F Sport vs Luxury
04-19-12, 12:55 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
F Sport vs Luxury
I am a long time Lexus fan & repeat buyer
In my region they are offering GS350 in 3 configurations: Luxury, F Sport & Basic
Luxury package comes with Dynamic Cruise, Attention Assist, Wood Steering, Large Screen
F Sport comes with DRS but no Dynamic Cruise or Attention Assist
I loved the drive of the F Sport & can definitely feel the contribution of the DRS in cornering but dont like the aluminum trim
However, I have always owned every Lexus with dynamic cruise whenever it was offered
I am more inclined towards the Luxury due to the interior but the dealer doesnt have a test drive car in Luxury version. I am afraid that buying the Luxury after test driving F Sport might lead to disappointment from Day 1?
By the way, in my region, it is not possible to order your own specs so I have to choose between these 2 configurations
In my region they are offering GS350 in 3 configurations: Luxury, F Sport & Basic
Luxury package comes with Dynamic Cruise, Attention Assist, Wood Steering, Large Screen
F Sport comes with DRS but no Dynamic Cruise or Attention Assist
I loved the drive of the F Sport & can definitely feel the contribution of the DRS in cornering but dont like the aluminum trim
However, I have always owned every Lexus with dynamic cruise whenever it was offered
I am more inclined towards the Luxury due to the interior but the dealer doesnt have a test drive car in Luxury version. I am afraid that buying the Luxury after test driving F Sport might lead to disappointment from Day 1?
By the way, in my region, it is not possible to order your own specs so I have to choose between these 2 configurations
04-19-12, 01:07 PM
#3
Hey, before I respond - I want to give you some perspective on what I test drove.
* Base (small screen, no AVS, 18" wheels) - drove similar to the others, but no options for the AVS, which I wanted. Also had some noticeable vibrations (very high frequency) on some roads. I said vibrations, not rattles. Nothing bad, but noticeable
* Luxury. (big screen, AVS, 18" wheels) Drove it and loved it. Vibrations gone, I presumed it was because of AVS. I ordered this model. THEN:
* F-Sport. Drove it while waiting for my Luxury. The vibrations are back though. And my guess is that although it has AVS (which I figured dampened the vibrations between Base and Luxury), the wheels are bigger and rubber is lower profile. I also think I may have too much air in the tires. I love it - but it does feel ever so slightly different than the Luxury.
My feeling is this:
* Find a luxury somewhere and test drive it. Don't buy a trim without test driving that exact trim
* The F-Sport is still a great car, but I wanted the luxury first. Mostly because of the features (rear window manual sunshades, rear seat climate controls, and some other niceties).
* However, I pursued the F-Sport because I could get it in two days. I love it and don't miss any of the features. And I actually am not regretting not having a white car (it's what I always get). I've rationalized the missing features, and the slight vibrations with this line of thinking (for better or for worse): I have a car that is sportier (even though they should technically handle the same, I attribute the bigger tires and vibrations to better handling), and looks more aggressive. Neither are things I wanted originally, but they make me happy.
Anyways, the coles notes is: Test drive whatever trim you're going to buy and don't buy blind. Regardless of what you buy, you'll love it. As long as you can rationalize the benefits and disadvantages of the trim you're getting.
M
* Base (small screen, no AVS, 18" wheels) - drove similar to the others, but no options for the AVS, which I wanted. Also had some noticeable vibrations (very high frequency) on some roads. I said vibrations, not rattles. Nothing bad, but noticeable
* Luxury. (big screen, AVS, 18" wheels) Drove it and loved it. Vibrations gone, I presumed it was because of AVS. I ordered this model. THEN:
* F-Sport. Drove it while waiting for my Luxury. The vibrations are back though. And my guess is that although it has AVS (which I figured dampened the vibrations between Base and Luxury), the wheels are bigger and rubber is lower profile. I also think I may have too much air in the tires. I love it - but it does feel ever so slightly different than the Luxury.
My feeling is this:
* Find a luxury somewhere and test drive it. Don't buy a trim without test driving that exact trim
* The F-Sport is still a great car, but I wanted the luxury first. Mostly because of the features (rear window manual sunshades, rear seat climate controls, and some other niceties).
* However, I pursued the F-Sport because I could get it in two days. I love it and don't miss any of the features. And I actually am not regretting not having a white car (it's what I always get). I've rationalized the missing features, and the slight vibrations with this line of thinking (for better or for worse): I have a car that is sportier (even though they should technically handle the same, I attribute the bigger tires and vibrations to better handling), and looks more aggressive. Neither are things I wanted originally, but they make me happy.
Anyways, the coles notes is: Test drive whatever trim you're going to buy and don't buy blind. Regardless of what you buy, you'll love it. As long as you can rationalize the benefits and disadvantages of the trim you're getting.
M
04-19-12, 02:09 PM
#4
Hear in the UK I have ordered a GS450h f sport, not arriving here until mid June.
I wanted the f sport because I prefer the front grill and the red interior, but will also miss some of the features in the luxury.
I have never owned a BMW nor particularly want one but at least you can buy a base car and add all the extras you want, I don’t understand why you can’t have anything you want in a Lexus, surely this would increase there profits.
I have also been told that it will be highly unlikely that I will be able to buy Lexus all weather mats when I pick the car up, why? Because they just wont have them, another loss of revenue by Lexus
I wanted the f sport because I prefer the front grill and the red interior, but will also miss some of the features in the luxury.
I have never owned a BMW nor particularly want one but at least you can buy a base car and add all the extras you want, I don’t understand why you can’t have anything you want in a Lexus, surely this would increase there profits.
I have also been told that it will be highly unlikely that I will be able to buy Lexus all weather mats when I pick the car up, why? Because they just wont have them, another loss of revenue by Lexus
04-19-12, 02:37 PM
#5
Hey, before I respond - I want to give you some perspective on what I test drove.
* Base (small screen, no AVS, 18" wheels) - drove similar to the others, but no options for the AVS, which I wanted. Also had some noticeable vibrations (very high frequency) on some roads. I said vibrations, not rattles. Nothing bad, but noticeable
* Luxury. (big screen, AVS, 18" wheels) Drove it and loved it. Vibrations gone, I presumed it was because of AVS. I ordered this model. THEN:
* F-Sport. Drove it while waiting for my Luxury. The vibrations are back though. And my guess is that although it has AVS (which I figured dampened the vibrations between Base and Luxury), the wheels are bigger and rubber is lower profile. I also think I may have too much air in the tires. I love it - but it does feel ever so slightly different than the Luxury.
My feeling is this:
* Find a luxury somewhere and test drive it. Don't buy a trim without test driving that exact trim
* The F-Sport is still a great car, but I wanted the luxury first. Mostly because of the features (rear window manual sunshades, rear seat climate controls, and some other niceties).
* However, I pursued the F-Sport because I could get it in two days. I love it and don't miss any of the features. And I actually am not regretting not having a white car (it's what I always get). I've rationalized the missing features, and the slight vibrations with this line of thinking (for better or for worse): I have a car that is sportier (even though they should technically handle the same, I attribute the bigger tires and vibrations to better handling), and looks more aggressive. Neither are things I wanted originally, but they make me happy.
Anyways, the coles notes is: Test drive whatever trim you're going to buy and don't buy blind. Regardless of what you buy, you'll love it. As long as you can rationalize the benefits and disadvantages of the trim you're getting.
M
* Base (small screen, no AVS, 18" wheels) - drove similar to the others, but no options for the AVS, which I wanted. Also had some noticeable vibrations (very high frequency) on some roads. I said vibrations, not rattles. Nothing bad, but noticeable
* Luxury. (big screen, AVS, 18" wheels) Drove it and loved it. Vibrations gone, I presumed it was because of AVS. I ordered this model. THEN:
* F-Sport. Drove it while waiting for my Luxury. The vibrations are back though. And my guess is that although it has AVS (which I figured dampened the vibrations between Base and Luxury), the wheels are bigger and rubber is lower profile. I also think I may have too much air in the tires. I love it - but it does feel ever so slightly different than the Luxury.
My feeling is this:
* Find a luxury somewhere and test drive it. Don't buy a trim without test driving that exact trim
* The F-Sport is still a great car, but I wanted the luxury first. Mostly because of the features (rear window manual sunshades, rear seat climate controls, and some other niceties).
* However, I pursued the F-Sport because I could get it in two days. I love it and don't miss any of the features. And I actually am not regretting not having a white car (it's what I always get). I've rationalized the missing features, and the slight vibrations with this line of thinking (for better or for worse): I have a car that is sportier (even though they should technically handle the same, I attribute the bigger tires and vibrations to better handling), and looks more aggressive. Neither are things I wanted originally, but they make me happy.
Anyways, the coles notes is: Test drive whatever trim you're going to buy and don't buy blind. Regardless of what you buy, you'll love it. As long as you can rationalize the benefits and disadvantages of the trim you're getting.
M
My 2008 BMW 335i coupe rides smoother on highways with the Michelin Exaltos a/s despite having a stiffer suspension. There are no choppiness or vibrations. The change from runflats to these non-runflats are substantial. The change from the Bridgestones to the Michelins on the F-Sport will settle the ride alot more. I know now that tires do make a HUGE difference and Michelins tend to be the best.
Last edited by Rexus300; 04-19-12 at 02:44 PM.
04-19-12, 03:09 PM
#6
Lexus Champion
I am currently driving a GS350 loaner awaiting the arrival of my new F Sport. I think it is a Base with lots of upgrades, like Nav, rear window shade, keyless entry, etc. I don't think it is a Luxury model because it doesn't have the Linear Espresso wood (which is a knockout, IMO).
I have been driving it pretty aggressively, and it doesn't hold corners at really high speeds the way my Audi S5 used to... or the way I am expecting my F Sport to... with the stiffer suspension and performance tires. I would definitely drive the Luxury model before deciding. It is competent, but not overly sporty.
BTW, I would have also been perfectly happy with the non- F Sport appearing if I could have gotten the Cabernet Interior and a more aggressive performance setup. I am going with the F Sport primarily for the driving experience.
I have been driving it pretty aggressively, and it doesn't hold corners at really high speeds the way my Audi S5 used to... or the way I am expecting my F Sport to... with the stiffer suspension and performance tires. I would definitely drive the Luxury model before deciding. It is competent, but not overly sporty.
BTW, I would have also been perfectly happy with the non- F Sport appearing if I could have gotten the Cabernet Interior and a more aggressive performance setup. I am going with the F Sport primarily for the driving experience.
04-19-12, 05:47 PM
#7
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I think you can custom order an F Sport with the color and options you want, but not the wood trim. You also have to wait for 3 months minimum.
You you think this will be a real keeper for a long time and don't want to compromise, then go order one with your exact spec.
If close enough is OK, I think you will like the Luxury models with 18 inch wheels. It is close to the F Sport without the slightly rougher ride for the best handling and luxurious look with wood trim.
You you think this will be a real keeper for a long time and don't want to compromise, then go order one with your exact spec.
If close enough is OK, I think you will like the Luxury models with 18 inch wheels. It is close to the F Sport without the slightly rougher ride for the best handling and luxurious look with wood trim.
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04-19-12, 06:05 PM
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I think you can custom order an F Sport with the color and options you want, but not the wood trim. You also have to wait for 3 months minimum.
You you think this will be a real keeper for a long time and don't want to compromise, then go order one with your exact spec.
If close enough is OK, I think you will like the Luxury models with 18 inch wheels. It is close to the F Sport without the slightly rougher ride for the best handling and luxurious look with wood trim.
You you think this will be a real keeper for a long time and don't want to compromise, then go order one with your exact spec.
If close enough is OK, I think you will like the Luxury models with 18 inch wheels. It is close to the F Sport without the slightly rougher ride for the best handling and luxurious look with wood trim.
04-19-12, 10:39 PM
#9
Pole Position
In Singapore and Japan, in addition to DRS, the F-sport also comes with VGRS that the Luxury trim doesn't have.In the F-sport, the VGRS works in combination with the DRS and AVS+ F-sport suspension tuning and the less intrusive VDIM to form the LDH(Lexus Dynamic handling).
In short, performance differences between F-sport RWD and Luxury RWD in Japan and Singapore at least :
DRS, VGRS, shocks/AVS tuned differently, less intrusive VDIM,larger 2-piece rotors(14 inch vs 13.1 inch)
I don't know whether VGRS is available for the Luxury trim in the US, perhaps one of the US owners can clarify?
All I know is that I drove the F-sport with all the performance goodies(except we use 18" wheels in Singapore) and it was magic in the corners. I later test drove the latest F30 BMW 335i-Sport with M-adaptive suspension, Sport suspension with 10mm lowering, sport auto 8 speed and 18 inch sport alloys and it felt less connected to the road and handled slightly worse in the corners! Both cars were driven in Sport+ mode.
Yes, the 200 pounds lighter, smaller 335i couldn't beat the F-sport GS with DRS. I'm still wondering about that since I'm a Lexus fan but did not expect the smaller 3 series to lose out to the GS.
Even Motor Trend's slalom testing bears out my subjective impression. Both pull the same 25.7s time on the Figure 8 slalom despite the 335i having a better power-to-weight ratio:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...5i_first_test/
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rt_first_test/
Let me go out on a limb and say this : As of now, the GS not only out-handles the F10 5 series, it also out-handles the F30 3 series in F-sport trim.
So my 2 cents : I would accept the trade-off in loss of luxury features any day and go for the F-sport but ONLY IF it came with DRS.
In short, performance differences between F-sport RWD and Luxury RWD in Japan and Singapore at least :
DRS, VGRS, shocks/AVS tuned differently, less intrusive VDIM,larger 2-piece rotors(14 inch vs 13.1 inch)
I don't know whether VGRS is available for the Luxury trim in the US, perhaps one of the US owners can clarify?
All I know is that I drove the F-sport with all the performance goodies(except we use 18" wheels in Singapore) and it was magic in the corners. I later test drove the latest F30 BMW 335i-Sport with M-adaptive suspension, Sport suspension with 10mm lowering, sport auto 8 speed and 18 inch sport alloys and it felt less connected to the road and handled slightly worse in the corners! Both cars were driven in Sport+ mode.
Yes, the 200 pounds lighter, smaller 335i couldn't beat the F-sport GS with DRS. I'm still wondering about that since I'm a Lexus fan but did not expect the smaller 3 series to lose out to the GS.
Even Motor Trend's slalom testing bears out my subjective impression. Both pull the same 25.7s time on the Figure 8 slalom despite the 335i having a better power-to-weight ratio:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...5i_first_test/
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rt_first_test/
Let me go out on a limb and say this : As of now, the GS not only out-handles the F10 5 series, it also out-handles the F30 3 series in F-sport trim.
So my 2 cents : I would accept the trade-off in loss of luxury features any day and go for the F-sport but ONLY IF it came with DRS.
Last edited by natnut; 04-20-12 at 02:09 AM.
04-19-12, 11:39 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
I would go with the F sport. In the end although the ride will be a little harsher, its still a Lexus . The F sport will be more exciting to drive, better looking, and in the end how often do you use dynamic cruise control . Just my 2 cents
04-20-12, 04:13 AM
#11
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Thanks for the quick feedback
- By the way the F sport here is only in RWD, no AWD option
- I really liked the cornering with the DRS
- I've had Porsche before so the F Sport is still much softer than vertebrate breaking Porsche 911 ride
I'm tilting more towards the F Sport now...
As a side note, I can mention that Toyota really likes to milk it customers in our market simply because they can! The prices are much higher than the US (not due to duties which are very low here) and the options are less. Night Vision, Lane Keep Assist, RWD are simply not possible to order.
I was at the dealership yesterday and had a long chat with them. I told them that as a long time Lexus customer I would like to see the brand do better. The car is launched since 2 months and I haven't seen a single GS on the road! Especially when it comes to the GS, it's an enthusiast car and buyers do their research on options, pricing comparison, etc. I told them you're ripping us off already on the price. Either make the price attractive to Merc / BMW buyers or...Fine - rip us off - but at least give us the complete suite of options like Lane keep Assist which are easily available in Mercedes!
Still, I will go back tomorrow and push them to locate a Luxury demo. Apparently they have "press" cars in Luxury version which are sitting some place but showroom people aren't allowed to touch them. Totally wrong strategy! Paying customers can't have a Luxury test drive and cars designated for press aren't being used for their intended purpose!
- By the way the F sport here is only in RWD, no AWD option
- I really liked the cornering with the DRS
- I've had Porsche before so the F Sport is still much softer than vertebrate breaking Porsche 911 ride
I'm tilting more towards the F Sport now...
As a side note, I can mention that Toyota really likes to milk it customers in our market simply because they can! The prices are much higher than the US (not due to duties which are very low here) and the options are less. Night Vision, Lane Keep Assist, RWD are simply not possible to order.
I was at the dealership yesterday and had a long chat with them. I told them that as a long time Lexus customer I would like to see the brand do better. The car is launched since 2 months and I haven't seen a single GS on the road! Especially when it comes to the GS, it's an enthusiast car and buyers do their research on options, pricing comparison, etc. I told them you're ripping us off already on the price. Either make the price attractive to Merc / BMW buyers or...Fine - rip us off - but at least give us the complete suite of options like Lane keep Assist which are easily available in Mercedes!
Still, I will go back tomorrow and push them to locate a Luxury demo. Apparently they have "press" cars in Luxury version which are sitting some place but showroom people aren't allowed to touch them. Totally wrong strategy! Paying customers can't have a Luxury test drive and cars designated for press aren't being used for their intended purpose!
04-20-12, 12:01 PM
#12
Pole Position
Here's 2 Australian car website reviews that compares the handling of the Luxury vs the F-sport(with DRS) :
http://www.caradvice.com.au/166510/l...w-gs250-gs350/
http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...h-review-29679
http://www.caradvice.com.au/166510/l...w-gs250-gs350/
Around the bends the GS feels just like a 5 Series. Stable, composed and determined. The main difference here is the rear steering system. The difference that a mere two degrees of turning angle for the rear wheels can make, is astounding. Lexus gave us the opportunity to drive the previous generation GS, a new GS with standard suspension, a new GS with variable suspension and the crème of the crop, a new GS with the lot, including rear steering, through an autocross course.
The result? Unbelievably better cornering feel with rear steering ticked. It initially feels as though the rear end is about to come loose to enter an oversteer situation, but it’s simply turning in. It feels like a totally different car, able to enter and exit corners at a much higher speed.
The result? Unbelievably better cornering feel with rear steering ticked. It initially feels as though the rear end is about to come loose to enter an oversteer situation, but it’s simply turning in. It feels like a totally different car, able to enter and exit corners at a much higher speed.
For the autocross we were able to pit the previous generation GS 300 against the GS 350 Luxury with steel suspension, GS 350 Sport Luxury with electronically variable suspension and a GS 350 F Sport with the whole box and dice, including dynamic rear steering. The course mapped out was a straight slalom followed by a short straight, wide hairpin and two swerve-and-avoid exercises.
It's plainly not the sort of motor sport event to which most Lexus GS owners will subject their cars, but it was instructive. The old GS 300 was imprecise and understeered at lower speeds in the slalom. Changing to the steel-sprung GS 350 produced an immediate gain, with the newer car skating around in a much more lively and precise way. It even seemed to offer better traction accelerating out of a turn. The migration to the variable damper setup produced better results again and the rear-steer-equipped car was dynamite.
DRS (Dynamic Rear-wheel Steering) helped turn the car in sooner and minimised understeer. Since the speed through the slalom was below 80km/h the car's rear wheels were counter-steering, turning the car through a tighter radius. If it provoked oversteer at any point, the VDIM 5 stability control stepped in and corrected the car's line. In all, the top-spec chassis of the GS 350 F Sport made the steel-sprung GS 350 look out of its depth in the same way that car showed up the old GS 300. In fairness to the basic GS 350, it didn't have the 19-inch alloys, the two-piece rotor brake upgrade, the Variable Gear Ratio Steering (VGRS) — or of course the DRS.
It's plainly not the sort of motor sport event to which most Lexus GS owners will subject their cars, but it was instructive. The old GS 300 was imprecise and understeered at lower speeds in the slalom. Changing to the steel-sprung GS 350 produced an immediate gain, with the newer car skating around in a much more lively and precise way. It even seemed to offer better traction accelerating out of a turn. The migration to the variable damper setup produced better results again and the rear-steer-equipped car was dynamite.
DRS (Dynamic Rear-wheel Steering) helped turn the car in sooner and minimised understeer. Since the speed through the slalom was below 80km/h the car's rear wheels were counter-steering, turning the car through a tighter radius. If it provoked oversteer at any point, the VDIM 5 stability control stepped in and corrected the car's line. In all, the top-spec chassis of the GS 350 F Sport made the steel-sprung GS 350 look out of its depth in the same way that car showed up the old GS 300. In fairness to the basic GS 350, it didn't have the 19-inch alloys, the two-piece rotor brake upgrade, the Variable Gear Ratio Steering (VGRS) — or of course the DRS.
04-20-12, 12:45 PM
#13
Lexus Champion
335i? In tax-heavy Singapore? Hmm.........I would've thought that Performance Motors would have brought in lower displacement models as their mass-market varints for the F30. You know, 320i, 318i, etc.
The COE has got to be high on that thing (and I guess Singapore has displacement taxes as well).
Anyways, our Philippine GS F-sport also gets:
-Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS)
-Electric Power Steering (EPS)
-Variable Gear Ratio Streering (VGRS)
-Dynamic Rear Streering (DRS)
In short: An entire alphabet soup to improve driveability and handling of the vehicle.
The only downside is here is our F-sport suffers the same fate like in Guam because for the Philippine market (dunno if it applies in Singapore as well), well..........our F-sport get these ugly-looking eyesores:
Hence with that said:
I wonder how much a set of these would cost (four tire with four wheel):
P.S.
Oh and nope, I'm not a fan of aftermarket wheels so no Vossen or Watanabe or whatever for me. Personal taste
The COE has got to be high on that thing (and I guess Singapore has displacement taxes as well).
Anyways, our Philippine GS F-sport also gets:
-Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS)
-Electric Power Steering (EPS)
-Variable Gear Ratio Streering (VGRS)
-Dynamic Rear Streering (DRS)
In short: An entire alphabet soup to improve driveability and handling of the vehicle.
The only downside is here is our F-sport suffers the same fate like in Guam because for the Philippine market (dunno if it applies in Singapore as well), well..........our F-sport get these ugly-looking eyesores:
Hence with that said:
I wonder how much a set of these would cost (four tire with four wheel):
P.S.
Oh and nope, I'm not a fan of aftermarket wheels so no Vossen or Watanabe or whatever for me. Personal taste
04-20-12, 01:32 PM
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The average person won't feel any difference with DRS. When I was selecting my F-Sport there was the one with DRS and one without.
I drove them both a lot. Unless your doing hard cornering or a slalom you can't tell the difference. I would skip DRS unless your a track man & who the heck would track this car?
I drove them both a lot. Unless your doing hard cornering or a slalom you can't tell the difference. I would skip DRS unless your a track man & who the heck would track this car?
