are RISING, not dropping. As their reputation improves they're nudging prices up. Eventually they'll be seen as peers to Toyota and Honda and the price chasm will have evaporated.



Search on CL for "exploding sunroof"...plenty of threads. Guy in the GX forum just had his rear window on a GX with 300 miles on it explode in a parking lot. There's security camera footage. That happens with all brands, its one of the drawbacks of tempered glass.



Again, this is really not the case. By the mid 1990s Apple had become a company that had a reputation for building overpriced, incompatible computers and was in a terrible state financially. The company was very close to going under.

When Steve Jobs came back to Apple and started re-imagining the company, he took them from the point of being seen as an "overpriced" computer supplier, to a company that had a very expensive product that people wanted to have and be seen having. Its an entirely different thing. Apple really had three game changers, long before the iPhone, the Apple stores, the original iMac, and the original iPod. The Apple store provided a dramatic showcase for them to present Apple products as the pinnacle of design and execution. Nobody else did anything like that. The iMac brought to the computer industry the computer as an object of desire and style. The iPod and subsequently iTunes revolutionized the music industry and completely changed how we as consumers consume music. The iPhone could not have existed without the iPod or iTunes, same with the iPad. Apple's brand re-invention was WELL underway before the iPhone was even conceived of. If anything, Apple is one of the most successful examples of brand re-engineering we've seen.



I'm not sure how old you are, but there was a time when Samsung was an economy brand. Before phones and TVs. They've reinvented themselves and have positioned themselves as a leader in smart phones, especially TVs, appliances, etc. Huge turnaround.



Lincoln has a lot of problems, one of those problems is just poor product. In order to re-imagine your brand and lure in more style conscious buyers the first step is to offer great products people want to buy...and Lincoln just doesn't do that. I personally think its too late for Lincoln.



There's an old saying, "someone with experience is not at the mercy of someone with an opinion". Thats not meant to be a dig at you, but from our exchanges here it seems pretty clear to me that you haven't spent a lot of time reading about and doing research into business concepts or the history of a lot of these companies we've talked about. Thats okay, we all have different focuses in our lives. However, I have spent many years in the business world and I've spent many years following these companies, their markets, what they've done and what the results have been...its an interest of mine both professionally and personally. When I see things that are just plain incorrect being put out there...like Apple never had an image problem, or that Hyundai's main focus is on college 20 somethings, or that Buick is not doing well because they've taken their average age from 66 to 57 but the average is still 52...I've got to present the other side of things.