2013 GS 350 F-Sport Outhandles 2013 BMW M5 ? Discuss
10-04-12, 10:21 PM
#16
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I had a few small kinks for the first couple weeks but I really enjoy my fsport now. When I see it parked in the lot, I like knowing its me that gets to drive it. I casually looked at beemers, Audi, and infinity, but when I opened the door at the dealer, I loved the clean contemporary interior (liquid platinum with cabernet). I sat in those awesome seats and asked for a test drive. Then on the test drive in sport+ I was sold. I can't believe it's not getting more rave reviews.
We're supposed to get snow this weekend, so I'll post on how well the snow button works
We're supposed to get snow this weekend, so I'll post on how well the snow button works
10-05-12, 08:31 PM
#17
Lexus Champion
I had a few small kinks for the first couple weeks but I really enjoy my fsport now. When I see it parked in the lot, I like knowing its me that gets to drive it. I casually looked at beemers, Audi, and infinity, but when I opened the door at the dealer, I loved the clean contemporary interior (liquid platinum with cabernet). I sat in those awesome seats and asked for a test drive. Then on the test drive in sport+ I was sold. I can't believe it's not getting more rave reviews.
We're supposed to get snow this weekend, so I'll post on how well the snow button works
We're supposed to get snow this weekend, so I'll post on how well the snow button works
BTW, the car is getting lots of rave reviews from the auto experts, but most everyday drivers just don't read them.
10-06-12, 04:55 AM
#18
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Thread Starter
Years from now, we'll look back and only then be able to fully appreciate the magnitude of the feat Lexus pulled off with the 4GS.
To put things in further perspective, here's the 69.7mph slalom speed of the 2013 GS350 F-Sport pitted against those of established super-sedans :
2013 Audi RS5 (450hp/317lb-ft torque): 69.2mph
http://www.insideline.com/audi/rs5/2...full-test.html
2012 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Coupe Black Series (510hp/457lb-ft torque): 69.5mph
http://www.insideline.com/features/2...rack-test.html
2011 BMW M3 Coupe (414hp/295lb-ft torque) : 67.7mph
2011 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe (556hp/551lb-ft torque) : 68.2mph
http://www.insideline.com/cadillac/c...-m3-coupe.html
2006 BMW E60 M5 (V10 engine) (500hp/383lb-ft torque) : 69.2mph
http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m5/200...06-bmw-m5.html
and against it's main competitors:
2012 Audi A6 3.0T (310hp/325lb-ft torque): 67.2mph
2011 BMW 535i (300hp/300lb-ft torque): 64.5mph
http://www.insideline.com/audi/a6/20...ison-test.html
To put things in further perspective, here's the 69.7mph slalom speed of the 2013 GS350 F-Sport pitted against those of established super-sedans :
2013 Audi RS5 (450hp/317lb-ft torque): 69.2mph
http://www.insideline.com/audi/rs5/2...full-test.html
2012 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Coupe Black Series (510hp/457lb-ft torque): 69.5mph
http://www.insideline.com/features/2...rack-test.html
2011 BMW M3 Coupe (414hp/295lb-ft torque) : 67.7mph
2011 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe (556hp/551lb-ft torque) : 68.2mph
http://www.insideline.com/cadillac/c...-m3-coupe.html
2006 BMW E60 M5 (V10 engine) (500hp/383lb-ft torque) : 69.2mph
http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m5/200...06-bmw-m5.html
and against it's main competitors:
2012 Audi A6 3.0T (310hp/325lb-ft torque): 67.2mph
2011 BMW 535i (300hp/300lb-ft torque): 64.5mph
http://www.insideline.com/audi/a6/20...ison-test.html
10-06-12, 08:16 AM
#19
This assertion is like saying Rosie O'Donnell is better than Keira Knightly because she has bigger breasts.
For anyone who wants to know the truth, come race me at Palm Beach International Raceway (a street circuit) and let's see which is faster.
For anyone who wants to know the truth, come race me at Palm Beach International Raceway (a street circuit) and let's see which is faster.
10-06-12, 09:51 AM
#21
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10-06-12, 01:36 PM
#22
"2013 GS 350 F-Sport Outhandles 2013 BMW M5 ? Discuss"
We must be careful here.
We best compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges.
A Mazda MX-5 could go through the slalom faster than a Lamborghini Diablo, however the big wide Lamborghini will out-g the MX-5 on the skid pan.
Similarly, a go kart can change directions faster than a Formula 1 car, but the Formula 1 car will pull more g's than the go kart on the skid pan and around corners and curves etc.
Similarly, the old 3GS350 V6 would change directions faster than the old 3GS460 V8.
An IS350 V6 will change directions faster than an IS-F V8.
A BMW 535i in-line 6 will change directions faster than an M5 V8 or V10.
Similarly, a current 4GS350 will change directions faster than the 200 kg/450 lbs heavier 4GS450h hybrid.
However, it is the real purpose of the M5 V10's and V8's, Lexus own IS-F V8 and the porky 400 lbs+ extra weight GS450h hybrid to blow the others away in a straight line, not so much around the slalom.
Actually, theoretically the GS450h hybrid may not be as much affected on the slalom, as it is affected on the skid pan, because most of the GS450h hybrid's extra 400 lbs weight is on the tail - not on the nose like the V8's and V10's.
One more point is that we must treat these slalom and skid pan figures "like a grain of salt".
Because performance, and handling in particular varies widely depending on the weather conditions like temperature, atmospheric pressure, humidity, and bitumen surface etc, such that slalom and skid pan data is only strictly comparable when obtained back to back on the same day, in the same session eg cool early morning, or hot mid-afternoon etc.
Engine performance is superior early in the morning, while handling tests are superior in the heat of the afternoon.
Handling data is not really comparable when not taken back to back, and when obtained on different days, and different sessions.
In other words, the same GS350 or M5 will produce different sets of data on different days, and different data even on the same day but different sessions!
So the data is helpful, but we must be precautionary and take it with a grain of salt; use it as a guide rather than as the bible...
We must be careful here.
We best compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges.
A Mazda MX-5 could go through the slalom faster than a Lamborghini Diablo, however the big wide Lamborghini will out-g the MX-5 on the skid pan.
Similarly, a go kart can change directions faster than a Formula 1 car, but the Formula 1 car will pull more g's than the go kart on the skid pan and around corners and curves etc.
Similarly, the old 3GS350 V6 would change directions faster than the old 3GS460 V8.
An IS350 V6 will change directions faster than an IS-F V8.
A BMW 535i in-line 6 will change directions faster than an M5 V8 or V10.
Similarly, a current 4GS350 will change directions faster than the 200 kg/450 lbs heavier 4GS450h hybrid.
However, it is the real purpose of the M5 V10's and V8's, Lexus own IS-F V8 and the porky 400 lbs+ extra weight GS450h hybrid to blow the others away in a straight line, not so much around the slalom.
Actually, theoretically the GS450h hybrid may not be as much affected on the slalom, as it is affected on the skid pan, because most of the GS450h hybrid's extra 400 lbs weight is on the tail - not on the nose like the V8's and V10's.
One more point is that we must treat these slalom and skid pan figures "like a grain of salt".
Because performance, and handling in particular varies widely depending on the weather conditions like temperature, atmospheric pressure, humidity, and bitumen surface etc, such that slalom and skid pan data is only strictly comparable when obtained back to back on the same day, in the same session eg cool early morning, or hot mid-afternoon etc.
Engine performance is superior early in the morning, while handling tests are superior in the heat of the afternoon.
Handling data is not really comparable when not taken back to back, and when obtained on different days, and different sessions.
In other words, the same GS350 or M5 will produce different sets of data on different days, and different data even on the same day but different sessions!
So the data is helpful, but we must be precautionary and take it with a grain of salt; use it as a guide rather than as the bible...
Last edited by peteharvey; 10-06-12 at 02:18 PM.
10-06-12, 02:55 PM
#23
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The F10 M5 is a 550hp beast but in comparos has done relatively poorly compared to its predecessors who usually swept all reviews and comparisons. Its still a badass brilliant car but its no longer the lightweight standard of class. Now multiple entries are on par or better looking at reviews around the world.
The GS should be commended for being able to hang with a car that costs twice as much with 250 more hp. I don't think anyone here would take a GS over a M5.
10-07-12, 02:19 AM
#24
Pole Position
Thread Starter
"2013 GS 350 F-Sport Outhandles 2013 BMW M5 ? Discuss"
We must be careful here.
We best compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges.
A Mazda MX-5 could go through the slalom faster than a Lamborghini Diablo, however the big wide Lamborghini will out-g the MX-5 on the skid pan.
Similarly, a go kart can change directions faster than a Formula 1 car, but the Formula 1 car will pull more g's than the go kart on the skid pan and around corners and curves etc.
Similarly, the old 3GS350 V6 would change directions faster than the old 3GS460 V8.
An IS350 V6 will change directions faster than an IS-F V8.
A BMW 535i in-line 6 will change directions faster than an M5 V8 or V10.
Similarly, a current 4GS350 will change directions faster than the 200 kg/450 lbs heavier 4GS450h hybrid.
However, it is the real purpose of the M5 V10's and V8's, Lexus own IS-F V8 and the porky 400 lbs+ extra weight GS450h hybrid to blow the others away in a straight line, not so much around the slalom.
Actually, theoretically the GS450h hybrid may not be as much affected on the slalom, as it is affected on the skid pan, because most of the GS450h hybrid's extra 400 lbs weight is on the tail - not on the nose like the V8's and V10's.
One more point is that we must treat these slalom and skid pan figures "like a grain of salt".
Because performance, and handling in particular varies widely depending on the weather conditions like temperature, atmospheric pressure, humidity, and bitumen surface etc, such that slalom and skid pan data is only strictly comparable when obtained back to back on the same day, in the same session eg cool early morning, or hot mid-afternoon etc.
Engine performance is superior early in the morning, while handling tests are superior in the heat of the afternoon.
Handling data is not really comparable when not taken back to back, and when obtained on different days, and different sessions.
In other words, the same GS350 or M5 will produce different sets of data on different days, and different data even on the same day but different sessions!
So the data is helpful, but we must be precautionary and take it with a grain of salt; use it as a guide rather than as the bible...
We must be careful here.
We best compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges.
A Mazda MX-5 could go through the slalom faster than a Lamborghini Diablo, however the big wide Lamborghini will out-g the MX-5 on the skid pan.
Similarly, a go kart can change directions faster than a Formula 1 car, but the Formula 1 car will pull more g's than the go kart on the skid pan and around corners and curves etc.
Similarly, the old 3GS350 V6 would change directions faster than the old 3GS460 V8.
An IS350 V6 will change directions faster than an IS-F V8.
A BMW 535i in-line 6 will change directions faster than an M5 V8 or V10.
Similarly, a current 4GS350 will change directions faster than the 200 kg/450 lbs heavier 4GS450h hybrid.
However, it is the real purpose of the M5 V10's and V8's, Lexus own IS-F V8 and the porky 400 lbs+ extra weight GS450h hybrid to blow the others away in a straight line, not so much around the slalom.
Actually, theoretically the GS450h hybrid may not be as much affected on the slalom, as it is affected on the skid pan, because most of the GS450h hybrid's extra 400 lbs weight is on the tail - not on the nose like the V8's and V10's.
One more point is that we must treat these slalom and skid pan figures "like a grain of salt".
Because performance, and handling in particular varies widely depending on the weather conditions like temperature, atmospheric pressure, humidity, and bitumen surface etc, such that slalom and skid pan data is only strictly comparable when obtained back to back on the same day, in the same session eg cool early morning, or hot mid-afternoon etc.
Engine performance is superior early in the morning, while handling tests are superior in the heat of the afternoon.
Handling data is not really comparable when not taken back to back, and when obtained on different days, and different sessions.
In other words, the same GS350 or M5 will produce different sets of data on different days, and different data even on the same day but different sessions!
So the data is helpful, but we must be precautionary and take it with a grain of salt; use it as a guide rather than as the bible...
I commend how the current GS350 F-Sport seems to defy the laws of physics.
BTW if you look at the numbers I posted in my 2 previous posts, the 535i has a much slower slalom speed than the M5( either generation) despite being lighter.
EDIT :
Looking back at the numbers I posted, I notice that most of these super-sedans, despite the wide variation in horsepower, tend to max out at around the same 68-69mph limit, which is co-incidentally where the GS350 F-Sport lives.
My theory is that the Insideline Slalom is rigorously designed to test chassis-tuning and suspension set-up rather than hp/torque and that beyond 300hp, additional power/torque will not see further gains in slalom speed. Which is why these super-saloons lose out to the GS350 F-Sport since it is now chassis balance rather than power/torque that is the determining factor in slalom speed.
What is even more impressive is that most of these track-focused stiffly-sprung super-sedans arrive at their handling abilities at the expense of ride-comfort and livability. The GS 350 F-Sport handily outscores them in a test of chassis balance yet is supremely suited as a daily driver, with little to no penalty to ride-comfort.
It seems like the GS350 F-Sport is a mainstream engine living in a super-sedan chassis.
Last edited by natnut; 10-07-12 at 03:46 AM.
10-07-12, 11:36 PM
#25
My point is that not only does the GS350 F-Sport outhandle bigger and heavier cars like the current F10 M5, as measured by slalom speeds, it somehow manages to pull off a similar feat of outhandling smaller, lighter, more stiffly sprung and more track focused super-sedans like the AMG C-class Black, the Audi RS5 and even the M3 coupe.
I commend how the current GS350 F-Sport seems to defy the laws of physics.
BTW if you look at the numbers I posted in my 2 previous posts, the 535i has a much slower slalom speed than the M5( either generation) despite being lighter....
I commend how the current GS350 F-Sport seems to defy the laws of physics.
BTW if you look at the numbers I posted in my 2 previous posts, the 535i has a much slower slalom speed than the M5( either generation) despite being lighter....
The three Germans you compare against are all midsize 4.5 meter long sedans.
However, all three are heavy nose V8's.
V8 engines actually make the 4.5 meter midsize sedans even nose heavier than their 3/4 size sedan counterparts like the E Class, 5 Series and A6.
This is because the V8 weight is able to be better absorbed on the longer wheelbases of the E/5/A6, rather than on the shorter wheelbases of the C Class/M3 and RS5.
To really see how well the C63/M3/RS5 heavy nose V8's handle, we must compare them with the similarly sized and spec heavy nosed Lexus IS-F V8.
It's actually all to do with physics and esp mechanics.
A comparison with the GS350 F Sport is unfair, because the GS350 is the only car to have a lightweight V6, when the other four have heavy nose V8's.
The new 4GS is a good car, and I'll probably sign on the dotted line when the facelift is released, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that it seems to defy the laws of physics.
Certainly, I understand your excitement Natnut, and where you are coming from.
If the F Sport could ride like the Luxury version, and yet still handle like the F Sport, only then has it defied the laws of physics.
That last point about the 535i being slower on the slalom than the M5, I'd have to test them back to back to be certain.
I know with the old Lexus 3GS that the GS300/350 V6 is quicker at changing directions than the nose heavy GS460 V8.
I also know that a C250 CGI 4 pot has a lighter and quicker nose than the C350 V6.
One of the problems with the slalom test is that, not only does it test speed of change in direction, but it also tests bottom end punch, something which the 3.0 in-line six twin turbo doesn't have as much of compared to the V8's...
Last edited by peteharvey; 10-08-12 at 12:16 AM.
10-08-12, 06:45 AM
#26
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The GS350 V6 F Sport vs C Class AMG, M3 and Audi RS5 V8's?
The three Germans you compare against are all midsize 4.5 meter long sedans.
However, all three are heavy nose V8's.
V8 engines actually make the 4.5 meter midsize sedans even nose heavier than their 3/4 size sedan counterparts like the E Class, 5 Series and A6.
This is because the V8 weight is able to be better absorbed on the longer wheelbases of the E/5/A6, rather than on the shorter wheelbases of the C Class/M3 and RS5.
To really see how well the C63/M3/RS5 heavy nose V8's handle, we must compare them with the similarly sized and spec heavy nosed Lexus IS-F V8.
It's actually all to do with physics and esp mechanics.
A comparison with the GS350 F Sport is unfair, because the GS350 is the only car to have a lightweight V6, when the other four have heavy nose V8's.
The new 4GS is a good car, and I'll probably sign on the dotted line when the facelift is released, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that it seems to defy the laws of physics.
Certainly, I understand your excitement Natnut, and where you are coming from.
If the F Sport could ride like the Luxury version, and yet still handle like the F Sport, only then has it defied the laws of physics.
That last point about the 535i being slower on the slalom than the M5, I'd have to test them back to back to be certain.
I know with the old Lexus 3GS that the GS300/350 V6 is quicker at changing directions than the nose heavy GS460 V8.
I also know that a C250 CGI 4 pot has a lighter and quicker nose than the C350 V6.
One of the problems with the slalom test is that, not only does it test speed of change in direction, but it also tests bottom end punch, something which the 3.0 in-line six twin turbo doesn't have as much of compared to the V8's...
The three Germans you compare against are all midsize 4.5 meter long sedans.
However, all three are heavy nose V8's.
V8 engines actually make the 4.5 meter midsize sedans even nose heavier than their 3/4 size sedan counterparts like the E Class, 5 Series and A6.
This is because the V8 weight is able to be better absorbed on the longer wheelbases of the E/5/A6, rather than on the shorter wheelbases of the C Class/M3 and RS5.
To really see how well the C63/M3/RS5 heavy nose V8's handle, we must compare them with the similarly sized and spec heavy nosed Lexus IS-F V8.
It's actually all to do with physics and esp mechanics.
A comparison with the GS350 F Sport is unfair, because the GS350 is the only car to have a lightweight V6, when the other four have heavy nose V8's.
The new 4GS is a good car, and I'll probably sign on the dotted line when the facelift is released, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that it seems to defy the laws of physics.
Certainly, I understand your excitement Natnut, and where you are coming from.
If the F Sport could ride like the Luxury version, and yet still handle like the F Sport, only then has it defied the laws of physics.
That last point about the 535i being slower on the slalom than the M5, I'd have to test them back to back to be certain.
I know with the old Lexus 3GS that the GS300/350 V6 is quicker at changing directions than the nose heavy GS460 V8.
I also know that a C250 CGI 4 pot has a lighter and quicker nose than the C350 V6.
One of the problems with the slalom test is that, not only does it test speed of change in direction, but it also tests bottom end punch, something which the 3.0 in-line six twin turbo doesn't have as much of compared to the V8's...
People need to give credit where credit is due, PERIOD. People need to commend Lexus and the GS for really producing a sporting mid-size luxury vehicle.
Again I would take the M5 10 times out of 10 over the GS but the numbers do not lie in regards to what was produced here. And its not the first time that a cheaper and less capable car has put down better numbers than a superior car.
It's an interesting footnote, that is all. Nothing to defend or get upset about.
10-08-12, 02:01 PM
#27
Sorry don't agree. You run what you brung. People have no problem beating the crap out of the GS when it wasn't sportiest in class or now that the V-8 is dropped. Now all of a sudden its that the V-8 is "nose heavy"? You cannot be serious. Then we can't compare any cars since they are far from all being equal. What about that AWD GT-R that destroys pretty much anything? What about the AWD EVO?
People need to give credit where credit is due, PERIOD. People need to commend Lexus and the GS for really producing a sporting mid-size luxury vehicle.
Again I would take the M5 10 times out of 10 over the GS but the numbers do not lie in regards to what was produced here. And its not the first time that a cheaper and less capable car has put down better numbers than a superior car.
It's an interesting footnote, that is all. Nothing to defend or get upset about.
People need to give credit where credit is due, PERIOD. People need to commend Lexus and the GS for really producing a sporting mid-size luxury vehicle.
Again I would take the M5 10 times out of 10 over the GS but the numbers do not lie in regards to what was produced here. And its not the first time that a cheaper and less capable car has put down better numbers than a superior car.
It's an interesting footnote, that is all. Nothing to defend or get upset about.
Last edited by peteharvey; 10-08-12 at 02:07 PM.
10-08-12, 07:41 PM
#28
Pole Position
Thread Starter
But using your analogy, what the GS350 F-Sport has achieved is akin to an SUV outhandling a sedan since it is a family sedan but is pulling better numbers than cars in a different class (track-focused super-sedans).
So that makes it EVEN more impressive as it is no longer beating cars in its class ( like Audi A6 3.0T/BMW 535i) but it's even beating cars it has no business beating (C AMG, RS5, M3 coupe, CTS-V, M5 ).
So that makes it EVEN more impressive as it is no longer beating cars in its class ( like Audi A6 3.0T/BMW 535i) but it's even beating cars it has no business beating (C AMG, RS5, M3 coupe, CTS-V, M5 ).
10-09-12, 12:49 AM
#29
But using your analogy, what the GS350 F-Sport has achieved is akin to an SUV outhandling a sedan since it is a family sedan but is pulling better numbers than cars in a different class (track-focused super-sedans).
So that makes it EVEN more impressive as it is no longer beating cars in its class ( like Audi A6 3.0T/BMW 535i) but it's even beating cars it has no business beating (C AMG, RS5, M3 coupe, CTS-V, M5 ).
So that makes it EVEN more impressive as it is no longer beating cars in its class ( like Audi A6 3.0T/BMW 535i) but it's even beating cars it has no business beating (C AMG, RS5, M3 coupe, CTS-V, M5 ).
The problem here is that the super sedans that you mention including the C AMG, M3 and RS5 are all handicapped by a V8.
In addition to that, they are also handicapped by the fact that the C Class AMG, M3 and RS5 are all midsized/compact, and in being smaller than the 3/4 sized sedans like the GS, the midsize/compacts are more upset by the extra weight of the V8.
Natnut, did you get a chance to drive the old 3GS V6 against the old 3GS V8?
Remember how the V8's have a really heavy nose?
So put it another way, if the C Class AMG, M3 and RS5 were all "hybrids", and wearing an extra 200 kg or 450 pounds for the two rear electric motors, and the rear NiMH battery, and you were to compare these hybrids to the GS350 F Sport, of course the three super sedans would be even more severely handicapped by the hybrid layout.
The fairest comparison against the three super sedans like the C Class AMG, M3 and RS5 V8's would be the existing Lexus IS-F V8, or the next generation IS-F V8, provided there is one.
It is fine to compare the GS350 F Sport against the M5 V10's and V8's, but we must be careful here, and even more careful if we compare the GS350 F Sport V6 to the trio of compact/midsize V8's in the C Class AMG, M3 and RS5....
12-10-12, 03:27 PM
#30
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The details
I recently traded in my e60 M5 for a AWD 2013 GS350. It was done at the behest of my wife, who now drives the GS, while I've been relegated to her old 2008 RX350.
While the e60 cost me an arm and a leg on 2 throttle actuators and a new clutch, I felt "special" every time I got into the dark cabin with black leather dash and suede leather overhead lining. This is especially working late at night, coming out at about 10-11 PM on a long project, and my car was the only one in the parking lot. The light came off the flame surfacing just right, making the car seemed to be moving forward while resting.
I must say that I am thoroughly disappointed with the GS! Here I will refrain from any reference to the V10, and simply point out the details from an end user perspective.
1. Key - The key was horribly thought out. The locking, unlock, trunk, and PANIC button all feels the same. This makes function selection while having the glove on in a cold day seems a bit tedious. Has anyone here triggered the panic button while trying to open the trunk? Can you confidently tell what you are doing while using the remote from inside your pocket?
2. Driver setting selection - While the e60's driver preference cannot be seen while driving (since it was on the outside of the seat), I can tell which I engaged by the contour of the buttons. Can you confidently tell which is 1-2-3 without turning the lights on?
3. Mouse - Take a lesson from BMW and get an idrive system. Think about safety! I know B comes after A, and thus I know approximately how far I need to turn the wheel. with a mouse, there is more hand eye coordination needed on to the screen. Bottom line, you have to spend more time looking at the screen.
4. Menu - no sub menus can be accessed from the main menu screen. While the icons line up behind the main categories, they cannot be accessed by moving horizontally then vertically. Idrive has quick keys. Even the older idrive can access different categories by holding the wheel in any of the 4 directions for 2-3 seconds. Hold up to access phone, down for media, left for air and right for map.
5. Nav - cannot be accessed while car is moving. I HATE THIS. The point of performance is to be a little adventurous some times. Sporty driving is inherently dangerous. So show that you dont trust me with Nav means that I probably can't tap the car to the fullest, reducing my confidence in the rest of the car.
6. Meta data - Album cover cannot be displayed in the nested screen on the right. What good is a huge screen if they can seem to use the real estate?
7. Map views - no perspective view, no google map (Audi), just plain old overhead, boring!
8. Voice recognition - terrible! Learn from Audi!
9. Blue and red lights on the dash - why do I need that? If I am doing 110mph, why would I bother with what color is my dash. If I wanted blue color, I would've bought a Prius.
10. Paddle - Why are the paddles so small? I can't use them. If they are not meant to be used, get rid of them. If they are meant to be used, make them bigger.
11. Clock - Why an analog clock? It takes time to read a clock, give me a digital readout on the main display. Kill all distractions in the cabin. I certainly don't need a lighted clock that doesn't even synch with on board time.
CONCLUSION: BMW seems to have done more with less cabin real estate. Things are better thought out from the first interaction. Menu systems are better, more modern. Color in the car are better integrated. With BMW there is only the menacing but focused orange. Lexus is alot of blue (screen) and black (trim), red and white (clock), just plain ugly.
I will be going back to BMW as they are innovator and actually trust the driver to do what he wants instead of Lexus who seemed to be a nanny that throws alot of decor but pretty messy under close scrutiny.
While the e60 cost me an arm and a leg on 2 throttle actuators and a new clutch, I felt "special" every time I got into the dark cabin with black leather dash and suede leather overhead lining. This is especially working late at night, coming out at about 10-11 PM on a long project, and my car was the only one in the parking lot. The light came off the flame surfacing just right, making the car seemed to be moving forward while resting.
I must say that I am thoroughly disappointed with the GS! Here I will refrain from any reference to the V10, and simply point out the details from an end user perspective.
1. Key - The key was horribly thought out. The locking, unlock, trunk, and PANIC button all feels the same. This makes function selection while having the glove on in a cold day seems a bit tedious. Has anyone here triggered the panic button while trying to open the trunk? Can you confidently tell what you are doing while using the remote from inside your pocket?
2. Driver setting selection - While the e60's driver preference cannot be seen while driving (since it was on the outside of the seat), I can tell which I engaged by the contour of the buttons. Can you confidently tell which is 1-2-3 without turning the lights on?
3. Mouse - Take a lesson from BMW and get an idrive system. Think about safety! I know B comes after A, and thus I know approximately how far I need to turn the wheel. with a mouse, there is more hand eye coordination needed on to the screen. Bottom line, you have to spend more time looking at the screen.
4. Menu - no sub menus can be accessed from the main menu screen. While the icons line up behind the main categories, they cannot be accessed by moving horizontally then vertically. Idrive has quick keys. Even the older idrive can access different categories by holding the wheel in any of the 4 directions for 2-3 seconds. Hold up to access phone, down for media, left for air and right for map.
5. Nav - cannot be accessed while car is moving. I HATE THIS. The point of performance is to be a little adventurous some times. Sporty driving is inherently dangerous. So show that you dont trust me with Nav means that I probably can't tap the car to the fullest, reducing my confidence in the rest of the car.
6. Meta data - Album cover cannot be displayed in the nested screen on the right. What good is a huge screen if they can seem to use the real estate?
7. Map views - no perspective view, no google map (Audi), just plain old overhead, boring!
8. Voice recognition - terrible! Learn from Audi!
9. Blue and red lights on the dash - why do I need that? If I am doing 110mph, why would I bother with what color is my dash. If I wanted blue color, I would've bought a Prius.
10. Paddle - Why are the paddles so small? I can't use them. If they are not meant to be used, get rid of them. If they are meant to be used, make them bigger.
11. Clock - Why an analog clock? It takes time to read a clock, give me a digital readout on the main display. Kill all distractions in the cabin. I certainly don't need a lighted clock that doesn't even synch with on board time.
CONCLUSION: BMW seems to have done more with less cabin real estate. Things are better thought out from the first interaction. Menu systems are better, more modern. Color in the car are better integrated. With BMW there is only the menacing but focused orange. Lexus is alot of blue (screen) and black (trim), red and white (clock), just plain ugly.
I will be going back to BMW as they are innovator and actually trust the driver to do what he wants instead of Lexus who seemed to be a nanny that throws alot of decor but pretty messy under close scrutiny.